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Old 2004-01-26, 17:20   Link #1
Ditchdigger
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Fandubs: "If Done Seriously?"

On the main page, it says "If done seriously, AnimeSuki may change it's listing policy to also include the listing of fandubs." Does that mean AnimeSuki will only list serious fandubs and not fandub parodies? (Those parodies can be REALLY hilarious! ^_^) Or does it just mean it won't list half-assed fandub attempts?

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Old 2004-01-26, 17:30   Link #2
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditchdigger
On the main page, it says "If done seriously, AnimeSuki may change it's listing policy to also include the listing of fandubs." Does that mean AnimeSuki will only list serious fandubs and not fandub parodies? (Those parodies can be REALLY hilarious! ^_^) Or does it just mean it won't list half-assed fandub attempts?

--Ditchdigger

I would like to know who will be the judge of weather it's good or not. But then i am against animesuki listing dubs of any kind.
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:36   Link #3
Forse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingRanger
I would like to know who will be the judge of weather it's good or not. But then i am against animesuki listing dubs of any kind.
Parody dubs are actually REALLY nice, but yeah it may cause a lot of confusion...
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:46   Link #4
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I see nothing wrong with fandubs. Since they are harder to do then fansubs there most likely won't be very many.

Animesuki does not allow parody subs so why would they allow parody dubs?
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:48   Link #5
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAppi
I see nothing wrong with fandubs. Since they are harder to do then fansubs there most likely won't be very many.

Animesuki does not allow parody subs so why would they allow parody dubs?

I see people saying that alot. Can you tell me how fandubs are harder? The one thing about fandubs is getting people to act and show emotion.
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:50   Link #6
NoSanninWa
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I won't get many chances to say this, so here goes: JAppi is exactly right. Both sentences even.

Fan dubs are harder because it requires them to find actors for each and every part who have the right kind of voice. They also have to be able to act, at least a little. It is much more time consuming and requires many more people.
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:56   Link #7
DekaMaster
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
I won't get many chances to say this, so here goes: JAppi is exactly right.

Fan dubs are harder because it requires them to find actors for each and every part who have the right kind of voice. They also have to be able to act, at least a little. It is much more time consuming and requires many more people.

Show me a fandub that has actors who have the right voce for each part. It takes auditions and money to get good actors for Professional dubs. Fandubs I have seen are popularity contests. Who can yell the loudest to get the part. I am not going to get into which one I am talking about but the newest fandub out there,listen to the voices for some of the characters one of them sounds like a person who just woke up from a 10 hour nap and started talking for the voice of a character that should be very upbeat. And when you do a dub it's a good idea to make sure you are saying the names and words right. Like it a T is silent in a name you should not be pronouncing it.
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Old 2004-01-26, 20:31   Link #8
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I'm not sure why anyone would be so oposed to animesuki deciding to list fandubs, since the only people who are affected by this decission are the ones who want to watch fandubs.

Plus I think dubs would also be harder for the reasons NoSanninWa said, plus you still need to find a translator, or get permission from existing groups to use their subs (I'm guessing most would say no).
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Old 2004-01-26, 20:45   Link #9
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Fandubs are MUCH harder to do properly.

Basically, it is just as hard as doing a fansub (translation, timing, raw finding, encoding) PLUS....

1. Translation more difficult since you need to attempt to lip-synch.
2. Upwards of 20 people normally needed for voices.
3. No recording studio, so people record their parts separately, on different systems, causing massive cooridination issues.
4. Gigantic ego problems involved with choosing people's roles.
5. Sound editing: Since you don't have access to the original voice tracks, and can't in general delete the original voices off the soundtrack, it is normally required to REMIX the audio of the entire show using a soundtrack album, and readding/creating sound effects.

All these things add up to a huge coordination problem. That's why a lot of fandub projects start, and NEVER finish.
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Old 2004-01-26, 20:49   Link #10
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I can't see "serious" fandubs as taking a lot of resources away from what is already going on here, so I don't see a problem. There won't be that many, judging by how many ever have been done.

I have no interest in parody "translations" of anything. There is plenty of comedy and humor (parody even) in anime spread across enough titles to reward proper translations. Parodies merely replace the work of professional writers with that of amateurs. There are already fanfics and the like for the amateurs.

