300

[monir]

It's a new movie that I'll be watching in iMax tonight! Good thing I reserved those tickets several weeks ago because the theater has already sold out for the next couple of weeks. Even though it is based on a true historical fact where 300 Spartans hold of a Persian army, I don't give a toot about the history. I'm in it for the visual and mindless action with plenty of blood and gore. Some of the reviews also mentioned that the history buffs who want to watch it for the history, should stay at home since the history book was eaten by a dog.

Looking forward to it.

[WanderingKnight]

I dislike very much movies that claim to be historical but lack any sense of historical basis in them. Like when I went to watch Apocalypto, I mean, COME ON, Gibson, Mayans disappeared WAY before Spaniards came to America.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

I dislike very much movies that claim to be historical but lack any sense of historical basis in them. Like when I went to watch Apocalypto, I mean, COME ON, Gibson, Mayans disappeared WAY before Spaniards came to America.

Spoiler:

This isn't quite that bad. Technically it's based on a graphic novel (300 by Frank Miller), not on the historical event of the Battle of Thermopylae. The graphic novel itself is mostly based on Herodotus' actual historical accounts of the time (most historians discount those accounts as being inaccurate - particularly in regards to the size of the Persian army). Some of the lines in the movie are right out of Herodotus (for example, when Dienekes tells the Persian that they will fight in the shade (because the Persians arrows will blot out the sun). Rather than calling it a historical movie, I would say it is a movie based on a historical account (and inherits the bias' of that account). While it is probably historically inaccurate - at least it's following (more or less) the original account.

The true story of the Battle of Thermopylae is a good one, but some things are exaggerated in the ancient accounts. Most historians (while still agreeing that the Greeks were horribly outnumbered) now think that there were far fewer Persians than ancient accounts claim. Also, the movie really only follows the 300 Spartans, but it's important to note that other Greeks were at the battle. However, without question, the Spartans were the force that spearheaded and drove the entire battle.

Personally I love this era in history, and I love this graphic novel. While it's not an accurate representation of the battle, per se, the original graphic novel is a great piece of work, working on a lot of themes including the cost of preserving democracy. Like Monir, I am really looking forward to the movie (probably more than any other movie this year), and am very jealous that he has IMAX tickets (they've been sold out in Dallas forever).

[WanderingKnight]

Well, if it's like that, I won't have many problems. The real problem I have is when the deviations are incredibly inaccurate (like the aforementioned Gibson movie). If it has some sort of basis, even if it is a subjective account, I won't have any problem with it

[monir]

More on where the script for the movie came from in Wiki. Didn't know it was based on a visual novel until Rooboy mentioned it here.

Originally Posted by rooboy

for example, when Dienekes tells the Persian that they will fight in the shade (because the Persians arrows will blot out the sun

The best dialogue I've ever heard. I decided I would watch this movie as soon as I heard that exchange of dialogue in the trailer.

Here is a trailer for those other action fans who has yet to see it:

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by monir

More on where the script for the movie came from in Wiki. Didn't know it was based on a visual novel until Rooboy mentioned it here.


The best dialogue I've ever heard. I decided I'll watch this movie as soon as I heard that exchange of dialogue in the trailer.

Spoiler:

There's actually better dialogue (though I have no idea if it made it into the movie).

Xerxes initially sent envoys to each of the Greek city states saying he only wanted some shade and water. The Thebans (I think it was the Thebans) threw the envoy into a dry well and told him to dig it out himself. The Spartans threw him into a pit and left him to die. This is the part in the movie where Leonidas shouts out, "This is Sparta!" >Rawr!<

I'm not a huge Frank Miller fan, but when he does stuff like this and Sin City, I always enjoy it.

EDIT: More on the graphic novel from wiki. More on the Battle of Thermopylae from wiki. Also, if you buy pretty much any Ancient battles history book, it will probably have some section on the Battle of Thermopylae (it's one of the most famous battles in history). I've read about it in at least three books in the last two years.

[monir]

Originally Posted by rooboy

EDIT: More on the graphic novel from wiki. More on the Battle of Thermopylae from wiki. Also, if you buy pretty much any Ancient battles history book, it will probably have some section on the Battle of Thermopylae (it's one of the most famous battles in history). I've read about it in at least three books in the last two years.

I first read about this battle when I was in Junior High. With the short attention span of a mouse, I was pretty captivated by that story and that says a lot. Spartans are cool no matter how exaggerated the story has become after the retelling of it in the following few thousand years! History never felt boring when I read about them.

[rooboy]

Spoiler:

Actually I think this story is moving in the opposite direction. As time goes on we learn that more and more of the original accounts were exaggerated and start putting realistic figures next to them.

Herodotus claimed that there were something like 3 million Persians (I believe), and that didn't include support - that was just the troops. Now the numbers generally range from 400,000 to as much as 1.5 million. Either way most believe the Greeks were actually at around Herodotus' reported 7,000 total until Leonidas sent away most of the troops.

Anyway, most of the story is fictionalized, but a lot of it is fictionalized in the earlier accounts. When I first read the graphic novel, some of the things I remember that were different than the accounts included the misshapen dwarf and the giant guy the Immortals brought with them. A lot of it is also obviously played up more in the movie than it would have been in real life.

I doubt I'll get to see it until Saturday, but I can't wait.

[kayos]

Well considering the fact that they held their position because it was in a small strait between mountains or cliffs. The Persians had the numbers but the Spartans had better fighter, and the Persians were restricted to send small numbers at a time cause of the strait. I don't know which battle it was but that's all I remember from the great Spartan Wars where so few defeated so many.

