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Old 2004-01-26, 19:44   Link #21
Mr. Bushido
Zoro
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Don't worry. As far as I know about lagging American cell phone technology, you'll have our mp3-into-flash-media capable cell phones in a year or so.
Japan isnt the leading cell phone country just in case you wanted to know. Japan will be getting karaoke phones soon enough right? unless u guys already have it there... its about a year old in korea and some european countries. Or Maybe you'll be getting Korea's video chat soon enough who knows.
lagging cell phone tech?? America gets all its phones from Japan and Europe. They also choose the free phones from korea.

Ear training isnt done by the japanese only, american music students do it too. I can do it too, not at a level which i can convert mp3s to MIDIs tho. BUt i can tune my guitars using a synthetizer. Grab a music student from germany, they do it the best.

anyway, i forgot wat else i was going to type.... lol. Damn school!
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Old 2004-01-27, 13:32   Link #22
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Japan isnt the leading cell phone country just in case you wanted to know. Japan will be getting karaoke phones soon enough right? unless u guys already have it there... its about a year old in korea and some european countries. Or Maybe you'll be getting Korea's video chat soon enough who knows.
lagging cell phone tech?? America gets all its phones from Japan and Europe. They also choose the free phones from korea.

Ear training isnt done by the japanese only, american music students do it too. I can do it too, not at a level which i can convert mp3s to MIDIs tho. BUt i can tune my guitars using a synthetizer. Grab a music student from germany, they do it the best.

anyway, i forgot wat else i was going to type.... lol. Damn school!
Karaoke phones, though at first seemed cool but deemed to be useless disappeared three years ago here in Japan. Instead, people chose to directly download their favorite karaoke songs over the WebTV type system through e-kara.

And as far as I know, Japan does have the leading technology in cellular phones in the world. the only problem is that our cell phones don't work in other countries. Setting aside old analogue/digital technology (AMPS, TACS, N-AMPS, TDMA) while the European (Scandinavian) cell phone commission (and somewhat U.S' Qualcomm's CDMA system as well) globalized the cellular standard through GSM (and CDMA) networks, Japan chose to stick to using their own PDC network which was incompatible to other nations. While the rest of the world started using GSM (and CDMA), Japan stuck to protect its own interest (which I can go into detail that this type of self-sustaining economic tactics is what caused Japanese economic downfall in the first place) by using its own cellular network which is not restricted to regulations and technological wall-block that the GSM and CDMA networks have.

As the rest of the world starts going to 3G technology right now, Japan has already reached 4G in 2001 (with next generation coming up this summer) with DoCoMo's FOMA phones (what you refer to "video chat" had been here since the turn of the century on our other cellular service - PHS, which is also incompatible with other nations). On the other hand, it is only "4G" in definition in what it can do - but not truly "4G" in saying it is compatible with the rest of the world.

So in a sense, it is correct to say that EU and Korea is leading in the cellular world - for GSM and CDMA. If you look at the technology overall not binded to restrictions of WAP capabilities and media functions that GSM and CDMA is keeping back, then Japan is the leading cellular phone company.

Sites of interest:
SK Telecom - http://www.sktelecom.com/
Vodafone Group - http://www.vodafone.co.uk/
Verizon Wirelss - http://www.verizonwireless.com/
NTT DoCoMo - http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/index.shtml
J-Phone (part of Vodafone group incompatible with other Vodafone groups) - http://www.j-phone.com/h-e/
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Old 2004-01-27, 14:15   Link #23
SomeName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
A very bad analogy would be: "It is simple to turn a gold bar for usage into computer transistors, but it would be difficult to take the computer transistors back into a pure gold bar."
Just to poke fun.. both would be equally hard since transistors don't use gold. To invest in the technology and to build new fabs that can.. well.. that'll set you back billions. But I think we got the picture. ^_^
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Old 2004-01-27, 22:29   Link #24
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Karaoke phones, though at first seemed cool but deemed to be useless disappeared three years ago here in Japan. Instead, people chose to directly download their favorite karaoke songs over the WebTV type system through e-kara.

