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Old 2007-03-14, 16:27   Link #61
Kaoru Chujo
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Great stuff from rooboy. The term used in the Japanese on Video Research's site is a transliteration of "people meter," so I would be surprised if it was not exactly the same device as Nielsen uses. And the site does talk about measuring people as well as households, so I think people may log in in some way, too. So that would suggest that PVR'd shows are at least discounted in the ratings because an individual did not log in at the time they were on, or even not counted at all.

I didn't notice the VR site talking about ratings not equaling popularity, but for some reason it kept repeating that ratings do not equal quality. Duh.

And I like Destinyblade's point that most people seem to like "reality" (spurious as it may often be) in their shows, and anime deals a lot in fantasy. In fact, I myself don't think anime does reality very well, although others differ. NANA is the best fairly realistic show I can think of. The gritty mystery/adventure shows tend to fall flat for me. (Moonlight Mile is shaping up as an exception, by the way.)

And I also appreciate solomon's point that a lot of anime sticks in the otaku mold. I think SHnY and Simoun are great shows, but the first clearly uses a lot of otaku referents, and the second has yuri surface elements that put off a lot of anime-watchers, to say nothing of the general public.
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Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2007-03-14 at 16:40.
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Old 2007-03-14, 17:45   Link #62
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wao View Post
It is on the Geocities site. http://www.geocities.jp/animesityouritu/2006b.html
[...]
A lot of shows are there, you're jsut not looking properly
Please, wao, a little mercy for us Japanese illiterates in the audience.

Part of the problem is that the times listed at Mahou didn't match up with the ratings data. Mahou reports Bartender running on Sundays at 1:45 am, but in the ratings data it appears at 26:25 on Saturday. It wasn't obvious to me what a time like 26:25 on Saturday means; is it 2:25 am on Saturday, or 2:25 am on Sunday? In either case, it wasn't listed at 25:45 which I presume is what 1:45 am would translate to in this (somewhat-wacky) time scheme.

I really did try, but not having a reading knowlege of Japanese, and the fact that the sources didn't match, made this a more difficult task. Also the relationship between the network codes and the names of the networks isn't obvious either; for example, Fuji somehow becomes CX.

According to Mahou, Saiunkoku Monogatari aired on Saturday mornings at 9:00 am (!) on NHK/BS2 beginning on April 8, 2006. Only one show is listed in that time slot in the ratings data, one that translates to "Super star fleet [seiza] X" according to Google, which was shown on channel "TX" and had ratings for weeks prior to 4/8/06. There are other entries for NHK shows, with the code "NHK," but not one for SaiMono, I guess.

On ratings methods:
Back in the early to mid-80's I worked on a foundation-sponsored project to develop an alternative to "head-count" ratings based on viewers' opinions about the show they were watching, and their behavior while it was on. This is probably what Nielsen means by "popularity" in the material rooboy cites. These so-called "qualitative" ratings are used in many other countries, including Japan, but never caught on in the US. It's use in Japan is probably a reason for the ratings != popularity refrain to which Kaoru Chujo refers.

We could actually show that people were more likely to watch ads in programs to which they paid higher levels of attention, but advertisers weren't interested. Qualitative data on programs is still collected in the US by programmers, networks, and advertisers, but usually through broad surveys like roo suggests, not through a ratings instrument.

What did become the standard for "qualitative" information in the US, if you can call it that, is better demographics, especially via the "people meter." Ratings were traditionally collected at the household level with meters attached to every TV in the household. People meters include separate buttons for each household member who are supposed to "log in" when they start viewing and "log out" when they leave. Obviously this procedure raises considerable questions about the accuracy of the data, since it depends on the active cooperation of the viewers in the sampled households. There were a number of efforts to develop "passive" people meters that somehow would be able to sense which people were present in the room without active cooperation, but they always seemed to founder on tasks like differentiating between small children and large dogs! Nowadays we could probably just embed RFID tags in each person and let the meters detect those.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the numbers reported on the Geocities site are household figures and thus include DVR recordings as well as real humans. Making sure that ratings meters collect data from all viewing sources, including DVDs, games, etc., has been a high priority in the television research community for many years now.