[WanderingKnight]

Originally Posted by kayos

Well considering the fact that they held their position because it was in a small strait between mountains or cliffs. The Persians had the numbers but the Spartans had better fighter, and the Persians were restricted to send small numbers at a time cause of the strait. I don't know which battle it was but that's all I remember from the great Spartan Wars where so few defeated so many.

Yeah, OK, but you have to consider that they had to be extremely good fighters. Facing a couple of enemies in a row, I can concede, but for wiping out such huge numbers you'd need godlike stamina.

But then again, I'm not fully informed about the battle and I'm too lazy to look for any info on it.

[kayos]

Legend has it that Spartans train their young ones at an early age to be fighters, and don't forget they also toss their weak ones over the cliff. Hence only strong fighters survived.

They have no tolerance for weak males, pretty much.

Saw it on the History Channel.

[WanderingKnight]

Originally Posted by kayos

Legend has it that Spartans train their young ones at an early age to be fighters, and don't forget they also toss their weak ones over the cliff. Hence only strong fighters survived.

They have no tolerance for weak males, pretty much.

Saw it on the History Channel.

Yeah, they were some of the most diligent barbarians around ('barbarian' taken in a figurative sense xP). And also, any warrior that dared to run in battle would be virtually ostracized from society, as no one would ever speak to him again.

Also, they were such silent people, that the term "laconic speech" was coined after the people of Laconia, one of the Spartan regions. Someone who speaks laconically is basically someone who delivers short, straight answers and doesn't take too much time to delve into the complexities of language.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Yeah, OK, but you have to consider that they had to be extremely good fighters. Facing a couple of enemies in a row, I can concede, but for wiping out such huge numbers you'd need godlike stamina.

But then again, I'm not fully informed about the battle and I'm too lazy to look for any info on it.

Spoiler:

The Battle of Thermopylae is famous for showing that tactics and superior training can turn the tide against any numbers. It is surmised that the only reason they lost is because a Greek (I can't remember his name - in the movie he's a stunted dwarf, though no historical account indicates this to be true) showed Xerxes how to come around behind the position they were defending. The Spartans _were_ extremely good fighters, renowned among all the city states for it. When Xerxes realized he wasn't going to force his way into the pass (he initially sent newly conquered fodder to try to take the pass through sheer numbers), he sent the Immortals in (fanatical Persian warriors - in the movie they're the ones wearing the funny masks). The Spartans slaughtered them. On the second day when the Persians attacked, morale was crippled as they had to climb over the bodies of their own men.

The battle was so bad for the Persians that Xerxes desecrated Leonidas' body upon recovering it - a very abnormal behavior for the Persians, who typically treated their defeated enemies with special reverence. Most importantly, Thermopylae literally turned the tide of the war. Xerxes expected to roll through Greece (as, indeed, he had through much of the ancient world). He offered Leonidas the kingship of all Greece if he would stand aside. Leonidas replied that it was better to die for a free Greece then be king over all the city states. Xerxes then demanded that Leonidas surrender his army's weapons, and Leonidas said, "Come take them." That is now the motto of the Greek first army corp.

[Slade xTekno]

That really could have used a spoiler tag. T_T It kind of deflated the movie for me.

[kayos]

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

That really could have used a spoiler tag. T_T It kind of deflated the movie for me.

Don't worry none of us have seen it yet. It's only historical events. I bet Frank Miller has his own point of views and it's based on his novel with some part relating to the historical events... I think.

Knowing the history of things won't spoiler all the blood and gore action scene that everyone is going to see it for. I'm going to go see it tomorrow after class.

[Knightmare213]

So far, the Rotten Tomatoes, a website that collects and averages movie critics' score upon a certain movie, 300 received 63 out of 100. Couple of critics blasted the movie for being unfaithful to actual historical events that happened.

Sometimes, I think the movie critics are less informed than we are.

The movie, in the first place, wasn't based on the historical facts. It was based on Frank Miller's comic book. Some critics can't seem to get past that.

For those you'll be seeing this movie in an iMax theater, I completely envy you. I had a chance of seeing a documentary in an iMax theater and it kicked ass.

I suppose I'll be watching this movie in a normal silver screen soon.

[aFlipGuy]

i saw the movie last saturday at a movie premiere =D

the action was done really well

as for the history part...i thought they didnt do a bad job since most of it were true.

Spoiler:

from xerxes not dying from that spear leonidas threw but piercing his face to amuse the audience, to person who betrays the 300 spartans

i thought they were pretty accurate w/ historical events.

i really dont wanna say more because it would suck if i gave it away.

has anyone read Gates of Fire? it was about the 300 spartans at thermopylea...the story is prolly more accurate than the movie 300 when it came to historical facts but if you love the movie, i suggest you pick up the book also for more spartan action =D

[Vexx]

The best way to take this movie is as a "tall tale" told at the fireside by an old grandpa that survived the event. Lots of hyperbole, liberal intrusions by the gods, and amazing events.

Kind of even the reconstructed deconstruction movie "Arthur" of recent yore with those amazing battle sequences on the ice and at the climax....

tall tales, yarrrrrrrr.

[Slade xTekno]

kayos: I've heard of the battle, but I've been avoiding the details because I heard this movie was coming out. He also makes references to the movie in the post.

Knightmare213: I've heard that, too, but by all accounts, it is very faithful to the graphic novel.

[aFlipGuy]

heh vex ^____^ you're sharp

Spoiler:

the story is narrated by a surving spartan who was at the battle field. leonidas sent him away when the other army who was aiding them retreated. he gives him a necklace to return to his queen that she gave to him on the day of their departure to the hot gates.

k no more spoiler?