And as far as I know, Japan does have the leading technology in cellular phones in the world. the only problem is that our cell phones don't work in other countries. Setting aside old analogue/digital technology (AMPS, TACS, N-AMPS, TDMA) while the European (Scandinavian) cell phone commission (and somewhat U.S' Qualcomm's CDMA system as well) globalized the cellular standard through GSM (and CDMA) networks, Japan chose to stick to using their own PDC network which was incompatible to other nations. While the rest of the world started using GSM (and CDMA), Japan stuck to protect its own interest (which I can go into detail that this type of self-sustaining economic tactics is what caused Japanese economic downfall in the first place) by using its own cellular network which is not restricted to regulations and technological wall-block that the GSM and CDMA networks have.

As the rest of the world starts going to 3G technology right now, Japan has already reached 4G in 2001 (with next generation coming up this summer) with DoCoMo's FOMA phones (what you refer to "video chat" had been here since the turn of the century on our other cellular service - PHS, which is also incompatible with other nations). On the other hand, it is only "4G" in definition in what it can do - but not truly "4G" in saying it is compatible with the rest of the world.

So in a sense, it is correct to say that EU and Korea is leading in the cellular world - for GSM and CDMA. If you look at the technology overall not binded to restrictions of WAP capabilities and media functions that GSM and CDMA is keeping back, then Japan is the leading cellular phone company.

Sites of interest:
SK Telecom - http://www.sktelecom.com/
Vodafone Group - http://www.vodafone.co.uk/
Verizon Wirelss - http://www.verizonwireless.com/
NTT DoCoMo - http://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/index.shtml
J-Phone (part of Vodafone group incompatible with other Vodafone groups) - http://www.j-phone.com/h-e/

er well world record books. (i think it was Guiness) shows korea as the leading cell phone country.

Then again, i really dont care... its a phone u talk... wat else do u want? mp3? well im sure you have a mp3 player or a cd player.

u should also realize, 90% of korean phones dont come out of korea. Just like the japanese phones. The only way i even get the latest tech reports about the korean phones are via friends and relatives. (i wouldnt know so much about EU phones since i dont know anyone living in Europe)
technology reports by tech analysists (like in Popular Science Magazine and Time magazine) shows the decline of japanese technology and the rise of European (especially England and Germany) , Korean, and AMERICAN (surprised?) technologies. Sony especially is not doing so well, while Samsung is doing surprisingly well. As of now, Japanese electronics dominate, however, its not moving as fast as it used to.

as for you poking fun at US technology

From an AP US history book i bought last yr it showed an interesting stat. (1998) out of every 10,000 american college graduates, 30 of them are engineers. Out of every 10,000 japanese college graduates 300 of them are engineers. Until i read this i thought USA was just plain slow in electronics and wat not, but this proved that USA doesnt really push towards that. technically the Japanese isnt as impressive as ppl believe. (Although they are still pretty damn impressive, but not the 800IQ stereotype they recieve)

US technology is pushed towards military things, japan has no military really. So while Japan focuses on things like dog translators and invisible suit (do u have any info on this? the information stopped flowing here last yr) the US is focusing on supersonic bombers.

to sum it up, dont believe US technology sucks.... the best show of technological force is in the military, not Nintendo.
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Last edited by Zoro; 2004-01-27 at 23:01.
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Old 2004-01-28, 04:29   Link #25
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
From an AP US history book i bought last yr it showed an interesting stat. (1998) out of every 10,000 american college graduates, 30 of them are engineers. Out of every 10,000 japanese college graduates 300 of them are engineers. Until i read this i thought USA was just plain slow in electronics and wat not, but this proved that USA doesnt really push towards that. technically the Japanese isnt as impressive as ppl believe. (Although they are still pretty damn impressive, but not the 800IQ stereotype they recieve)
Um... those statistics are quite meaningless, because many factors can influence how many people become engineers. What if people _aren't_ capable of becoming successful engineers? Just because you want to become an engineer doesn't mean you'll be actually succesfully able to become an engineering student. I've seen many people who wanted to do computer science but simply didn't have the background/capability/mindset to carry through with such a major. I'm not saying they are smarter, I'm saying that using a random statistic like that is really not all that convincing... Besides, I wonder what would've happened if American companies treated employees as well as the Japanese companies do/used to do...

