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Old 2007-02-15, 14:32   Link #21
astayanax
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It isn't surprising to start seeing more of Sasuke's true strength. Considering his goal (which right now is more important than Naruto's goal), he is going to need to be impossibly strong to defeat his brother who is arguably the 'ultimate' ninja in the series now with the 4th dead and the AL's powers unknown.

I am fairly curious as to how the series will go from here. The story needs to focus a bit on team Orochimaru whom for most parts were having appearances. It would be nice to see them joining the fight against Akatsuki although it would be for their own selfish reasons.

Still think Kakazu got killed retarded though; but I guess there is no more use arguing about it as both he and possibly Hidan are gone for good.
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Old 2007-02-15, 14:45   Link #22
chuckcsf
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
And, finally, we heard from Kakashi's mouth, that Naruto went above him. Glad to know that. If he continue to train using this method for a few weeks more, the doors to Hokage will surely open for him, and who knows, to our delightful surprise, maybe the next time he meets with Sasuke he will represent Konoha as the 6th Hokage.
I thought the 3 year time is up for Oro to take over Sauske's body or am I missing somthing?
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Old 2007-02-15, 14:52   Link #23
Sazelyt
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I thought the 3 year time is up for Oro to take over Sauske's body or am I missing somthing?
No, we haven't come there yet. There should still be a few months left from that amount. (2.5 years for training, maybe 1-2 months for the Gaara rescue arc, Sasuke scary arc and RasenShuriken arc).

Anyway, we know the jutsu is currently half complete, so until they meet it has to finish - so add a few weeks for that. And, in addition to training for that, Kakashi might teach a few more stuff to Naruto, including, maybe one of the first Sharingan captured techniques from Yondaime.
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Old 2007-02-15, 14:54   Link #24
astayanax
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Also, it isn't known for a fact if Orochimaru will attempt to take over Sasuke's body when the 3 years are up; just that the 3 years is the earliest it could happen.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:01   Link #25
Sazelyt
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
Also, it isn't known for a fact if Orochimaru will attempt to take over Sasuke's body when the 3 years are up; just that the 3 years is the earliest it could happen.
Oro is like Michael Douglas of the past (pre-Zeta Johns era). Unless he receives help, it is almost impossible for him to stop himself from doing what he was supposed to do (and, we know from the previous arc, Sasuke is more than ready for that).
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:13   Link #26
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Anyway, we know the jutsu is currently half complete, so until they meet it has to finish - so add a few weeks for that. And, in addition to training for that, Kakashi might teach a few more stuff to Naruto, including, maybe one of the first Sharingan captured techniques from Yondaime.
I didnít quite get you with this quote.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:16   Link #27
Luminion Lancer
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...

-Well now, this is probably the very first chapter in which Naruto looked so depleted of energy that he could only muster a few words. While I certainly didn't mind this chapter at all it felt, to be blunt odd, especially Shikamaru's behaviour (that big toothy grin just doesn't fit him). Then again, not all chapters can be about blood, guts and glory.

-So Kurenai really was pregnant. Heh, way to drop the bomb on us Kishimoto. The King reference is about the future generation, rather than individual people. It makes sense though. After all, what do peole fight for most of the time? That's right, it is to assure that there is a tomorrow.

-Now then, what will happen from this point forward I wonder?
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:18   Link #28
shankss
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So I take it we will never find out how Hidan got to be immortal?
only explanation to that: jashinism gives you immortality if you keep believing it.He may still alive in that grave..it would be great (and a little scary) if he turns back to haunt shikamaru in future eposides
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:20   Link #29
Sazelyt
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I didn’t quite get you with this quote.
Yondaime was alive after Sharingan was implanted on Kakashi. So, it is possible that the first technique Kakashi copied would be the technique that made Yondaime the Yellow Flash.

