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Old 2007-02-04, 21:32   Link #801
Ronin Aquila
Sky Warrior
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant
Age: 33
Bearing in mind that Vito Corleone (partriarch of the Godfather Saga) knew NOTHING except how to butcher, kill, steal and maim, and still manages to run a Highly Successful Olive Oil Company.

If you have a legion of followers who are willing to give up to life and limb for you, and who know how to add-minus-and-subrtrac, hell with all the resources pooled together any Ex-Warlord can easily open something like a successful chain of restaurants, courier service, sports gym or even a darned Art Gallery if he or she is so inclined to do so.

Some may say "too damn late now." But hell, with a legion of veterans who fought Bin Laden himself, I seriously doubt would anyone dare to crash a Saturday Night at "Balalaika's Russian Cuisine" without writing a will first. She is RICH and powerful enough to step off her high horse any time she wants now, with enough people afraid of her to allow her to do so without opposition.

Note that my previous post was not so much an attack on Crispy as it was a defence of Roberta who having no resources or power to be a good person, still tries to be one. And note her confession of murdering non-combatants was one of shame, not pride.

Crispy, on the other hand, did gleefully send a crossed out picture of Yukio-Chan to Rock, basically as a way of snarling "Haha, I win." And also bear in mind, she was going to butcher her even before she took the mantle of boss "just to be sure." (With her trademark snarl, of course). And even if Yukio-Chan DID turn the other cheek and not fight back, do you think Crispy would have spared her anyway? No sir she wouldn't have. Seriously, not even Ice-Cool My Chang takes this much unprofessional pleasure in being a boss. Crispy joined and stayed in the underworld because she likes and is proud of what she is, even if she did have the resources and followers to try anything else she could have wanted.
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Last edited by Ronin Aquila; 2007-02-04 at 22:06.
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Old 2007-02-04, 21:41   Link #802
Firefly00
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You do realize, [DOT].L, that I'll have to see if Otaku.com can't run those two figures to ground; they are apparently made of win. That aside, RA and VCV are proving again that BL can be thought-provoking (thanks, guys!).
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Old 2007-02-04, 22:56   Link #803
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila View Post
Bearing in mind that Vito Corleone (partriarch of the Godfather Saga) knew NOTHING except how to butcher, kill, steal and maim, and still manages to run a Highly Successful Olive Oil Company.

If you have a legion of followers who are willing to give up to life and limb for you, and who know how to add-minus-and-subrtrac, hell with all the resources pooled together any Ex-Warlord can easily open something like a successful chain of restaurants, courier service, sports gym or even a darned Art Gallery if he or she is so inclined to do so.

Some may say "too damn late now." But hell, with a legion of veterans who fought Bin Laden himself, I seriously doubt would anyone dare to crash a Saturday Night at "Balalaika's Russian Cuisine" without writing a will first. She is RICH and powerful enough to step off her high horse any time she wants now, with enough people afraid of her to allow her to do so without opposition.

Note that my previous post was not so much an attack on Crispy as it was a defence of Roberta who having no resources or power to be a good person, still tries to be one. And note her confession of murdering non-combatants was one of shame, not pride.

Crispy, on the other hand, did gleefully send a crossed out picture of Yukio-Chan to Rock, basically as a way of snarling "Haha, I win." And also bear in mind, she was going to butcher her even before she took the mantle of boss "just to be sure." (With her trademark snarl, of course). And even if Yukio-Chan DID turn the other cheek and not fight back, do you think Crispy would have spared her anyway? No sir she wouldn't have. Seriously, not even Ice-Cool My Chang takes this much unprofessional pleasure in being a boss. Crispy joined and stayed in the underworld because she likes and is proud of what she is, even if she did have the resources and followers to try anything else she could have wanted.
You are still avoiding the point.
Balalaika is a crime boss. She may or may not be able to quit, but as I said that wasn't the issue.
The issue is, Yukio chose to become a crime boss herself. Do you know what it mean? It means if she survived, Yukio would become just like Balalaika. She would kill others just like her, in just the same manner.

And turn the other cheek and not fight back? What do you mean by that? There is no mercy in the criminal underworld! Yukio as a Yakuza leader has only two choices; kill the competition, or be killed by the competion. Are you out of your mind, to think there is any logical reason why Balalaika would not kill Yukio? Just because she is a young girl?

I will say this as often as I need, Ronin; we are watching an anime about a bunch of criminals. This includes this "Yukio-chan" you so affectionately called. Yukio died because she lost the game of crime. If she lived, Yukio would spend the rest of her life selling weapons and drugs, and killing hundreds like anyone else in her profession. And yes, she would kill Balalaika and even Rock if need be.
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Old 2007-02-04, 23:20   Link #804
Ronin Aquila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You are still avoiding the point.
Balalaika is a crime boss. She may or may not be able to quit, but as I said that wasn't the issue.
The issue is, Yukio chose to become a crime boss herself. Do you know what it mean? It means if she survived, Yukio would become just like Balalaika. She would kill others just like her, in just the same manner.