Has anyone seen comparable figures for shows that run in [adult swim] in the US? What does something like Inuyasha or FLCL draw?
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Old 2007-03-14, 19:42   Link #63
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At the toonzone forums, they list the ratings every week. Adult Swim themselves broadcast the top 3 in a bumper normallly sometime during the week.
Big draws like bleach normally pull about 300K
When FMA was first running it pulled around 600K, then there was a large lull in it's run and huge dropoff in numbers
Inu Yasha also pulled 600K very regularly, i think even around a million viewers sometimes (if i can recall correctly)

In short though, adult swim anime is beaten out by it's comedy show ratings
Family Guy and Boondocks used to EASILY pull 1 million viewers, the anime numbers have really leveled off.
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Old 2007-03-14, 20:24   Link #64
Siegel Clyne
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Inukami, Wulong, Haruhi, Utawarerumono TV Audience Ratings on TV Aichi, Nagoya, Japan

I could not find television audience ratings for the Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu animated series in the Kantou (Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, etc.) and Kansai regions (Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, etc.), as a whole, listed anywhere.

Someone last summer, however, did post on 2ch television audience ratings for four late night anime television series broadcasted on TV Aichi, Nagoya, Japan - including Suzumiya Haruhi. They reportedly got the data through the National Diet Library.

TV Aichi

1.3 1.2 1.9 1.3 1.9 1.7 1.4 0.9 1.5 1.9 1.5 1.3 1.0 1.9 Inukami!

1.2 1.1 1.5 *.* 1.4 1.6 1.2 0.8 1.3 1.9 *.* 1.4 0.7 2.1 [Kakutou Bijin] Wulong (Fighting Beauty Wulong)

1.0 0.9 1.7 1.4 1.2 0.9 1.0 0.7 1.0 1.8 1.0 1.4 1.1 2.3 [Suzumiya] Haruhi [no Yuuutsu] (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)

1.0 0.8 1.5 0.4 1.1 0.6 0.5 0.2 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.5 0.3 *.* Utaware[rumono]


A 2ch poster observes, Nagoya (in the Chuubu region) is similar to the Kantou and Kansai regions, isn't it?
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Old 2007-03-14, 20:44   Link #65
rooboy
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Good points, Seiji, but I have to point out one thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the numbers reported on the Geocities site are household figures and thus include DVR recordings as well as real humans. Making sure that ratings meters collect data from all viewing sources, including DVDs, games, etc., has been a high priority in the television research community for many years now.
There's a difference between collecting a DVR rating and a video game/DVD rating though (I didn't think to mention the fact that they actually monitor when you're watching something on television that isn't actually a television channel, good catch ). When they collect a video game/DVD rating, they're simply reflecting the fact that you're not watching any programming. When they collect a DVR rating, there's another step involved.

Meters (at least in the US) are smart enough to differentiate between when you're watching a show and when you're recording it on a DVR. The advertiser cares when you watch it, not when you record it. In that case, the ratings reflect when you watched it, not when it was recorded. It is possible that the Japanese system does not distinguish between the two, but the Nielsen has been collecting that information for years now, and prior to doing so, it didn't reflect DVR numbers at all (they were simply excluded).

Again, generally ratings that are given do not usually include the DVR (or at most they include Live + Same Day - not Live + Same Week). If they were including the other numbers, they almost always point out that those are the ratings they're displaying (and the time-frame involved). When a plain number is given, it's almost always Live and households (instead of demographics).

Now, onto the more interesting thing about what you said (your foundation work in the 80s). TiVOs actually have a feature where you can rate the programming (giving it up to three thumbs up or three thumbs down). I wish they could collate that information to try to get a more qualitative number.

Amusingly my television is on right now and nominally I'm "watching" it, but as you can probably tell from the length of my post - I may not be watching all that closely .
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Old 2007-03-14, 20:56   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Part of the problem is that the times listed at Mahou didn't match up with the ratings data. Mahou reports Bartender running on Sundays at 1:45 am, but in the ratings data it appears at 26:25 on Saturday. It wasn't obvious to me what a time like 26:25 on Saturday means; is it 2:25 am on Saturday, or 2:25 am on Sunday? In either case, it wasn't listed at 25:45 which I presume is what 1:45 am would translate to in this (somewhat-wacky) time scheme.
26:25 on Saturday would be equivalent to 2:25am on Sunday early morning. It's somewhat logical from an end-user perspective, though unusual to us. The misalignment of times was because the first episode of Bartender aired 40-minutes later than its usual 1:45am timeslot. Somehow that stuck on the ratings report, even though it wasn't the usual airing time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
According to Mahou, Saiunkoku Monogatari aired on Saturday mornings at 9:00 am (!) on NHK/BS2 beginning on April 8, 2006. Only one show is listed in that time slot in the ratings data, one that translates to "Super star fleet [seiza] X" according to Google, which was shown on channel "TX" and had ratings for weeks prior to 4/8/06. There are other entries for NHK shows, with the code "NHK," but not one for SaiMono, I guess.
Yeah, probably because (as has been mentioned) they don't tend to gather ratings for Broadcast Satellite stations. Since they're basically Pay TV channels, you'd expect the ratings to be low in terms of overall percentage, even if they're good for the particular network.

