AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-02-25, 11:43   Link #321
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Does anyone know how far in the manga volumes the live action got? I know that the live action didn't cover all of the manga material.
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 22:02   Link #322
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliensporebomb View Post
I should chime in on the slapstick segments - my wife saw a bit and she said with shock in her voice "he HIT her" like it was an inforgiveable affront - it is a bit much I think. Show the girl some respect .... but I suppose that is what makes the show what it is - I hope that tones down a bit later.
Like your wife and Joojoobees, I also find the level of slapstick violence in this show excessive and out of place. Chiaki's physical abuse of Nodame truly is an unforgiveable affront.

I never really liked slapstick violence (e.g, The Three Stooges) even as a child. As an adult I find it abhorrent that a man would hit a woman (or another man, for that matter) for any reason outside of self-defense, and it makes me much less sympathetic to Chiaki. Let him find other outlets for his aggression and frustrations than hitting Nodame.

The violence just seems so unnecessary within the overall, otherwise delightful, context of Nodame Cantabile. It doesn't make the show "what it is" for me; that comes in watching the characterizations and listening to the music. Is the slapstick violence also in the manga, or was it added to the anime? More interestingly, perhaps, is it in the live dorama? I've only watched the first episode and have stayed away from it while watching the anime to avoid spoilers. It would be even more disturbing to see a human Chiaki hit a human Nodame in a similar, supposedly-humorous context.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 22:50   Link #323
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I can see where you guys are coming from, but this is a comedy title and not a drama. Chiaki's a tsundere and it's slapstick violence. Maybe, he'll lighten up as the series progresses.

If the roles were reversed (i.e female tsundere doing slapstick violence on male lead ala Full Metal Panic!), would you complain?
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 22:58   Link #324
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Yes. I didn't like the scene in a recent Manabi Straight where one of the girls hit the sensei over the head repeatedly with a plate and then kicked him, either.

Chiaki can be tsun without being violent. Kawachika Eri is pretty tsun at the beginning, but I don't recall her hitting people. She just uses the ice-princess approach. Chiaki has the personality to take that approach, too. It would infuriate the hell out of Nodame, too.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:02   Link #325
Shiroth
Beautiful fighter.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 28
Some people really just need to be more open-minded when it comes to shows like this. Its the comedy that works perfect for Nodame Cabtabile, same goes for many shows - its just something you have to get used to.
__________________
Shiroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:02   Link #326
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Unhappy To the moon, Alice

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I never really liked slapstick violence (e.g, The Three Stooges) even as a child. As an adult I find it abhorrent that a man would hit a woman (or another man, for that matter) for any reason outside of self-defense, and it makes me much less sympathetic to Chiaki. Let him find other outlets for his aggression and frustrations than hitting Nodame.
Well said. I'm hoping Chiaki does reign in the physical abuse. He obviously has a lot to learn about getting along with people, and (as of episode 6) he seems to be alienating people with his verbal abuse as well.

Quote:
Is the slapstick violence also in the manga, or was it added to the anime? More interestingly, perhaps, is it in the live dorama? I've only watched the first episode and have stayed away from it while watching the anime to avoid spoilers. It would be even more disturbing to see a human Chiaki hit a human Nodame in a similar, supposedly-humorous context.
I did notice it in the one episode I watched. Chiaki knocks Nodame off the piano bench for playing a wrong note in their duet.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:08   Link #327
Shiroth
Beautiful fighter.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
I did notice it in the one episode I watched. Chiaki knocks Nodame off the piano bench for playing a wrong note in their duet.
& with the level of humor this series gives, there's nothing wrong with that.
__________________
Shiroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:09   Link #328
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Some people really just need to be more open-minded when it comes to shows like this. Its the comedy that works perfect for Nodame Cabtabile, same goes for many shows - its just something you have to get used to.
Yeah, what would the FMP franchise be without Kaname hitting Sosuke? Her fan gives her super-human powers.

So now it's the guy's turn for dishing out the punishment.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:14   Link #329
Theowne
耳をすませば
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Theowne
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
More interestingly, perhaps, is it in the live dorama? I've only watched the first episode and have stayed away from it while watching the anime to avoid spoilers. It would be even more disturbing to see a human Chiaki hit a human Nodame in a similar, supposedly-humorous context.
Actually, yes. It's done in a manga-ish comedic way though, with exaggerated slow motion shots. But I agree it's a little too much. I think the author is trying to emphasize how Chiaki perceives Nodame. Right now, at the beginning of the series, Chiaki does not give her much respect and treats her like a child.

Though I recommend you to reconsider watching the live action. I just finished it, and it was definitely beyond my expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion
I can see where you guys are coming from, but this is a comedy title and not a drama.
I don't quite agree. I would say later on, it's more like Honey and Clover with it's comedy/drama approach.
__________________

My Site - Reviews collection, Sheet music, and etc.
Anime reviews/blog, piano arrangements, Studio Ghibli..
Theowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:30   Link #330
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
& with the level of humor this series gives, there's nothing wrong with that.
We just disagree about whether hitting people is funny. I think there are many other funny things about the series and I enjoy it. Seeing someone get physically abused, not so much.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:42   Link #331
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
I'll try to stay OT here. Let me state my case knowing I might come off sounding like a tightass.

