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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10 88 59.06%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 27.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 3.36%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.34%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-02-24, 13:49   Link #101
DanielSong39
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Yuuichi can redeem himself by doing his best to support Nayuki and Akiko; deep down, he knows that they are more important than some girl he met 7 years ago and dated for a few days.

But I agree; if he ditches them to pursue Ayu, he really is a terrible person.

The previews aren't promising, but I'll give KyoAni the benefit of the doubt until episode 22 actually comes out. I refuse to believe that they'll make such a horrendous mistake.
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Old 2007-02-24, 14:27   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
I beg to differ, my friend. In the original visual novel, I only know how bad Akiko-san's condition was when I read from the text "Akiko-san got hit by a car", on the contrary, the way Kyo-Ani portrayed how brutally real the crash was had a greater impact on me than what mere text would reveal.

The demons are invisible, fantasy, out-of-this-world, the car accident is real and could happen to anyone. So even if they did show the demons mangling poor Sayuri-san's body, the impact on the audience would be "oh my goodness" at best, but most likely not "OH SHIT" from seeing a car accident. Kyo-Ani got the reaction it intended from (most of) the audience with such a brutal depiction. Just my humble opinion.
Fine fine, I purposely hit the trigger because I wanted to hear detailed opinions on why this scene is so appreciated, (KyoAni bias being aside) since clearly I don't feel the same.
I've read some pretty good opinions on the answers and especially your, Kinny. The comparison between cars (human world) and and demons (fantasy) was well fitting.

My position will unlikely change but surely when I'll have to handle with this scene again, I'll have several more useful point of views to see through the shades of it.
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Old 2007-02-24, 14:31   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Wait a minute.......no gutter-vote from the resident gutter-voter this time round?!

To quote Yuuichi: "Yume ka?" (Is this a dream?)

And anyway, seems like there's been quite enough grieving over Akiko already, so let me see if I can draw peoples' attentions away from that with some other observations of my own:

Earlier on, I posted a couple of points:



3) Anyone find it a little off that the Minase mother-daughter pair......how should I put it? It's like they didn't even think that Ayu was missing; it's like they thought she "went home" or something, if you get my meaning. There are a couple of explanations for that that I can think of;

- They thought Ayu went home because, indeed, Yuuichi lied to them and told them that she "went home". Kind of like how Yuuichi told Ayu in Episode 11 that Makoto "went home", you know what I'm saying?
- They actually knew this was coming somehow, but they opted not to ask too much since Yuuichi looked like his back will break if he took another straw to it. This implies that they know more about Ayu then they're letting on, and they've still not let on everything they know yet...

On that note, even Yuuichi himself isn't freaking out as badly as I was expecting him to, at least not yet.

Spoiler for a possible spoiler for the next episode, so you've been warned!!!:


4) Take a look at 17:26-17:30. Now try to recall all the way back to Episode 2. Looks like Yuuichi isn't the only one in the Minase clan with a fetish for "doing" someone who's deep asleep.

5) "The Scene" still remains as shocking as ever on a second viewing, but on that same second viewing, I got hit pretty badly with a sense of deja vu, which blunted the shock somewhat.

Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

Spoiler for answer to the riddle:


Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire.

6) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 1: In Toei, it was Shota Yuuichi who came up with all the ideas for the "school". In KyoAni, it was Loli Ayu who was the source of all the wild ideas. Hmmm......anyone can corroborate on which way was it done in the game?

7) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 2: "Boku wa Ascaloth no baka". I failed to notice this point until now. Earlier on, there has been some discussion on the apparent scarcity of [i]keitais[/u] (mobile phones/cellphones, whichever way you swing) in the KyoAni Kanon-verse. After the second viewing, I suddenly remembered that "The Scene" was dealt with in Toei Kanon's 12th episode.....and just before that, Akiko actually pulled out a keitai when Nayuki called her. And not just any keitai, but one that had the "Minase Clan + Makoto" sticker photo pasted on it.

As of this point, still no keitai visible in the KyoAni adaptation.

8) Also, I've noticed that there were plenty of times, even before this episode, when Nayuki simply doesn't seem to see Piro whenever Yuuichi isn't around to stop her. She only gets her cutegasms when Yuuichi is around to keep Piro away from her. Huh?!

9) Another point; Yuuichi was perfectly happy to carry a totally unrelated girl (Ayu) from his own room, through the corridors to her own room.....but he's so squeamish about his own blood-related cousin (Nayuki), that he's equally happy to leave her lying on the floor, with only a blanket?!

That's just heartless......unless the wooden floor of the Minase mansion is warmer and more comfortable than I thought.....

10) BLOOPER CATCH!!!! Look at 11:31-11:33. If Ayu is a southpaw....why did she extend her right hand first this time?!

Unless it's yet another form of KyoAni's highly subtle symbolism.....

11) 18:10-18:13, Nayuki asks Yuuichi if he would disappear as well. A hint of things to come?

Spoiler for the veterans ONLY!!!:
5) I dont see what's wrong with that, besides it wasn't even close to similar in terms of purpose. Kyon's = Shock due to wtf, while Nayuki's apparently shows fear.

