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Old 2007-03-06, 02:43   Link #941
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
Its plain obvious. Setsuna is just an object for Kyoushiro's use, in the end he would just destroy her. He doesnt care if he used even despicable sexual method on her to get what he wants.

Now Kyoushiro is getting a taste of his own medicine when Kuu just forget about this dumb idiot. Addition to Kazuya beating the crap out of him since he sends Setsuna out to battle and he stays behind.

Do you even know what slut means? Here-
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Slut is a pejorative term for a person (usually female) who is more sexually promiscuous than is deemed socially acceptable
Your statement makes little sense about him treating her as a slut ...besides, as Chiibi said: How do you actually TREAT someone like a slut?

And although i think i get what you might be getting at, i would still disagree. Have we seen any evidence that would support your claim ? Kyoshiro is not exactly a nice guy, but he is not as bad as you want him to be. And this is coming from some one who hates Kyoshiro. (Though i hate him less now that the complete jackass that is Kazuya showed up)
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Old 2007-03-06, 02:51   Link #942
holyman282
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Well it seems that more and more people are coming to their senses that Kyoshiro is not a bad guy, just misguided. The real jackass here is Kazuya, who just pisses me off everytime i see him....

By the way honey, how the hell is he using
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver
despicable sexual method
to get what he wants? If you talking about kissing her, (which i might add provides her with mana) then really you need to work on learning correct words to describe his actions... anyway Kyoshiro hardly even looks at Setsuna... so i don't know what sexual method he is using, perhaps it's the sexual method of ignoring her?!
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Old 2007-03-06, 03:14   Link #943
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Yeah lol XD
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Old 2007-03-06, 03:34   Link #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyman282 View Post
Well it seems that more and more people are coming to their senses that Kyoshiro is not a bad guy, just misguided. The real jackass here is Kazuya, who just pisses me off everytime i see him....
"Bad guy" and "misguided" are not necessarily opposite. Like Kyoshiro, one can be both.

By the way, did I mention I really loved seeing Kyoshiro get pwned by his dear brother. ^^
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Old 2007-03-06, 07:10   Link #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Am I the only one who thinks Kazuya is a great character? Not someone I want to meet in real life, but a fascinating fictional creation. I've never seen a character quite like him.
Spoiler for ep9:
He reminds me of Gates from FMP:TSR in a sense... a real piece of work with no hold on reality or any scale of brutality. But, I don't like these types of characters. Give me antagonists with complex agendas that appear evil on the surface, but actually have some noble motivation under it. I can't see that happening with Kazuya. Unless they pull something that's well beyond my powers of prediction, it looks like he's going to end up as an 'evil-for-the-sake-of-being-evil' antagonist.

Ep 9.

Ok, fair episode with lots of ZOMG PLOT TWISTS. In the end I thought Mika was a waste of a character. Sure, she did receive a bit of background and depth in the end, but it was in parts and too disjointed overall, so it became difficult to sympathize with her until the very end, and made
Spoiler:
a tad underwhelming compared to what it could have been. I mean, she has the complexity in an antagonist I was just talking about, and I like those sorts of characters (Chikane was the same in KnM, now that I think about it). I think I would have liked to have seen an episode just dedicated to her alone, if only to see just where they could take her character. Not to be .

The parts of a giant mecha thing is actually quite clever now that I think of each of the AA's respective powers. It is, admittedly, a fairly well thought out story... even if it isn't anything incredibly unique. But that last scene made no sense to me. Setsuna's (lack of) action sort of demands that she, too, has had her memory erased or that it was another surreal scene within the Cielo. Either way, it's a disappointing fate for her, since she is an incredibly likable character, and the only way out for her (that I can think of) is a crappy DEM. Speaking of DEMs, that's looking like a possible ending at this point...

Final note: Anyone who still thinks Kyoshiro is a 'bad' guy has completely missed the point of this series.
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Old 2007-03-06, 10:11   Link #946
Owaranai Destiny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Ep 9.