I've watched lots of cartoon violence in my life. I recall distinctly an evening with my mother where we saw three RoadRunner cartoons in a row and roared hysterically together throughout. I've seen Daffy Duck hit Bugs Bunny with a giant mallet, etc., etc., ad infinitum. I've laughed at most, though not all, of those scenes.

There's an enormous difference in my mind between Nodame Cantabile and Looney Tunes. First off, Chiaki and Nodame are intended to be seen as authentic humans. Sure they're caricatures, they're cartoons after all. Yet I feel a sense of empathy with human anime characters that I don't feel for Bugs Bunny or, even, Elmer Fudd. It hurts me when I see Nodame get hit. I don't think I'd like it any better if Nodame decided to play Kaname, either.

On a broader level, I think the easy acceptance of portrayals of violence like those in Nodame Cantabile shows how willing we still are as a species to see physically attacking our fellow humans as an acceptable behavior. Chiaki has absolutely no justification to hit anyone male or female. While Nodame can be annoying and ridiculous at times, that doesn't give Chiaki the right to hit her. What makes this especially unfortunate about Nodame Cantabile is that the show could be just as funny and just as moving without resorting to tired slapstick. The writing, the design, the acting, the music, everything else about this show is quite impressive. The casual portrayal of violence is its one disturbing flaw.
__________________

Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2007-02-25 at 23:56. Reason: grammar
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-25, 23:59   Link #332
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
On a broader level, I think the easy acceptance of portrayals of violence like those in Nodame Cantabile show how willing we still are as a species to see physically attacking our fellow humans as an acceptable behavior. Chiaki has absolutely no justification to hit anyone male or female. While Nodame can be annoying and ridiculous at times, that doesn't give Chiaki the right to hit her. What makes this especially annoying about Nodame Cantabile is that the show could be just as funny and just as moving without resorting to tired slapstick. The writing, the design, the acting, everything else about this show is quite impressive. The casual portrayal of violence is its one disturbing flaw.
I completely agree with Sensei.

I understand that other people have different tastes in humor. Clearly there are those that enjoy seeing giant lumps raised on people's heads. To me it is disturbing and unfunny. Perhaps I find the thought that people would hit each other with minimal provocation far too possible; it seems, sometimes, that I inherited a world where violence is the first recourse when any disagreements arise.

It makes it a little difficult to find mirth in situations where Chiaki throws a baton in Mine's face just because Mine said something stupid, or (heaven forfend) misunderstands Beethoven. Instead it makes me think ill of Chiaki.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 00:00   Link #333
Skane
Anime Snark
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Post

Except that it is fictional, and we know it. People "kill" each other on a daily basis in games( and find it thrilling), but that doesn't mean the sane majority of them don't know it's wrong in real-life.

We have a brain, and we use it to understand that what we are seeing on-screen is fictional. Feel free to be repulsed by it, but I personally find it funny, even though I very well know it would not fly in real-life, and heck, I would not condone it and stop it using all my might.

In some ways, Chiaki's actions represents our desires when we encounter a problem. Actions that do not have real-life consequences.

For example, you are a waiter and you are attending to an extremely obnoxious customer. Cue desire to pour water onto his head, or something similar. Would you do it? You could, but you would be sacrificing your job just because of one twit. Not to mention the possible legal repercussions( and a host of other consequences).

So what happens when we DO see this happening in anime? As a matter of fact... we do! And due to plot convenience, they often get away with it. Is it funny? Yes! Fictional mediums enable us to see some of our desires manifest without the worry of real-life consequences. Remember. Anime is mostly a form of escapist-entertainment. Not a social-life documentary.

Cheers.
__________________
Skane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 00:10   Link #334
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Almost totally agree with Skane. The "use all my might" part could get me in trouble. If you go too far, you could end up like this guy.

This poor soul could face 33 months in jail and is the butt of radio jokes.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 00:40   Link #335
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
I just rewatched a good portion of episode 1 to refresh my memory of what disturbed me about it. During their first piano duet together, Chiaki throws a score edge on into Nodame's face when she makes a mistake. I don't know if you've seen a music score, but that would certainly hurt and might have cut her. That scene took about three seconds. A bit later it appears that he hits her with his fist on the top of her head. Again extremely hurtful, and at most another three seconds. The entire rest of the anime, some twenty-two minutes, is delightfully funny without a moment of similar violence. Would we have enjoyed Nodame Cantabile any less it if was missing those six seconds of needless and intrusive hitting as well?

Oh, and I think both of Chiaki's actions are considerably more violent and hurtful than pouring water over the head of an annoying customer. In situation comedies where that sort of thing occurs, it's often the case that the waitress character does lose her job. At least there's some compensating event; Chiaki hits Nodame and suffers no consequences whatsoever. Sensei looks on and never reacts at all.