And turn the other cheek and not fight back? What do you mean by that? There is no mercy in the criminal underworld! Yukio as a Yakuza leader has only two choices; kill the competition, or be killed by the competion. Are you out of your mind, to think there is any logical reason why Balalaika would not kill Yukio? Just because she is a young girl?

I will say this as often as I need, Ronin; we are watching an anime about a bunch of criminals. This includes this "Yukio-chan" you so affectionately called. Yukio died because she lost the game of crime. If she lived, Yukio would spend the rest of her life selling weapons and drugs, and killing hundreds like anyone else in her profession. And yes, she would kill Balalaika and even Rock if need be.
As admitted in my prvious post, the first of this series of insults (towards Crispy, that is) is a defence of Roberta.

As a Roberta fan, when someone who is still capable of remorse, decency and maternal love towards children is compared to the Female-Version-of-Shishio-Makoto with all the redeeming qualities removed, I was compelled to leap to her defence.

I only cited Yukio's death as an example of Crispy's inner hideousness, as showing what a horror of a human being (if she can be called that) Krispy is, I was attempting to establish a contrast that shows Roberta's (lesser) evil as benign in comparision. Even you, sir, stated that Krispy was going to smoke Yukio-Chan anyways even if she did not become a boss. Hence even if she did not fight back for her right to live (as she should), would it honestly be fair to say that its her fault she died. She cannot chose who her dad is, but that really shouldn't mean she should sit there and let someone who will kill her regardless kill her.

And evil as this universe is, you gotta admit the heart of what drives the engine of the Black Lagoon Universe is that even in a world of Darkness, there can be honor, decency and perhaps even kindness. People like Rock, Roberta and Rotton The Wizard (Funny how they all start with R) would not exist otherwise if this was not possible.

POST SCRIPT: I will admit (with some reluctance) that as I finished the series, my opinion of Revy has improved somewhat. She has finally accepted that Rock will be a fundamentally decent bloke no matter how much sewage he swims through, no longer holds him in contempt for it, and stands by him through his (failed) attempt of kindness. Two more brownie points for her when she showed (in her own blunt way) trigger-happy children for-whom-it-is-not-yet-too-late what it REALLY is like to become a Gunman, thereby saving them before they err down the wrong path.
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My Star-Wars-Mai-Hime Music Video!! Star Wars Springer!!

“Oh I love you Jesus, but only as a friend. You touched my heart but I hope that's where the touchin' ends. You're always lookin' over me when I need a higher power. But you better look at somethin' else when I'm in the shower.”

-The Idiotic Homophobic Country Western Singer from Late Night With Conan O'Brien.

Last edited by Ronin Aquila; 2007-02-04 at 23:50.
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Old 2007-02-05, 00:14   Link #805
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Did you ever wondered why Balalaika needed to kill Yukio? Or do you think she does it for fun?

Yeah, it sucked that Yukio was born with a Yakuza as her father, but no more sucked than Revy as a street thug or Balalaika as career soldier. And because she is heir to the Yakuza, she is a threat to Balalaika. That's the end of it. Fair? Of course it is not fair, but you can ask Balalaika about if it was fair that she got her scar and that Soviet Union collapsed, or is it fair Roberta's own comrades betrayed her. It was not fair that the Twins became who they were either, but that's just the way it happens.

It's one thing to be in an unfair situation, but it's entirely another for someone expect to be treated differently because of it. There is no charity in crime. As a Yakuza, Yukino either learn to survive or die. She didn't learn fast enough, so she died. Balalaika was playing within the same rules, except she learned faster.

No, I am not saying it's her fault Yukio died. I am saying she lost so she died. She tried her hardest, I am sure. But her best wasn't good enough. You don't get to first place by just trying; you get there for being the best. Your logic is flawed; Balalaika was just doing her job, and Yukio hers. People tend to die when criminals clash with deadly weapons, that is all.

Unless you believe something unjust happened, and that there is a specific person responsible you can blame? There isn't. There was never meant to be any justice to speak of when two criminal organisations clash, so throwing blame around is meaningless.
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Old 2007-02-08, 12:30   Link #806
Ronin Aquila
Sky Warrior
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jedi Temple, Coruscant
Age: 33
Yeah, but dosen't make fantasies of putting Crispy feet first through a rusty-bladed wheat shredder any less fun...