Considering the importance of that teleporting technique to Naruto's Rasengan Shuriken, and Naruto's highly advanced use of clones in reaching the opponent, and creating a diversion to plant that seal, that technique would be a really good match for Naruto.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:30   Link #30
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by astayanax View Post
which right now is more important than Naruto's goal
Well, i think he can succeed only if Naruto saves him, which means Naruto goal is the way to achieve Sasuke's goal. It's just that Sasuke does not know and understand that. Or maybe I should say that Sasuke does not have a true goal in life now, he has become more like Orochimaru's tool, and his goal has become a part of Oro's goal, as we know Oro's goal is to destroy the whole akatsuki, while Sasuke's goal is just Itachi. But the main point is that Sasuke will not live to see the moment when Orochimaru kills Itachi using his body, being dead before achieving your goal is hardly achieving your goal.
Which most likely will never happen, so Sasuke's present goal will never be achieved. I'm sure that if Naruto somehow saves Sasuke than Sasuke's goal will be changed to the real ultimate goal: kill Itachi to save Naruto.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:33   Link #31
MysticNinjaJay
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This chapter was a bit weak.

I'm disappointed in how easily Kakuzu and Hidan were killed.

I know Naruto got his super awesome jutsu but for an elite ninja to be killed by such a simple trick is pathetic.

I guess Naruto's generation had to step up and be ninja at some point but it was rather anti-climatic.

Hidan's abilities were never revealed and he was an interesting character.

Naruto surpassing Kakashi is very unconvincing.

The only good part is the heart warming scene between Kurenai and Shikamaru.

One thing I find odd is that Oro is still training Sasuke when Sasuke has accepted that the only way he can defeat his brother is to give up his body. So what is the point of trying to toughen him up?

I hope we see better character development with the Akatsuki as while these two were cool their contribution to the story was subpar.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:44   Link #32
Sazelyt
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Hidan's abilities were never revealed and he was an interesting character.
I don't know how interesting he is, but he was a nominee for the stupidest character in the story among all characters. And, he still revealed more than what Asuma was allowed to. Although, at this point I think it is pretty clear that both Kakuzu and Hidan showed all they have.

Quote:
I know Naruto got his super awesome jutsu but for an elite ninja to be killed by such a simple trick is pathetic.
If Itachi uses super speed to use a jutsu, and achieves success, would that make Itachi great, or make the opponent idiot because of losing to such a simple trick that only involves high speed? Even Kakashi complimented Naruto regarding his speed (of thinking, of action, etc.)

Quote:
Naruto surpassing Kakashi is very unconvincing.
If achieving something even Yondaime couldn't able to succeed was unconvincing, then it is really impossible to find something to make someone convincing.

Quote:
One thing I find odd is that Oro is still training Sasuke when Sasuke has accepted that the only way he can defeat his brother is to give up his body. So what is the point of trying to toughen him up?
As you might know that the 3 years period is not over yet, so, what do you expect them to do, go to Hawai beaches and ejoy the sunlight instead of training?
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:49   Link #33
gibits
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Naruto and Shika, more or less solo'd, a member Akastuki, both of them are no pushovers. Need i remind you that Itachi is also a member of said group. Yet all everyone can say is that Sasuke is still better than Naruto. So what if Sasuke beat a bunch of nobodies? I can kill 1 million ants (big black ones) but you would never say I was stronger than Naruto for that right (well and the fact that Naruto is fictional)?
Kind of odd if you ask me. Both Naruto and Shika were under no handicaps and their oppenents were very strong, whether they were equal to Itachi is beside the point, since the comparision is between Naruto+Shika and Sasuke.

Sure Sasuke looked cool, that's what he was created for, to be Naruto's foil. I just don't understand how Sasuke shows up in one frame and everyone doubts the good guys' strength.
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Old 2007-02-15, 15:55   Link #34
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
If Itachi uses super speed to use a jutsu, and achieves success, would that make Itachi great, or make the opponent idiot because of losing to such a simple trick that only involves high speed? Even Kakashi complimented Naruto regarding his speed (of thinking, of action, etc.)
That would make Itachi a lot faster than His Opponent. in the same case, Shikamaru with his incredible tactic defeating an opponent, would that make Shika great, or his Opponent an Idiot to loose to such Complex tricks.....Ahhhhhhhhh!