Edit: Let me add that I'd find those scenes more acceptable if they were embedded in a fantasy in Chiaki's mind. I have no problem with him imaging hitting Nodame as long as the animators made it clear he didn't hit her in reality. People can imagine whatever they want; it's their actions that I care about. Actually this approach would be a good way to "have your cake and eat it, too," as it were. You get to show the slapstick violence yet also model the behavior of controlling aggression though the use of one's imagination.
__________________

Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2007-02-26 at 01:49.
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 00:42   Link #336
Joojoobees
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Arrow Violence is fun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Almost totally agree with Skane. The "use all my might" part could get me in trouble. If you go too far, you could end up like this guy.
Wow. I feel sorry for that guy. He seemed to have been trying to do the right thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Except that it is fictional, and we know it.
Quote:
For example, you are a waiter and you are attending to an extremely obnoxious customer. Cue desire to pour water onto his head
Skane, I appreciate what you are saying, and the water example is good. Understand, however, that I am not condemning cartoon violence because I think you (or "kids") might think it is okay. I am expressing my "freedom to be repulsed by it".

Perhaps it is a testament to the good job the creators have done, of making me care about these characters. Perhaps it is just my belief that this isn't wacky cartoon violence, but something that happens in everyday life.

Quote:
Remember. Anime is mostly a form of escapist-entertainment. Not a social-life documentary.
I do think that anime has the capacity to rise up above escapist entertainment, but I agree with you. Which is why I find the violence disturbing. I want to escape to a place where Mine, as lame as he is, has a chance to show he is capable of something. I want to escape to a place where goofy, sloppy Nodame can capture the heart of Chiaki-sama, the sharpest guy on the campus. And I want to escape FROM a place where violence is endemic, and treated as the only possible solution to all human conflict.
Joojoobees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 01:26   Link #337
DanielSong39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Must admit that I find Chiaki to be a bit over-the-top when it comes to verbal and physical abuse.

When someone plays in a manner that Chiaki finds unsatisfactory, his reaction is to belittle the person, yell at them for doing it wrong, or to hit them. He doesn't seem to bother tell them why it's wrong, or tell them how to do it right. Mine was right on the mark when he claimed that Chiaki "knew nothing about music" in episode 2.

Sometimes I wonder what Chiaki's true motivation is. Is it to proclaim that everyone else sucks (including a fellow student in episode 2, who was clearly a better violinist than Chiaki), and feed his monstrous ego? Or to become a tyrant who can rule over other musicians at will and make them do exactly what he wants from them? I hope not, but his actions often suggest otherwise - at least for now.

Last edited by DanielSong39; 2007-02-26 at 03:20.
DanielSong39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 01:32   Link #338
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
I want to escape to a place where goofy, sloppy Nodame can capture the heart of Chiaki-sama, the sharpest guy on the campus.
Except that Nodame is cleaning up her act. That's why he's tolerating her imo.

@DanielSong39: These people are 3rd year music majors with the exception of Nodame. They have to find employment after this or go on to be conductors like Chiaki. They are suppose to have their acts together. He is not suppose to be telling them how to do it right. They should already know how imo.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 02:47   Link #339
pyu
Crouchety Old Man
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Singapore
Send a message via MSN to pyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Yes. I didn't like the scene in a recent Manabi Straight where one of the girls hit the sensei over the head repeatedly with a plate and then kicked him, either.

Chiaki can be tsun without being violent. Kawachika Eri is pretty tsun at the beginning, but I don't recall her hitting people. She just uses the ice-princess approach. Chiaki has the personality to take that approach, too. It would infuriate the hell out of Nodame, too.
I don't think anyone would be influenced into behaving like Chiaki or any of the archtypical characters (e.g. Naru, Akane, etc, etc) when watching Nodame Cantabile (or Love Hina, Ranma 1/2, etc, etc). Its quite obvious that the violence is meant to be humerous and not to be taken seriously.

Its not an attack on your person, but to me, it is a constant source of bemusement to find people constantly taking these "violent" situations out of context and essentially viewing it from a perspective the author / mangaka / director / etc never intended in the first place.

The same applies to many other scenarios - for e.g. how in Mahou Sensei Negi, the protagonist constantly gets molested by older women. Its rather funny and sad to see people taking THAT out of its comedic context and making it an issue like what you are doing.
__________________
"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe
pyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-02-26, 03:13   Link #340
DanielSong39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
@DanielSong39: These people are 3rd year music majors with the exception of Nodame. They have to find employment after this or go on to be conductors like Chiaki. They are suppose to have their acts together. He is not suppose to be telling them how to do it right. They should already know how imo.
I played violin for orchestra at the collegiate level - and I can personally attest that the conductor cut in from time to time to tell us what kind of sound he wanted from us - none of this "you're doing this all wrong!" rant that Chiaki often degenerated into. Yes, everyone knows how to play - but it's one thing to know how to play the notes, and quite another to work together with other instruments to create a sound that fits the conductor's vision. See here for more details.

Granted, there are many styles of conducting, but I find it hard to believe that Chiaki's method could be productive over the long run. And that was kinda the point of episodes 6 and 7, if you ask me.
DanielSong39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
comedy, nodame cantabile, noitamina, romance

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.