Yeah, Crispy!! Practice What You Preach!! Let's see YOU "stop-crying-idiot" when YOU lose BOTH legs and bleed like a fountain, you ugly burnt-up piece of Child-Murdering Russian-Crap!!

Nothing personal, but I live life with a ZERO patience policy/principle for those who make young children cry and take pleasure (or at least, in Crispy's case, satisfaction) at the result. By all means kill your enemy if that is necessary, but staying silent and LETTING them cry as they die is much more mature (and honorable, not that Crispy gives a flying fuck about that) than gloating and telling them to shut up.

Anyways.

Spoiler for New Black Lagoon character from the manga:
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My Star-Wars-Mai-Hime Music Video!! Star Wars Springer!!

“Oh I love you Jesus, but only as a friend. You touched my heart but I hope that's where the touchin' ends. You're always lookin' over me when I need a higher power. But you better look at somethin' else when I'm in the shower.”

-The Idiotic Homophobic Country Western Singer from Late Night With Conan O'Brien.

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-09 at 09:36. Reason: Don't forget spoiler tags
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Old 2007-02-08, 18:32   Link #807
Drytchnath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila View Post
Yeah, but dosen't make fantasies of putting Crispy feet first through a rusty-bladed wheat shredder any less fun...

Yeah, Crispy!! Practice What You Preach!! Let's see YOU "stop-crying-idiot" when YOU lose BOTH legs and bleed like a fountain, you ugly burnt-up piece of Child-Murdering Russian-Crap!!

Nothing personal, but I live life with a ZERO patience policy/principle for those who make young children cry and take pleasure (or at least, in Crispy's case, satisfaction) at the result. By all means kill your enemy if that is necessary, but staying silent and LETTING them cry as they die is much more mature (and honorable, not that Crispy gives a flying fuck about that) than gloating and telling them to shut up.

Anyways.

Spoiler for New Black Lagoon character from the manga:
Spoiler:

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-09 at 09:39. Reason: Don't quote spoiler
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Old 2007-02-09, 06:35   Link #808
Madoss
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Spoiler for New Black Lagoon character from the manga:

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-09 at 09:43. Reason: Don't forget spoiler tags
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Old 2007-02-11, 04:25   Link #809
Cal-Reflector
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Originally Posted by Madoss View Post
Spoiler for New Black Lagoon character from the manga:
Hello fellow BL fans, long time no see.
Spoiler for next season/manga:
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Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-11 at 09:54. Reason: Don't forget spoiler tags.
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Old 2007-02-11, 07:32   Link #810
Madoss
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to cal-reflector's question

Spoiler:
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Old 2007-02-11, 21:52   Link #811
Skane
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin Aquila View Post
Yeah, but dosen't make fantasies of putting Crispy feet first through a rusty-bladed wheat shredder any less fun...

Yeah, Crispy!! Practice What You Preach!! Let's see YOU "stop-crying-idiot" when YOU lose BOTH legs and bleed like a fountain, you ugly burnt-up piece of Child-Murdering Russian-Crap!!

Nothing personal, but I live life with a ZERO patience policy/principle for those who make young children cry and take pleasure (or at least, in Crispy's case, satisfaction) at the result. By all means kill your enemy if that is necessary, but staying silent and LETTING them cry as they die is much more mature (and honorable, not that Crispy gives a flying fuck about that) than gloating and telling them to shut up.

Anyways.

Spoiler for New Black Lagoon character from the manga:
That line uttered by Balalaika was not due to heartlessness... and the tone used by her in combination with the aftermath scene painted a rarely seen side of her. That of uneasiness. Balalaika did not enjoy killing Hansel. It is the one scene of the series where we get to see the more humane side of Balalaika. Keep in mind the whole conversation she had with her right-hand man.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-02-12, 06:33   Link #812
Late
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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I really liked the original Black Lagoon (first season) but I was kind of dissapointed when watching the second season. I would've liked them to stay at the south seas and not go to Tokyo. Second season was kind of boring sometimes, it had it's moments but it wasn't even close to the first season.

And I'm kind of dissapointed that _nothing_ happened between Rock and Revy.

That engrish was also quite a turnoff but I guess that is one of those things you have to endure when you're an anime fan.
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Old 2007-02-13, 13:35   Link #813
kauldron26
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i still cannot fathom the fact that some people complain about the pacing of season 2. How in the world can people complain about character development, developed story lines, insights on social commentary, philosophical contemplations and metaphors. Black Lagoon would not achieve greatness if it was all about shooting, and revy. Black Lagoon is not about the rock, revy, dutch and benny. It is about the concept of darkness, the meaning of evil. Why do people become evil? can people change? how does the world make people evil? I showed the first 3 episodes of season 2 in my existentialism class last semester, and my professors and classmates where shaken. Im not going to pretend that i dont get mad when people complain about certain animes, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But for the last black lagoon is not an action anime. people keep misunderstanding that. It simply uses action as a tool to give insight on the darkness of humanity.