Quote:
If achieving something even Yondaime couldn't able to succeed was unconvincing, then it is really impossible to find something to make someone convincing.
I agree with Shurkiken, Just because Naruto could learn a Jutsu Yondaime couldn’t develop, (as it seems mainly because Naruto in the only one with the Chakra needed to pull it off), is not convincing enough to say he surpassed Kakashi.
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Old 2007-02-15, 16:02   Link #35
Sazelyt
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That would make Itachi a lot faster than His Opponent. in the same case, Shikamaru with his incredible tactic defeating an opponent, would that make Shika great, or his Opponent an Idiot to loose to such Complex tricks.....Ahhhhhhhhh!
Well, maybe Naruto, with his Kyuubi chakra, was also a lot faster than his opponent at that last minute not letting Kakuzu do anything at all to defend himself. Would that make Kakuzu stupid, or Naruto good?

Quote:
I agree with Shurkiken, Just because Naruto could learn a Jutsu Yondaime couldn’t develop, (as it seems mainly because Naruto in the only one with the Chakra needed to pull it off), is not convincing enough to say he surpassed Kakashi.
You are missing the main point here.

It is not only the jutsu, it is everything involving with the development of that jutsu, starting with effective use of Kyuubi chakra, mastering an elemental which would open the door to learn other ones, developing his body to overcome the limits required for that jutsu, achieving years of experience during the development of that jutsu.

Repeating myself once again, it is not only the jutsu itself, but it is everything related to the jutsu.
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Old 2007-02-15, 16:03   Link #36
gibits
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This chapter was a bit weak.

I'm disappointed in how easily Kakuzu and Hidan were killed.
Hidan killed Asuma, and Kakuzu was owning Kakashi, so I would not call it an "easy win".
Quote:
I know Naruto got his super awesome jutsu but for an elite ninja to be killed by such a simple trick is pathetic.

I guess Naruto's generation had to step up and be ninja at some point but it was rather anti-climatic.
I've said this 3 times already, its the oldest trick in the book for a reason. This is what Naruto does, its what ninjas do. It would've out of character for Naruto to do otherwise.

Quote:
Hidan's abilities were never revealed and he was an interesting character.
Hidan was one of the dullest characters yet. He was a one trick pony and that's it. Sasori was an interesting character with diabolic puppets and tragic past. Itachi is sourded in mystery and massacre. DD is ambiguously gay and has mouths on his hand (great for auto-fellatio). Those are interesting people. Hidan had a cool design with the greaser hair-do and scythe but he really was not interesting at all.

Quote:
Naruto surpassing Kakashi is very unconvincing.
Did you see Kakuzu manhandling Kakashi? Yet Naruto was able to beat him with ease, I'd say that was convincing. Face it, you're a hater.

Quote:
One thing I find odd is that Oro is still training Sasuke when Sasuke has accepted that the only way he can defeat his brother is to give up his body. So what is the point of trying to toughen him up?
I never understood that either, my reasoning is that it gives Sasuke something to do, so he won't leave. There really is no reason for Oro to train him other than for plot purposes.
I hope we see better character development with the Akatsuki as while these two were cool their contribution to the story was subpar.[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
I agree with Shurkiken, Just because Naruto could learn a Jutsu Yondaime couldnít develop, (as it seems mainly because Naruto in the only one with the Chakra needed to pull it off), is not convincing enough to say he surpassed Kakashi.
How about Naruto beat Kakuzu single-handed while Kakashi was getting owned? Would that convince you? Because that's what happened.

I would like to know why when one character, like Shika or Sasuke does something everyone gives them due credit. But when Naruto comes around and does the same thing (sometimes better) people give doubt him? Is it because you expect more from the main character? Are you a hater?

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-15 at 18:23. Reason: Don't double post
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Old 2007-02-15, 16:13   Link #37
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Well, maybe Naruto, with his Kyuubi chakra, was also a lot faster than his opponent at that last minute not letting Kakuzu do anything at all to defend himself. Would that make Kakuzu stupid, or Naruto good?

You are missing the main point here.

It is not only the jutsu, it is everything involving with the development of that jutsu, starting with effective use of Kyuubi chakra, mastering an elemental which would open the door to learn other ones, developing his body to overcome the limits required for that jutsu, achieving years of experience during the development of that jutsu.