Last edited by babbito2k; 2004-01-26 at 20:50. Reason: speling ^_^;;;
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Old 2004-01-27, 18:39   Link #11
The Xenos
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Well, I got the Naruto fandub and it wasn't bad. I applaud the fans who made it. Clearly it's no substitute for fansubs, but I think it can be a nice thing everyonce in a while. Sure it's amateurish, but considering their limited resources, it's pretty good. The serious fandubs like the Naruto one I think are admariable and deserve a spot here.

As for the Naurto one itself, I enjoyed watching it dubbed. Naurto seemed a bit too subduded, but not bad. The teacher sounded really good. I really would love to see one for One Piece and maybe some other series. I see this working best for shonen action like these anyway.

These fandubs aren't much different from fansubs. They're putting serious work and time into translating, and now dubbing, the shows they love into English. Plus, yeah, I doubt too many people have time to make these. So.. I think they're a very welcome sight at Anime Suki.

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Old 2004-01-28, 01:17   Link #12
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My problem with fandubs is that they're generally outright terrible. I've had to sit through some wretched ones before. The acting talent is the worst, as it's not actually anyone with acting talent, just whoever's going to volunteer for it. I did download the PGSM dub, but I'm skeptical, especially if anything about the show has been changed as is prone to happen in these projects. I mean, they already mistranslated the ENGLISH name of the series, how can I help but be skeptical?

I also wonder about the legality issue. It seems shakier when you're actually producing your own English language production of a series, especially when you go so far as to re-write and re-score the series without any permission from the creators.
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Old 2004-01-28, 03:22   Link #13
ato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
I've had to sit through some wretched ones before.
Wow, someone actually forces you to watch fandubs? What an intricate form of torture! How do they pin your eyelids open? I always wondered about that part...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
I also wonder about the legality issue.
Nothing to wonder about - It's illegal. But then, fansubbing us just as illegal, so I don't see where you are going with this argument.

I seriously have no objection to non-parody fandubs, as long as they are clearly marked so the dub-haters can easily avoid them. As has been said before in this thread, the amount of work in fandubbing is just staggering, and I therefore doubt that those releases will crowd out ye olde fansubbes.

Here's to hoping the Desolate Sailors manage to struggle through the whole series
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Old 2004-01-28, 12:40   Link #14
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Originally Posted by ato
Wow, someone actually forces you to watch fandubs? What an intricate form of torture! How do they pin your eyelids open? I always wondered about that part...
I'd knock you for the figure of speech, but then I'm guilty of this too...

Quote:
Nothing to wonder about - It's illegal. But then, fansubbing us just as illegal, so I don't see where you are going with this argument.
For the reasons I've already given, and here's another - the purpose of the fansub is exposure. The purpose of a fandub, from what I've seen, is to be a surrogate English dub. Since it actually involves re-editing the series to add the voices and whatever else may be added, I would think this may be tolerated far less than people putting words on the screen to aid in understanding the original product.

Quote:
I seriously have no objection to non-parody fandubs, as long as they are clearly marked so the dub-haters can easily avoid them. As has been said before in this thread, the amount of work in fandubbing is just staggering, and I therefore doubt that those releases will crowd out ye olde fansubbes.

Here's to hoping the Desolate Sailors manage to struggle through the whole series
The work may be there, but, the quality ain't>_< There;s a reason professional dubs sound good, even when I'll admit that I hate them. But that's fairly off-topic for this thread anyway.
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Old 2004-01-28, 13:34   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
There;s a reason professional dubs sound good
No, you are wrong. They sound just as bad as the fandubs. The only difference is that the studios have expensive equipment that the fandubbers do not.

These fandubs are on par with most so called "professtional" dubs.
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Old 2004-01-28, 17:51   Link #16
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Originally Posted by JAppi
No, you are wrong. They sound just as bad as the fandubs. The only difference is that the studios have expensive equipment that the fandubbers do not.

These fandubs are on par with most so called "professtional" dubs.
Have you watched a dub in recent years? I've noticed a very strange ignorance of more recent anime dubs in this particular community, such as that all dubs are censored and poorly done. And I'm not talking about the low-budget kiddie dubs like Yu-Gi-Oh. Try Cowboy Bebop. Try Spirited Away. Hell, just rent a Region 1 DVD and try to tell me that well-respected companies like Geneon, ADVision, and even Viz are putting out dubs as poor as the average fandub. I'm someone who'll take a sub over a dub any day, but have found myself grudgingly admitting that many, many recent dubs captured the characters and emotions of the story on approaching level of the Japanese actors. In the case of Cowboy Bebop, you'll actually find sections of fandom who think the dub is better.