Ok, fair episode with lots of ZOMG PLOT TWISTS. In the end I thought Mika was a waste of a character. Sure, she did receive a bit of background and depth in the end, but it was in parts and too disjointed overall, so it became difficult to sympathize with her until the very end, and made
Spoiler:
a tad underwhelming compared to what it could have been. I mean, she has the complexity in an antagonist I was just talking about, and I like those sorts of characters (Chikane was the same in KnM, now that I think about it). I think I would have liked to have seen an episode just dedicated to her alone, if only to see just where they could take her character. Not to be .
Now that I think about it, that has quite a degree of truth in it, especially because we've hardly seen much of her save for the one-sided view of her treatment (or lack thereof) of Kaon and Himeko. There were a few flashes here and there, but never really anything concrete to make for gradual development, making the reason why she hates Kazuya a little sudden. It's probably a problem with the length of the series as well.

Quote:
Final note: Anyone who still thinks Kyoshiro is a 'bad' guy has completely missed the point of this series.
My sentiments exactly, though I don't believe many would share that same opinion because of biased views or unforgiving attitudes.
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Old 2007-03-06, 11:11   Link #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Final note: Anyone who still thinks Kyoshiro is a 'bad' guy has completely missed the point of this series.
You make no sense. Even if you are right and the creators' intention is for the viewers to sympathize with Kyoshiro because he has been misguided and whatnot, It's ultimately up to the viewers to choose to do so. And if they still view Kyoshiro as nothing more than an asshole, it doesn't mean they don't get the point of the series; it just means they don't care.

Personally, I want to see actions. Words mean nothing, so Kyoshiro realizing he has been a bastard doesn't change anything. I want to see him get his butt kicked once again, but this time doing something productive, like risking his sorry ass to save an AA (other than Kuu); to save Tarlotte, for example. That would prove he has changed, and only then he would deserve some forgiveness.
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Old 2007-03-06, 12:17   Link #948
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What the heck has a viewers ability to sympathize with a character has to do with him being a good/bad guy or not ? I hate Kira's guts (Gundam SEED), and my sole wish during GSD was for him to kick the bucket. Needless to say i did not sympathize with him. Does that make him a bad guy ?

No, i don't sympathize with Kyoshiro, and i believe that the beating he got was good for him. Do i believe him to be a bad guy ? Nop.

Even from the start, when my hate for him was much higher than now, he never came across as a villain. Not even close, not matter how you look at it. Worst he has done is given a cold shoulder to Setsuna for a prolonged period of time. And while that is more than enough to stimulate dislike and what not towards him, it still does not make him a "bad" guy.

Kazuya is the bad guy, which is bluntly obvious.
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Old 2007-03-06, 12:26   Link #949
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well up til now i think kyoshiro has suffered enough...prior to ep 9 i still held some hate for him and was pretty happy he got a beating...but now its just rubbing salt to the wounds...kyoshiro is completely lifeless...his sole reason for living has been taking and his soul shattered...

i think with kazuya breaking kyoshiro like this its time for me to wipe the slate clean...it was kazuya who influenced kyoshiro to became the man he was so now i hope we are finally able to see kyoshiro's own true feelings...methinks sojiro is going to play a big part in kyoshiro's revival
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Old 2007-03-06, 13:02   Link #950
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Whether he has suffered enough or not, in order to redeem himself he has to do something, something for someone else sake. Up to this point he has never done anything for others sake, and you can not disagree with me about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
What the heck has a viewers ability to sympathize with a character has to do with him being a good/bad guy or not ? I hate Kira's guts (Gundam SEED), and my sole wish during GSD was for him to kick the bucket. Needless to say i did not sympathize with him. Does that make him a bad guy ?

No, i don't sympathize with Kyoshiro, and i believe that the beating he got was good for him. Do i believe him to be a bad guy ? Nop.

Even from the start, when my hate for him was much higher than now, he never came across as a villain. Not even close, not matter how you look at it. Worst he has done is given a cold shoulder to Setsuna for a prolonged period of time. And while that is more than enough to stimulate dislike and what not towards him, it still does not make him a "bad" guy.