Really, as has been said, TV ratings are really quite inconsequential as a measure of overall anime series popularity for most shows.
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Old 2007-03-14, 21:33   Link #67
Siegel Clyne
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Kouhaku, Sports, Miyazaki Draw High Japanese TV Ratings

According to Video Research Ltd., NHK's annual New Year's Eve special Kouhaku Uta Gassen (Red and White Song Contest), a number of sports events, and broadcast premieres of Miyazaki Hayao animated blockbusters typically receive among the highest television audience ratings in Japan.

When the soccer/football craze was presumably at its height in Japan, the television broadcast of the 2002 FIFA World Cup game between Japan and Russia on Fuji TV, Sunday, June 9, 2002, 8:00 PM - 10:54 PM (20:00 - 22:54) scored a television audience rating of 66.1% in the Kantou region of Japan.

Last edited by Siegel Clyne; 2007-03-14 at 23:00.
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Old 2007-03-14, 21:52   Link #68
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Following Tv Asahi ratings every year I have observed the japanese veiwer always gives emphasis on nostalgia . The top ten shows in Japan are stark contrast to ANN's Veiwer's Ranking
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Old 2007-03-15, 02:39   Link #69
SeijiSensei
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Reminiscence on Qualitative Ratings

Spoiler for Long-winded, and perhaps OT, reply to rooboy's comments about ratings:
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Old 2007-03-15, 09:11   Link #70
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Spoiler for Yes, probably now OT:
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Old 2007-03-15, 12:18   Link #71
Kaoru Chujo
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Check out eggplant's posts in this thread for an idea of DVD sales in Japan. The post I've linked to shows how very successful Suzumiya Haruhi was on disk, for example. His following post shows that Code Geass started with a bang.
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Old 2007-03-17, 03:06   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegel Clyne View Post
I could not find television audience ratings for the Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu animated series in the Kantou (Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, etc.) and Kansai regions (Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, etc.), as a whole, listed anywhere.

Someone last summer, however, did post on 2ch television audience ratings for four late night anime television series broadcasted on TV Aichi, Nagoya, Japan - including Suzumiya Haruhi. They reportedly got the data through the National Diet Library.

TV Aichi

1.3 1.2 1.9 1.3 1.9 1.7 1.4 0.9 1.5 1.9 1.5 1.3 1.0 1.9 Inukami!

1.2 1.1 1.5 *.* 1.4 1.6 1.2 0.8 1.3 1.9 *.* 1.4 0.7 2.1 [Kakutou Bijin] Wulong (Fighting Beauty Wulong)

1.0 0.9 1.7 1.4 1.2 0.9 1.0 0.7 1.0 1.8 1.0 1.4 1.1 2.3 [Suzumiya] Haruhi [no Yuuutsu] (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)

1.0 0.8 1.5 0.4 1.1 0.6 0.5 0.2 0.8 0.8 0.8 0.5 0.3 *.* Utaware[rumono]


A 2ch poster observes, Nagoya (in the Chuubu region) is similar to the Kantou and Kansai regions, isn't it?
Oh my gosh Haruhi got freaking owned in the ratings, but not as bad as Utawarerumono. Maybe its not as popular as everybody thought it was. At least in terms of the TV Broadcast. Hell it was even beaten out by Fighting Beauty Wulong routinely and the highest rated episode is equivalent to about the lowest rated Code Geass (It's logical popularity successor on the Internets in my mind). Speaking of which, what is with the psycho sales for Code Geass DVD's 1 and 2 which only contain one episode each. If this rate keeps up the series will sell more episodes than any other series this year combined. WTH?!!!!

@ Nightengale Are you serious about the GSD recaps outselling Haruhi DVD's, I mean if thats true its both hilarious and kind of sad at the same time. Then again, nothing beats Gundam, like ever. Even the Zeta Gundam Compilation movies of a series made 22 years ago that nobody really remembers of which 3 DVDs were made, outsold Haruhi so it's not a fair comparison per se. If it counted as a TV series than they would be in second place ahead of GSD. Still what a weird world.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2007-03-17 at 03:38.
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Old 2007-03-17, 03:45   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Oh my gosh Haruhi got freaking owned in the ratings, but not as bad as Utawarerumono. Maybe its not as popular as everybody thought it was. At least in terms of the TV Broadcast. Hell it was even beaten out by Fighting Beauty Wulong routinely and the highest rated episode is equivalent to about the lowest rated Code Geass (It's logical popularity successor on the Internets in my mind). Speaking of which, what is with the psycho sales for Code Geass DVD's 1 and 2 which only contain one episode each. If this rate keeps up the series will sell more episodes than any other series this year combined. WTH?!!!!