Its like saying Cowboy Bebop is about crazy space action. Cowboy Bebop is about emotional scars. Every character has a fucked up past, pasts they have left behind and they would like to forget. But as a famous author said, "you can forget about the the past but past does not forget about us!" Another example is Samurai Champloo, IT IS NOT ABOUT SAMURAI ACTION!!!! the whole show is about redemption. Finding out your purpose in life, trying to make up for ur sins. Do u think Jin and Mugen were following fuu around because they were bored?? they were full of fucking burden. And that journey was simply a way for them to deal with their issues. Evangelion is not simply about giant robots fighting either.

Therein lies the greatness of black lagoon. As entertaining as it can be, its purpose does not revolve around that. Hiroe Rei is simply giving insights on the dark sides of the world that we dont know, the evil of man, and if redemption is ever possible for these bad muthafuckas.
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Old 2007-02-15, 14:54   Link #814
hitokirigirl
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Friggin awesome show. Just finished the whole 24 eps, and I really missed some good "shoot'em up" anime, since Gungrave and Hellsing...

Gunslinging nuns, chinese cutie talking trash, two-hands masters (Revy and Chan), twisted russian bitch, and don't forget the young salaryman mesmerized by the sight of the daily chaos...

Excellent anime, way more efficient than any illegal drug
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Old 2007-02-17, 01:03   Link #815
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
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You know... There was a time when I wondered why there was such a thing as a "Zeon fanboy." But when I saw Balalaika for the first time, I knew—right then and there—that there was no turning back for me. I think I finally understand why. Maybe.

It might not be exactly a suitable comparison, but it just made sense to me in a way. With that said, I think one of the more interesting characters in BL has got to be the Russian mob boss herself. I hope we get more glimpses of what makes her tick—her motivations or reasons, her feelings—things that we have only seen quite recently.
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Old 2007-02-17, 01:47   Link #816
Cal-Reflector
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You know... There was a time when I wondered why there was such a thing as a "Zeon fanboy." But when I saw Balalaika for the first time, I knew—right then and there—that there was no turning back for me. I think I finally understand why. Maybe.

It might not be exactly a suitable comparison, but it just made sense to me in a way. With that said, I think one of the more interesting characters in BL has got to be the Russian mob boss herself. I hope we get more glimpses of what makes her tick—her motivations or reasons, her feelings—things that we have only seen quite recently.
I came close to becoming a Zeon fanboy, until I started reading the informative and educational official manga series; then I recognized that I was merely a Char and MS-06 Zaku fanboy. Char resembles another rogue prince with revenge on his mind who has been making a name for himself recently in anime.

Balalaika... while I do dig her gritty personality and character design, is but one of very many interesting characters in the show for me. At this point she is more interesting to me than Rock and Revi, who though complicated at least have their emotions and motives made far more transparent to the viewer. Yukio was interesting, Gin was likable but simple, Hansel and Gretel were very, very interesting as characters (the psychosis! the dementia! the brutalized innocence!), Roberta...... well, we'll be getting far more of her in season 2(3?).

Who am I forgetting? Oh yes, the Loveless boy. With the latest events surrounding him and his deliciously storied background, I hope he will develop into a plot-driving force in Black Lagoon. No, I do not like Shota, but his nobility, his forced participation in this black and bloody world, and his association with Roberta combines to form tremendous story potential.

BTW, Kujoe; are there alot of sophisticated anime fans from/in the Phillpines? I know at least three myself.
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Old 2007-02-17, 02:25   Link #817
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
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Originally Posted by Cal-Reflector View Post
BTW, Kujoe; are there alot of sophisticated anime fans from/in the Phillpines? I know at least three myself.
Of course. We have Animax for one thing, which offers relatively new titles from time to time, and a few of the local networks dub various titles in the Filipino language. However, I will admit that just like anywhere else, "fans" will come in many shapes and sizes—from your casual viewer to your 4chan troll.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what's the state of the current scene since I'm actually in Canada right now.
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Old 2007-03-03, 02:51   Link #818
bloodwork
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my motto now is make a season 3 or else
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Old 2007-03-06, 22:02   Link #819
TigerII
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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^^ No material for season 3. The show has caught up with the manga. Volume 7 is being made but stilld on't expect alot from that.

Was a good show just finished. I liked the last part from Edna. Poor Revy, she obviously likes Rock but he just does not seem interested in her.
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Old 2007-03-07, 05:58   Link #820
Red Herring
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How could any warm blooded male NOT be interested in Revy.

This is a statement, not a question...
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