Kazuya is the bad guy, which is bluntly obvious.
You didn't get my point at all.
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Old 2007-03-06, 13:53   Link #951
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Whether he has suffered enough or not, in order to redeem himself he has to do something, something for someone else sake. Up to this point he has never done anything for others sake, and you can not disagree with me about that.
So basically you want him to throw himself in front of a bus or do some other similar dangerous act of self-sacrifice in order to save someone before he redeems himself. Ignoring the large probability that this is likely to happen in the next few episodes anyway, I still think you've made the mistake of categorizing his character into mere good-or-evil and if he's not one, then by elimination he must be the other. That's a huge over simplification of his character. Obviously the picture is clear now with hindsight, but up until this point he hasn't been motivated by any negative or selfish motivations... he thought the AAs were a power that had to be sealed from humanity and he thought he'd been sent on a mission to accomplish that by his deceased brother whom he cherished. He admittedly may have been blinded by his idealism, but he could have no possible way of knowing that his ideals were as flawed as they were. Which is why I understand his actions and sympathize with him. As others have said, he was never "evil"... just misguided. And it's not like he didn't grapple with the idea that what he was doing may have been wrong after he started developing feelings for Kuu.

But there's a lot of grey in this series, Kyoshiro's character being a prime example, which is one of the series' strengths. If you try to view this series through a black-and-white-only lens, you oversimplify the situation and the characters and miss those grey areas that the series intends to explore. Fair enough if you don't like him. But it's unfair to his character if you categorize him as a "bad guy". It's more complex than that.
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Old 2007-03-06, 14:13   Link #952
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
But that last scene made no sense to me. Setsuna's (lack of) action sort of demands that she, too, has had her memory erased or that it was another surreal scene within the Cielo.
Not necessarily; it's been made pretty clear that, by herself, she can't do anything to Kazuya. Her master is who-knows-where, and she can't run away... so for now she stands around and waits.
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Old 2007-03-06, 14:28   Link #953
Sorrow-K
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Originally Posted by Vulcannis View Post
Not necessarily; it's been made pretty clear that, by herself, she can't do anything to Kazuya. Her master is who-knows-where, and she can't run away... so for now she stands around and waits.
Makes more sense to me to try to run, though. The only reason I can think of why she hasn't made a break for it is because she's trying to invent a plan to take Kuu with her, since she knows if she returns without Kuu, Kyoshiro would probably send her back to the front to rescue her. Obviously Kuu would resist, so such a thing would not be easy. But I think if I were Setsuna, standing there in front of an enemy and having to wait would send me insane.
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Old 2007-03-06, 17:16   Link #954
Kaoru Chujo
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I've made a page showing pics of the ten main characters with photos of their seiyuus:



There are some pretty interesting people there. For instance, Tarlotte is played by the same VA who played Taruto in Magical Mew Mew Taruto, Mochizuki Hisayo. Tanaka Atsuko, who plays Mika, was in Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion. Ogata Megumi, who plays Valticia, was Sailor Uranus. And, of course, Kaon and Himiko are played by Kawasumi Ayako and Shitaya Noriko, who played Chikane and Himeko in KnM. I've linked their names to pages with fuller info about each seiyuu and their roles.

There were a couple of things in episode 9 that made me think of Uta~Kata: the Cielo mecha reminded me of the some of the spirit figures in that show, and so did the line: "You are me, and I am you." And what do you know, the two shows have the same art director: Iijima Toshiharu, who also did art direction/design for such shows as Le Portrait de Petit Cossette, Hidamari Sketch, Nishi no Yoko Majou...and Yoake-mae yori Ruri Iro na ~Crescent Love~.
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Old 2007-03-06, 18:48   Link #955
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So much happened in episode 9 i dont even know where to begin. For one the fact that Kyoshiro's illusionary world was shattered by his brother was no surprise. The story that we were fed from the beginning was too neat of a package. Also, when the other brother appeared sometime back he made a point to tell Kyoshiro in not so many words that he was mistaken and he needed to let go of past. This a perfect example of what happens when we hold on too tight.

It sure was nice of Kazuya to prance even more especially after i mentioned in an earlier post how much it annoyed me LOL. But he did also explain things quite well and we can piece together a lot of things now. What i did not expect was Megingjord was the physical body of Kuu and Kuu is not even her name it Cielo. Kazuya was mentioning what happens to some humans who absorb AA particles i did not understand that

Correct me if im wrong someone. But it seems each AA is a incarnation of a season and they are all part of Kuu. The problem now is that each has taken on a personality of their own but Kazuya wants to reunite them. If thats true that means that there never should have been AA plural there should have been only 1 and that one Cielo/Kuu

Didnt expect Mika to die so easily and so fast even though i dont really feel bad for her, I hope Himiko is not dead but things are looking too good right as Kazuya is able to hold his own against the AA. He now has Kaon, Setsuna and Kuu. Bad guys 3 good whinny guys 0.