@ Nightengale Are you serious about the GSD recaps outselling Haruhi DVD's, I mean if thats true its both hilarious and kind of sad at the same time. What a weird world.
Well, Haruhi having low ratings isn't material in the argument for most cases, since television broadcast are like advertisements for the DVDs and merchandises anyway, in which Haruhi was very strong at, second only to single movies and Seed Destiny.

Spoiler for posted by eggplant in the sales thread:
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Old 2007-03-17, 03:52   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Well, Haruhi having low ratings isn't material in the argument for most cases, since television broadcast are like advertisements for the DVDs and merchandises anyway, in which Haruhi was very strong at, second only to single movies and Seed Destiny.

Spoiler for posted by eggplant in the sales thread:
Wait... why did the last volume containing the some of if not the worst episodes of the entire series sell better than the rest of GSD.

I'll say it again, I'm also really surprised to see Code Geass doing so darn well. I don't know how many more DVD's it has to sell of each volume, but its looking like it might start breaking some records soon enough and these DVD's are before the series really started to get going in terms of popularity.
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Old 2007-03-17, 15:41   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
Oh my gosh Haruhi got freaking owned in the ratings, but not as bad as Utawarerumono. Maybe its not as popular as everybody thought it was. At least in terms of the TV Broadcast. Hell it was even beaten out by Fighting Beauty Wulong routinely and the highest rated episode is equivalent to about the lowest rated Code Geass (It's logical popularity successor on the Internets in my mind). Speaking of which, what is with the psycho sales for Code Geass DVD's 1 and 2 which only contain one episode each. If this rate keeps up the series will sell more episodes than any other series this year combined. WTH?!!!!
I'd have to check to make sure but AFAIK DVD volume 1 of Code Geass contained one episode and the 2nd volume contained more. I'm not quite sure if it was 2 or 3 episodes for vol. 2. Also the first volume was pretty cheap (going by Cdjapan's prices ) and worked out to about half the price of volume 2.
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Old 2007-03-22, 00:41   Link #77
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3.9?! Isn't that pretty good for Ayakashi Ayashi? I heard it had been even getting 1.* in terms of ratings before...
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Old 2007-04-02, 16:48   Link #78
Siegel Clyne
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Sunday Morning Japanese TV Anime Ratings 2007.04.01

Sunday Morning Television Animation Audience Ratings in the Kantou Region (Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, Saitama, Chiba, etc.), Japan - April 1, 2007

8.9% GeGeGe no Kitarou (New)

7.8% One Piece


1.9% Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (New)

2.6% Hayate no Gotoku! [Hayate the Combat Butler] (New)


***7.5% (7.1% in Kansai) Yes! Pretty Cure 5***

Last edited by Siegel Clyne; 2007-04-03 at 17:26. Reason: As of the date and the time of this edit, a reliable figure for the Kantou TV audience rating of Yes! Pretty Cure 5 has not come out yet. ***UPDATE*** It came out. Added it.
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Old 2007-04-05, 05:25   Link #79
wao
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Weren't they saying how Gurenn-Lagann's producers were being ridiculous if they were trying to compete with Pretty Cure? Since they're in the same timeslot on different stations (making Pretty Cure Gurenn-Lagann's 裏番組) and obviously Pretty Cure's going to win the eyeballs.

However it seems pretty obvious to me that they didn't really make it to rake in the kids but to grab the otakus - and to make it Imaishi's sandbox of sorts (having said that, I have yet to watch it. Or any of the Spring shows aside from Moribito.)

Reminds me a wee bit of Eureka 7, obviously no kids were bothering to watch it (and hell, if I were a kid I sure as hell wasn't going to get up at 7am to watch an anime unless I was an otaku-in-training or something). It was the otaku who drove the DVD sales and whatnot.
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Old 2007-04-05, 23:09   Link #80
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Death Note Ep. 25, Claymore Ep. 1 TV Ratings 2007.04.03 (2007.04.04)

Television Animation Audience Ratings in the Kantou Region (Tokyo, Yokohama, Kawasaki, Saitama, Chiba, etc.), Japan - Late Night Tuesday, April 3, 2007 (Early Morning Wednesday, April 4, 2007)

3.6% NTV 25:11 [1:11 AM] DEATH NOTE "Chinmoku" [Episode 25: "Silence"]

2.0% NTV 25:41 [1:41 AM] Claymore ....... "Daiken -Claymore-" [Episode 1: "Big Sword -Claymore-"] (New Program)
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