Repeating myself once again, it is not only the jutsu itself, but it is everything related to the jutsu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits
How about Naruto beat Kakuzu single-handed while Kakashi was getting owned? Would that convince you? Because that's what happened.

I would like to know why when one character, like Shika or Sasuke does something everyone gives them due credit. But when Naruto comes around and does the same thing (sometimes better) people give doubt him? Is it because you expect more from the main character? Are you a hater?
EDIT: Never mind, I dont want to be seen as a Naruto hater just because i view things differently and dont want to have again long debates about it either, I still not convinced about Naruto Surpassing Kakshi, but I guess thats the theme of this chapter: the New Replaces the old.

And nope Im not a hater.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-02-15 at 17:29.
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Old 2007-02-15, 17:51   Link #38
Sazelyt
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Well, The "Maybe" is not the fact, So You don’t know how fast Naruto movements was for Kakuuzu, not to mention, the Jutus could connect because of the trick, and not because Naruto speed.
Actually, it might be a fact: "Kakashi: He came up with a new strategy to ensure the jutsu would hit after the first attempt failed, and he did it so fast"...

Quote:
But you said: “If achieving something even Yondaime couldn't able to succeed was unconvincing, then it is really impossible to find something to make someone convincing.”

You talked about the Jutsus, I say that’s not enough, To this point, he has not shown he has surpassed Kakashi, he just created a bigger Jutsu and relied on the same trick he always has. But we have to take it at face value what Kakashi say, but, I just say its unconvincing still.
Now, that you see what I was mainly referring to, I guess the confusion was cleared.

And, despite what I was referring to, it seems you still do not find it convincing. Well, the fact is he is, as Kakashi already said. He over-powered Kakuzu, destroyed two of his hearts and make the other one unstable in just one attack (that combined, strength, intelligence, speed, etc.). And, considering what he has acheived so far in addition to having at least double the non-Kyuubi based chakra capacity of Kakashi, for me it is convincing enough.

Quote:
In the same manner Naruto Made a Jutsu only Yondaime, Kakashi and Jiraiya could do – Rasengan-, this however didn’t meant he in that moment had surpassed the remaining Shinoby population, including Tsunade.
There is quite a big difference there. The first is copying, the second one is creating. Copying took 1 month of Naruto (and maybe a few days for Kakashi), creating took 3 years of Yondaime. Usually, being able to reach to the level of creating such a powerful jutsu means there is something going on with the creator (either received god's help through a miracle or accumulated enough experience and strength to overcome the barrier of creating such a jutsu).

Quote:
Not when a character beats another because of Plot Induced stupidity.
Imagine it this way, and please answer the question accordingly. If Naruto's speed of execution has completely surpassed Kakuzu's speed (action/reaction) at that moment, similar to Itachi vs. Kakashi, would that still make it a plot induced stupidity?


EDIT: @Rurik: Sorry, while I was trying to post this message successfully, I missed your edit.
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Old 2007-02-15, 17:59   Link #39
Syaoran
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Can I post now? I was blocked a while ago (something with whitelisting domain)
--> OK

So, I wanted to ask about this weeks illustration. It was done in 30 minutes as I didn't want to spend more time for it.
Do you think it's ok if I deliver that kind of stuff and once in a while a good one?
If you prefer, I can do fast pencil ones or no illustration at all if it's going to be crap like this week's ( I'm not impressed by it ^^' )
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Old 2007-02-15, 18:06   Link #40
Uh_huh
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Naruto does not surpass Kakashi. Naruto has an overwhelming ninjutsu, but he hardly can be compared to Kakashi who is more talented in taijutsu and genjutsu (as well as ninjutsu). Basically, if Naruto cannot land his jutsu against other members of the Akatsuki, he could be killed.

I am not saying that Naruto is weak, or that he has not grown. It is just that his growth was limited, in comparison to Saskue's, for example. Naruto has so far gained an overpowered jutsu and is a bit more crafty (and mature?) whereas, many would speculate, Saskue has greatly enhanced all of his skills.

It was disappointing how Hidan, a potentially unique character, turned out to be such a failure. Same would go with Kakuzu, there was a lot of potential but they were killed off prematurely. They were sheep to the slaughter house to further emphasize Shikamaru and Naruto I suppose.
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