Oh yeah, innovation is IMO inversely proportional to inertia. The more inertia (larger the company), the less likely it's going to innovate, especially if they have already a steady source of income and they are happy with it. The problem with producing products commercially is that a lot of times, it's the fact of making money that is the real impetus, and not the urge to innovate...

Quote:
US technology is pushed towards military things, japan has no military really. So while Japan focuses on things like dog translators and invisible suit (do u have any info on this? the information stopped flowing here last yr) the US is focusing on supersonic bombers.

to sum it up, dont believe US technology sucks.... the best show of technological force is in the military, not Nintendo.
How do you know Japan is not working on military stuff? Besides, the dog translator and invisible suit articles caught a lot of people's attention due to the fact that it was such an oddball invention that almost had no real use what-so-ever. And you know what, the X-Box was something along that caliber... I mean... I _laughed_ at the XBox more than the dog translator. At least the dog translator was creative. The XBox is just stuffing a PC into a slightly smaller form factor with better wiring...

And I, for one, would prefer to have technological muscle thrown at domestic inventions, instead of towards killing people and slowly letting the technology trickle back into the domestic environment. Oh well, I could also wish for world peace, but that's sooooo far from reality that barring a spectacular event, it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

Anyways, there's this neat thing I was thinking about in terms of note recognition. Simply doing a Fourier analysis isn't enough, especially for musical instruments with dominant 2nd harmonics. Maybe I can come up with something to deal with that and not be computationally costly
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Old 2004-01-28, 16:50   Link #26
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
Um... those statistics are quite meaningless, because many factors can influence how many people become engineers. What if people _aren't_ capable of becoming successful engineers? Just because you want to become an engineer doesn't mean you'll be actually succesfully able to become an engineering student. I've seen many people who wanted to do computer science but simply didn't have the background/capability/mindset to carry through with such a major. I'm not saying they are smarter, I'm saying that using a random statistic like that is really not all that convincing... Besides, I wonder what would've happened if American companies treated employees as well as the Japanese companies do/used to do...

Oh yeah, innovation is IMO inversely proportional to inertia. The more inertia (larger the company), the less likely it's going to innovate, especially if they have already a steady source of income and they are happy with it. The problem with producing products commercially is that a lot of times, it's the fact of making money that is the real impetus, and not the urge to innovate...


How do you know Japan is not working on military stuff? Besides, the dog translator and invisible suit articles caught a lot of people's attention due to the fact that it was such an oddball invention that almost had no real use what-so-ever. And you know what, the X-Box was something along that caliber... I mean... I _laughed_ at the XBox more than the dog translator. At least the dog translator was creative. The XBox is just stuffing a PC into a slightly smaller form factor with better wiring...

And I, for one, would prefer to have technological muscle thrown at domestic inventions, instead of towards killing people and slowly letting the technology trickle back into the domestic environment. Oh well, I could also wish for world peace, but that's sooooo far from reality that barring a spectacular event, it's not going to happen in my lifetime.

Anyways, there's this neat thing I was thinking about in terms of note recognition. Simply doing a Fourier analysis isn't enough, especially for musical instruments with dominant 2nd harmonics. Maybe I can come up with something to deal with that and not be computationally costly

i think u misunderstood. The stats show them becomming engineers... as in getting a job. Wat kinda engineer? no specifics.

how do i know japan isnt working on military?? Because they dont have a military really. After ww2 japan was reduced to a national guard, their military is the US army.

im not saying the invisible suits and dog translators are not cool (i even asked the other guy for more info on the invisible one) xbox is really just a computer. You missed how my example wasnt a xbox but a supersonic bomber.