Im pissed i really wanted to see Kaon whoop some ass.
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Old 2007-03-06, 19:01   Link #956
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
Correct me if im wrong someone. But it seems each AA is a incarnation of a season and they are all part of Kuu. The problem now is that each has taken on a personality of their own but Kazuya wants to reunite them. If thats true that means that there never should have been AA plural there should have been only 1 and that one Cielo/Kuu
that is correct ~ we have the seasons ~

spring ~ (Waruteishia methinks)
summer ~ kaon
autumn ~ setsuna
winter ~ (Tarlotte)

kuu is the vessel for Waruteishia who was originally her soul ~
i guess kazuya is trying to form "Cielo" back together for his own needs..."beautiful" should i say

i dont think the problem in combining the "pieces" back together due to each of the AA's having their own personality...as i said before Waruteishia seems to have some brainwashing abilities...
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Old 2007-03-06, 19:19   Link #957
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Back when we first heard about Kyoshiro having a brother (Kazuya), i did mention that he probably has something to do with the link between Kuu being a AA - looks like i was right. :3
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Old 2007-03-06, 19:26   Link #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
that is correct ~ we have the seasons ~

spring ~ (Waruteishia methinks)
summer ~ kaon
autumn ~ setsuna
winter ~ (Tarlotte)

kuu is the vessel for Waruteishia who was originally her soul ~
i guess kazuya is trying to form "Cielo" back together for his own needs..."beautiful" should i say

i dont think the problem in combining the "pieces" back together due to each of the AA's having their own personality...as i said before Waruteishia seems to have some brainwashing abilities...
Thanks for confirmation deathkillz i forgot to mention that as the brainwashing ability. But here is my next question.

Since we now know the truth about Kuu and it obvious it was here in that tube in the flashback that means that Kuu is responsible for the catastrophe all those years ago. The question is why did it happen?
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Old 2007-03-06, 19:46   Link #959
Shiroth
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So yeah, episode 09 was not only a heart wrenching episodes, its the turning point in the story most of us have been waiting for. Easily one of the best episodes i've seen out of any series. Its interesting to see Waruteishia not being all that happy with the two 'kidnaps' so to say. That right there could be the turning point in next few episodes, though first we'll have to see Kyoshiro come to reality. Indeed it was very upsetting to see his hero turning out to be that kind of man, sure i seen it coming from a mile away, but i didn't think it would have this much effect on me. & to top it all of, Kuu doesn't remember him. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how Kyoshiro shall go about with this one, though what ever it shall be - he has my respect.

& yeah, i cried my heart out over Mika's death. I've loved her character over the length of this series upto now, and her reason for doing what she has been doing.

Oh, i've said it before - but Kazuya is the best character ever. & i'm shocked at all that his VA is my hero Jeremiah. Would anyone be able to make be one hell of a wonderful avatar of him please? :3

& don't forget people, the soundtrack for the series is released on the 21st of this month. A must buy if you ask me.
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Old 2007-03-06, 19:46   Link #960
Aurelia aurita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I've made a page showing pics of the ten main characters with photos of their seiyuus:



There are some pretty interesting people there. For instance, Tarlotte is played by the same VA who played Taruto in Magical Mew Mew Taruto, Mochizuki Hisayo. Tanaka Atsuko, who plays Mika, was in Ghost in the Shell and Evangelion. Ogata Megumi, who plays Valticia, was Sailor Uranus. And, of course, Kaon and Himiko are played by Kawasumi Ayako and Shitaya Noriko, who played Chikane and Himeko in KnM. I've linked their names to pages with fuller info about each seiyuu and their roles.
Don't forget that Ogata Megumi played the adult Valkyrie in UFO Princess Valkyrie, the character Waruteishia is based on.

Spoiler for Episode 10 preview:


For some reason, I still don't feel sorry for Kyoshiro, not a tiny bit. I don't think of Kazuya as a giant bastard either. I'm rather amused by his melodramatic speeches and poses.
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