6) Ayu's suppose to be the one who came up with the school idea.

9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......

10) Recall from ep01, Ayu initially starts with left hand, but tries to use her right hand instead since it is the proper way. So considering that, its nothing wrong about Ayu getting used to extending her right hand to U1.
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Old 2007-02-24, 14:34   Link #104
FatPianoBoy
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The topic has already been beaten to death (no pun intended ), but my two cents goes like this:
The scene was indeed predictable. We had an idea that it would happen several seconds before it actually did. Therefore, in order to still give us the "OMG!" reaction, the crash was depicted as horribly as it would have happened.
It's my opinion that slow-motion, freeze-frames, blackouts, and close-up shots are used to downplay the gravity of things like these rather than accentuate it. Therefore, I'm quite pleased that KyoAni let us see the accident the same way that poor fellow on the sidewalk did.
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Old 2007-02-24, 14:44   Link #105
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Nightingale View Post
9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......
that is true but i personally would have expected yuuichi to carry nayuki to bed as well another thing...through that scene we didnt see yuuichi's facial expression...man if i was him i would have been blushing quite badly (relative or not there we have a vaunerable girl sleeping unguarded ~ literally )
Quote:
The scene was indeed predictable. We had an idea that it would happen several seconds before it actually did. Therefore, in order to still give us the "OMG!" reaction, the crash was depicted as horribly as it would have happened.
yea...those few seconds of waiting for the bad news seemed like hours...i was chewing on my nails while thinking that its not possible...the it hits me in the face >.<
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Old 2007-02-24, 14:56   Link #106
DanielSong39
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I'm on the fence with the crash scene; it's better than the usual slo-mo/fade-out shtick, but it's also directly ripped off from the Youtube video.

Maybe a single-car crash would've been better.

In any case, I'm more interested in the aftermath. Pleased with this episode, but not sure about where KyoAni will take it from here.
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Old 2007-02-24, 15:23   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05 View Post
Nayuki liked Yuuichi back then, but are"t they RELATED??!
Yes, they are.
No, it does not matter

This topic has been beaten to death in almost every harem anime (yes, yes - i know Kanon is not a typical harem anime, so don't you all come at me with pitchforks and stuff )

They are cousins. Cousin marriage is just fine in Japan, as it is in most other places in the world. Personally, i don't see why it should pose a problem of any sort, and find it perfectly normal. Cheers.
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Old 2007-02-24, 15:43   Link #108
fubar84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Yes, they are.
No, it does not matter

This topic has been beaten to death in almost every harem anime (yes, yes - i know Kanon is not a typical harem anime, so don't you all come at me with pitchforks and stuff )

They are cousins. Cousin marriage is just fine in Japan, as it is in most other places in the world. Personally, i don't see why it should pose a problem of any sort, and find it perfectly normal. Cheers.
Man1 marries Woman1, gets Boy. Man2, who is the brother of Man1, marries Woman2, who is the sister of Woman1, gets Girl. Boy and Girl wed, no prob..?

That is an actual situation in my gfriend's family..... i hate the family gatherings.

On topic: Loved the episode, can't get enough of Nayuki's NYUUUU
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Old 2007-02-24, 15:54   Link #109
superzombie23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Wow. I actually hold an opposite opinion of what you feel. I felt that the accident has been rather downplayed.

No frills, no excessiveness, just raw damage. It was a no-holds barred scene, but to their credit, they did not overplay on it.

Personally, I would have cringed if they made 'car-crash scenario take-XX', where we see the Bambi-eyes of the victim before the screen goes black with accompanying sound-effects. Off-hand, I can already think of two, and if I apply more thought to it, probably a couple dozen more...

It can be said that KyoAni chose a more inspired way of showing the accident.

Cheers.
I definitely would have preferred that version of the crash scene. That's what I meant in my last post by saying it should have been made more serious.
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Old 2007-02-24, 16:01   Link #110
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubar84 View Post
Man1 marries Woman1, gets Boy. Man2, who is the brother of Man1, marries Woman2, who is the sister of Woman1, gets Girl. Boy and Girl wed, no prob..?
I fail to see one
It should be a problem because... ? This is something i have never understood, and i have yet see some one give a better answer than something along the lines of "just because"

Fact: 26 states allow first cousin marriages; Most people can marry their cousin in the US.
Fact: No European country prohibits marriage between first cousins. It is also legal throughout Canada and Mexico to marry your cousin. The USA is the only western country with cousin marriage restrictions.
Fact: US prohibitions against cousin marriages predate modern genetics.
Fact: Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk.

http://www.cousincouples.com/ for more info

...i apologize for the offtopic
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Old 2007-02-24, 16:01   Link #111
New/Old
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Heh heh. That is quite an opinion to make. Heh heh. After all, it's all up to the viewer's opinion. Though in my opinion, any car crash involving a pedestrian and a car is serious enough. No more needs to be said or shown....