Quote:
And I, for one, would prefer to have technological muscle thrown at domestic inventions, instead of towards killing people and slowly letting the technology trickle back into the domestic environment.
it doesnt matter my friend... the best technology wil ALWAYS be thrown into the military. I dont like killing ppl either, but thats just how it works. You cant make fun of US technology because we have no TV companies. America's technology is in NASA and the Military.
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Old 2004-01-28, 18:03   Link #27
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
i think u misunderstood. The stats show them becomming engineers... as in getting a job. Wat kinda engineer? no specifics.
You're basically forming the "3% of Japanese college students become engineers, while 0.3% of American college students become engineers" implies that "the USA doesn't push towards electronics" statement.

Quote:
how do i know japan isnt working on military?? Because they dont have a military really. After ww2 japan was reduced to a national guard, their military is the US army.
Like I said, how can you really be sure? Outside appearances can be quite convincing.

Quote:
im not saying the invisible suits and dog translators are not cool (i even asked the other guy for more info on the invisible one) xbox is really just a computer. You missed how my example wasnt a xbox but a supersonic bomber.
You're implying Japan is focusing on developing domestic gadgets while the US is not, and the US is spending most of its "engineering time" on the military. My example was to show that it's not just Japan spending time on funky gadgets.

Quote:
it doesnt matter my friend... the best technology wil ALWAYS be thrown into the military. I dont like killing ppl either, but thats just how it works. You cant make fun of US technology because we have no TV companies. America's technology is in NASA and the Military.
And you shouldn't try to poke back with weak facts. I'm not a big fan of technological boasting, but I'm also not a big fan of weak comebacks. If you had maybe researched the topic a little more, you may have come back with a substantial refute to kj1980's statements.

Re: Military,
Ah, it's so sad human beings have a constant fear of others... Oh well...
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Old 2004-01-28, 18:42   Link #28
kj1980
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Clarification: "As far as I know about lagging American cell phone technology."

I have never implied upon American technology overall - I have stated a generalized area upon "cell phone technology," as a reference to another poster here who questioned on MIDI ringtones.

As this is going off topic, I will not disclose any detail further that will arise into a mess.

But here are some quotes that you should imply on to further your knowledge and love of history:

1. "History is deemed by the bias of the person who writes history"

2. "History is always double-sided"

3. "Primary source, secondary source, tertiary source."

And it actually helps to do data-analytical process:

"30 in 10,000 American college graduates becomes engineers
300 in 10,000 Japanese college graduates becomes engineers"

is not a very good data to draw conclusions from without knowing the data "how many college graduates were there in total in 1998 in the U.S. and Japan." You cannot compare directly to just a sample pool of 10,000 graduates because, hypothetically speaking, the US has 18 times more population mass than Japan (close to 300 million US - US Census estimate 2003, vs 16 million Japan - Japanese National Census estimate 2003).


The term "military" is broadly defined. Is the US Coast Guard and the State National Guards "not a military?"
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Old 2004-01-29, 12:15   Link #29
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
You're basically forming the "3% of Japanese college students become engineers, while 0.3% of American college students become engineers" implies that "the USA doesn't push towards electronics" statement.
not really, engineers do other things. I said a good reason for lagging US domestic technology is due to the lack of engineers, and a good reason for Japan's sucess is the high number of engineers. More head put together, more results.

Quote:
Like I said, how can you really be sure? Outside appearances can be quite convincing.
are you telling me Japan would go against the treaty made in WW2? Also, it would be really hard for Japan to be THAT rich with a military to support


Quote:
You're implying Japan is focusing on developing domestic gadgets while the US is not, and the US is spending most of its "engineering time" on the military. My example was to show that it's not just Japan spending time on funky gadgets.
no no no no, i said the best technology was in the US army. I didnt say anything like "US does nothing but military!!!"


Quote:
And you shouldn't try to poke back with weak facts. I'm not a big fan of technological boasting, but I'm also not a big fan of weak comebacks. If you had maybe researched the topic a little more, you may have come back with a substantial refute to kj1980's statements.
lol i dont mean any disrespect because its my own opinion, but im gonna have to laugh at you a bit.