Now, take a fandub. Your casting consists of random people who've never had any experience with acting in general, let alone working solely with their voices, sending in clips. You don't get to go to, say, the William Morris agency and listen to their catalog of actors - you get to pick from the people who send clips in and try to pick from those. Then you've got to use whatever cheap software you can, in addition to only a raw tape for mixing, as opposed to having access to the original masters which will have the dialogue track separate in the first place. If you're lucky, the series you're trying to dub will have a soundtrack you can rip from. If not, you get the Sailor Moon dub, which is full of akward silences whenever they couldn't get the music for the sequence. Actually, since the Sailor Moon project was what I was talking about...that has it's own unique problem in that these are live actors being dubbed. Voice synching live actors who were already speaking another language is notoriously hard. Thus there's the wretched "Godzilla effect", where the voices are so unnaturally dubbed in that it's impossible to believe that the voices you're hearing are naturally spoken by the people you're watching.

No, the amount of effort or the fact that "Oh, but this is there first project!" does not excuse the sub-par product that results.
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Old 2004-01-28, 18:07   Link #17
JAppi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
Have you watched a dub in recent years?
.hack//sign, Excel Saga, His and Her Circumstances, MXC, FFX, FFX-2 had incredibly awful dubs. Those aren't recent enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
In the case of Cowboy Bebop, you'll actually find sections of fandom who think the dub is better.
And there is a huge massive part of the fandom that loves Naruto and DBZ.
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Old 2004-01-29, 00:40   Link #18
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Originally Posted by JAppi
.hack//sign, Excel Saga, His and Her Circumstances, MXC, FFX, FFX-2 had incredibly awful dubs. Those aren't recent enough for you?
Both .hack//sign and the game series were fairly bad, yes, but I've heard worse (and I'm talking late 80's dubbing here!). And even then, they don't approach the lack of quality from the fandub. I'm amazed you'd put FFX and X-2 into those categories - it wasn't until FFX came out that I was convinced a game could be competently dubbed (especially considering how terrible Xenogears came out). X-2 was even better, mostly because Yuna's actress had significantly improved. But if we want to bring up games, how about Xenosaga? Lunar: Silver Star and Eternal Blue? Kingdom Hearts? I mean, they actually got Lance Bass to sound good as Sephiroth, and I consider that a superhuman feat. Of course, I generally go lighter on game dubs anyway simply because they are aimed at a much wider audience. I still play bi-lingual games with the Japanese track and subs on.

Can't comment on Excel Saga or His and Her Circumstances, having not seen them, but I have a hard time buying them to be as bad as, say, Voltron, or the Project A-ko series. And they are STILL leagues ahead of the amateurish productions that compose the fandub. I'm already someone who's had to grudingly admit that not all dubs suck, and it's only because of pleasant surprises. It's going to have to be one hell of a fandub to even approach at the professional quality of a bad normal dub.

Quote:
And there is a huge massive part of the fandom that loves Naruto and DBZ.
That's entirely irrelevant to the discussion on dubs. They are notoriously unpopular, and because of bad precedents set over the last decade have continued on that way. It's a shame that at a time when the dub tracks are finally starting to excel that people are still holding old grudges.
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Old 2004-01-29, 07:20   Link #19
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Well, most people don't usually like the english dub if they've heard the Orginal dub. Most people have gotten used to orginal japanese dialouge. I admit I watced Fruits Basket at first with the english dubs and liked it. Then when I was watching it with the sub and flipped back to the english it sounded hideous to me.

When I said that it was "On par with so called 'professional dubs'" I meant that I actually liked the naruto fandub. The only part that really bugged me was their pathetic recording equipment.
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Old 2004-01-29, 17:46   Link #20
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I think people here are missing an important point in this discussion....

For the most part, fansubbing groups do what they do to better help popularize and share anime series with other like-minded people. And perhaps a bit of fame and respect.

FanDubbing groups, on the other hand, have motivation that is more like that of cosplayers. They do it to, in some small way, to make themselves a part of the show that they love. And probably also for a bit of fame and respect (though that's rarely given).

One can definitely argue that fansubbing provides, in some respects, a replacement for professional subtitling. But trying to argue that the fandubbers are trying to replace professional dubs just doesn't fit with the motivation behind the groups.
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