EDIT: Informative as always, Skyfall. Heh heh. Personally, it's never bothered me. Why? Because the only reason why it is rebuffed is because of social conditioning. There hasn't really been anything substantiated that holds against it. And if there is no truly serious problem with it, I see no reason to rebuff such a thing because of squeamish tendancies.

Heh heh. Time to get myself back on topic then. Heh heh.
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Old 2007-02-24, 17:14   Link #112
Matt Soulblade
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The fact that Nayuki's and Yuiichi's families are kinda distant and are not large (few members) make them look like they are more distant if not even related. I have a hard time seeing them as a family, Yuiichi looks like teh big "friend's son" freeloader.
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Old 2007-02-24, 17:24   Link #113
guuchan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Soulblade View Post
The fact that Nayuki's and Yuiichi's families are kinda distant and are not large (few members) make them look like they are more distant if not even related. I have a hard time seeing them as a family, Yuiichi looks like teh big "friend's son" freeloader.
Akiko is U1's direct aunt, which means Nayuki is U1's first cousin.
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Old 2007-02-24, 19:39   Link #114
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Excellent episode, unfortunately I had the ending spoiled for me by some imbacile on another forum but aside from that it was really enjoyable. The crash scene wasn't as shocking as I thought it'd be, to be truthful I was a lot more shocked when Makoto dropped Piro off of the bridge, however that may have more to do with the whole 'I did NOT see that coming' effect. I certainly hope that this isn't the end of Akiko, I watched the series again from Episode One the other day and I get the impression that she knows a lot more about what's going on than she lets on - I'd like to know what she knows and why.

I'm probably going to get lynched for this, but am I the only one who just can't get behind Nayuki and Yuichi as a couple? Despite living together throughout the entire series they don't seem to have very much in common and up until recently have pretty much lived and acted like siblings.

None the less I can't wait for Episode Twenty-Two.

Incidently, I wish they'd done a little more with Mishio like, maybe, had her join Yuichi's circle of friends or something. It seems kinda sad that her only role was to help Yuichi with the whole Makoto situation then just vanish from the face of the Earth. I'd like to have seen some sort of resolution there.
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Old 2007-02-24, 20:05   Link #115
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Why all the hassle with the first cousins and all. Love sees no bar. If first cousins are in love..then just let them be..if u want controversy..satisfy urself with koi Kaze or Angelic Sanctuary..when it comes to kanon..pls take a moment of silence and pray for the good health of Akiko-san
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Old 2007-02-24, 20:17   Link #116
Mirrinus
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Maritime, you're not alone. I also don't really see Yuuichi and Nayuki really working out, and it's NOT because they're cousins (having been born in China, it didn't strike me as being too weird). While it's undeniable that Nayuki has feelings for Yuuichi, I've seen very little indication that it could work the other way around. Romantic affection-wise, I'd probably rate Nayuki second to last out of all the girls, beating out only Makoto (whom I saw as having more of a father-daughter relationship, especially by the end). Yuuichi has treated her like a sibling throughout the entire show, I can't really see it changing drastically in just an episode or two.

This is definitely not because I dislike Nayuki, as she's one of my favorite characters. It's just that I can't see her end up with Yuuichi for some reason. Sure, go ahead and blame Yuuichi's bad taste all you want. Still, all I have to say is that she's too good for him. :P
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Old 2007-02-24, 20:26   Link #117
iamandragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I fail to see one
It should be a problem because... ? This is something i have never understood, and i have yet see some one give a better answer than something along the lines of "just because"

Fact: 26 states allow first cousin marriages; Most people can marry their cousin in the US.
Fact: No European country prohibits marriage between first cousins. It is also legal throughout Canada and Mexico to marry your cousin. The USA is the only western country with cousin marriage restrictions.
Fact: US prohibitions against cousin marriages predate modern genetics.
Fact: Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk.

http://www.cousincouples.com/ for more info

...i apologize for the offtopic
Add one fact which is critical: First cousin marriage in the east is VALID. And since the settings of Kanon is in Japan, it is also VALID.
^^
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Old 2007-02-24, 20:48   Link #118
DanielSong39
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I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?
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Old 2007-02-24, 21:01   Link #119
Matt Soulblade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
Akiko is U1's direct aunt, which means Nayuki is U1's first cousin.
I know. "Kinda distant" in terms of contact, communication, things like that.
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Old 2007-02-24, 21:41   Link #120
Brim
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Only episode I have given a ten to - so far at least. Poor Akiko. Poor Nayuki. Poor Yuuichi... sheesh, poor everyone. I don't think there is a character on this show (except for the student council president who was mean to Mai) that I don't like. I honestly hope that everyone can have sort of happy ending, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen...

As for the scene where Nayuki falls asleep on the floor I think it was put in to show Yuuichi's mindset: although he cares for her, he sees her more as a sister than anything else. Him leaving her on the floor really didn't bug me - she seems like she could sleep anywhere. What did bother me was (and no one has mentioned this) he left Piro in the room with her. Isn't that just asking for trouble?

All in all, excellent episode, Kanon keeps impressing me.
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