1. weak facts? lol, so are you saying that "US military has the best technology" is a weak fact? tell me wats so "weak" about it.

2. come back? no, i was just telling kj1980 that US doesnt have slow technology. Lots of ppl like to mention how slow US is.... which is FAR from the truth.

3. RESEARCH!? lol for an online forum? Im sorry i have a life and a school to go to. I have finals this week in fact. Ill be studying for AP Euro history and computer programming... thats the closest to a tech research ill be doing this week. However in Euro we're still before WW1 and Cmp Programming is software.


Quote:
Re: Military,
Ah, it's so sad human beings have a constant fear of others... Oh well...
Because humans can kill better than anything else. Its more like "its sad that we hate each other"



Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Clarification: "As far as I know about lagging American cell phone technology."

I have never implied upon American technology overall - I have stated a generalized area upon "cell phone technology," as a reference to another poster here who questioned on MIDI ringtones.
Well sorry then. 95.9% of the japanese, Korean, and Russian ppl i have met so far has always poked fun at US technology. So i kinda got annoyed.... u can say u caught me at a bad mood?



Quote:
But here are some quotes that you should imply on to further your knowledge and love of history:

1. "History is deemed by the bias of the person who writes history"

2. "History is always double-sided"

3. "Primary source, secondary source, tertiary source."

And it actually helps to do data-analytical process:

"30 in 10,000 American college graduates becomes engineers
300 in 10,000 Japanese college graduates becomes engineers"

is not a very good data to draw conclusions from without knowing the data "how many college graduates were there in total in 1998 in the U.S. and Japan." You cannot compare directly to just a sample pool of 10,000 graduates because, hypothetically speaking, the US has 18 times more population mass than Japan (close to 300 million US - US Census estimate 2003, vs 16 million Japan - Japanese National Census estimate 2003).
tats why its every 10,000.

I dont know... would a survey taken by some university to analyze the growth/recovery of japan after ww2 be a primary source? (the survey was in 1998)

16 million ppl in japan? are you kidding? i thought it was much more.

Quote:
The term "military" is broadly defined. Is the US Coast Guard and the State National Guards "not a military?"
i dont consider them military a force. Army, Navy, Air Force. Thats it.

no more off topic.... if it MUST be discussed PM.. the mods will get annoyed by now..

Any good anime MIDI sites?
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Old 2004-01-29, 17:24   Link #30
SomeName
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According to the 2002 census at http://www.jinjapan.org/stat/stats/01CEN21.html, Japan's population was 127 million a year or two ago.

Yes this is an online forum, but making sure your facts are straight before spewwing them makes you a lot more credible. Research is as easy as typing a phrase into google these days, surely you're not so busy with your finals that you can't do that.
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Old 2004-01-29, 17:35   Link #31
kj1980
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeName
According to the 2002 census at http://www.jinjapan.org/stat/stats/01CEN21.html, Japan's population was 127 million a year or two ago.

Yes this is an online forum, but making sure your facts are straight before spewwing them makes you a lot more credible. Research is as easy as typing a phrase into google these days, surely you're not so busy with your finals that you can't do that.
must've missed a zero then...Japanese number standards are similar to UK counting systems...(i.e. 1,000,000 = US: one million, JPN: one hundred "ten thousands.")

That would mean the US vs Japan population will be roughly little under half.
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Old 2004-01-29, 22:42   Link #32
Mr. Bushido
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u havent been in high school lately?? Its pretty damn annoying. I take "college" courses... which isnt too hard, but a lot to cover. Google, and the internet in general is VERY unreliable. So proper research isnt as easy as u say it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
must've missed a zero then...Japanese number standards are similar to UK counting systems...(i.e. 1,000,000 = US: one million, JPN: one hundred "ten thousands.")

That would mean the US vs Japan population will be roughly little under half.
yea i thought it was weird. I thought the population of Tokyo was roughly around 16 million. My parents make the same mistakes with #s when they translate to English. (from korean)
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Old 2004-01-30, 04:38   Link #33
ElvenPath
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Let's stay on-topic please
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