AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-03-22, 00:07   Link #1
Sinaura
Fat Warlord
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
[Manga] 2.5 Years Wasted On Sasuke's Part

Since the previous chapters have revealed some things, I've concluded that Sasuke wasted all that time training under Oro. Undoubtedly the training consisted mostly of Oro teaching Sasuke forbidden, S-level jutsu. However, like Sasuke and Itachi said to Oro, "All your jutsus are useless against these eyes". So, I ask, what Sasuke could have possibly gained training under Oro to prepare him to fight Itachi. If ALL of Oro's jutsus are useless against the Sharingan, what point was there for Sasuke to learn those same jutsus that would be "useless" against Itachi's Sharingan? He would have been better off training under Gai or Jirayi.
Sinaura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 00:20   Link #2
zamme
Wandering Prophet
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to zamme
That's probably not it. We can assume that he has greatly trained his body (Since it's what Orochimaru wants after all), gained a lot of knowledge about the sharingan, learned fighting styles to counter Itachi and probably took drugs to improve himself to the current level.
I cant say that he could've done this with any other teacher, really.
__________________

The one man fanclub!
Dosu did never really die.....
He just took a time out.
Click for my 18 paged Dosu Gaiden manga chapter!
[Fixed link again, again, and again!.. If it's down, please PM me!]
zamme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 00:27   Link #3
gibits
Endless
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Yeah this is a point of contention i have with the plot. If Oro could not beat Itachi to begin with then why bother? The whole "training Sasuke's body" arguement is dumb for the simple reason that Oro could train that body himself if it was not up to par.
gibits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 00:33   Link #4
zamme
Wandering Prophet
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 27
Send a message via MSN to zamme
Why? You're saying a teacher cant teach a student to surpass himself? Sasuke already had the genius (and according to Oro, a greater potential then Itachi) which means that with proper training from one of the strongest characters in the manga, he could reach that potential.
__________________

The one man fanclub!
Dosu did never really die.....
He just took a time out.
Click for my 18 paged Dosu Gaiden manga chapter!
[Fixed link again, again, and again!.. If it's down, please PM me!]
zamme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 00:36   Link #5
Sinaura
Fat Warlord
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamme View Post
That's probably not it. We can assume that he has greatly trained his body (Since it's what Orochimaru wants after all)gained a lot of knowledge about the sharingan, learned fighting styles to counter Itachi and probably took drugs to improve himself to the current level.
I cant say that he could've done this with any other teacher, really.
I doubt Sasuke has learned fighting styles to counter Itachi, considering Oro wasn't himself able to counter the Sharingan and we saw Oro as powerless against Sasuke's sharingan as much as he was with Itachi's sharingan. If anything, Sasuke would've learned much more about the Sharingan with a teacher who actually had it, like Kakashi. Oro's only counter to the sharingan, afterall, was to obtain the sharingan himself.

The drugs seem useless other than to make Sasuke feel like he was becoming stronger to keep him content.

As for the training of the body, no doubt he could have done that without Oro, and even still, I doubt Oro would be superior, in terms of body training, to Gai.

Again, like Sasuke said Oro jutsus, Oro power, was useless against his eyes. So Sasuke obtaining Oro's jutsus and "power" seems just as useless, against Itachi.
Sinaura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 00:50   Link #6
SpiRo
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 28
Like u said, "All your jutsus are useless against these eyes". But becouse Sasuke have same eyes as Itachi, they will fight with usual jutsu, thats why Sasuke need all jutsu he can learn.

I guess Orochi was better then Itachi in taijutsu and ninjutsu but he couldnt compete with Sharingans genjutsu .. thats why Oro needed Sharingan so he can be unbeatable.
SpiRo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 01:24   Link #7
Hentai Guy
REdiculous (see profile)
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
If anything, Sasuke would've learned much more about the Sharingan with a teacher who actually had it, like Kakashi. Oro's only counter to the sharingan, afterall, was to obtain the sharingan himself.
True words, my good man. I always wondered that myself (prettymuch since Kakashi tied Sasuke to the tree and lectured him)...it seems like Kakashi would be the perfect teacher for Sasuke, being not only one of the strongest ninja in the world, but also the only other Sharingan user Sasuke can learn from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
Like u said, "All your jutsus are useless against these eyes". But becouse Sasuke have same eyes as Itachi, they will fight with usual jutsu, thats why Sasuke need all jutsu he can learn.
I doubt that...just because they both have Sharingan doesn't mean that normal jutsus will suddenly work. While one Sharingan wouldn't be able to counter the actual abilities of the other Sharingan (such as Tsukuyomi and the genjutsu at a glance), it would still work fine on standard jutsus requiring seals, taijutsu, normal genjutsu, and the like UNLESS one was able to perform them so quickly that the other could not follow (such as when Itachi uses seals so fast that Kakashi can't see them with his Sharingan or when Naruto moves so fast that Sasuke can't follow his movements)...in which case one would outclass the other and the battle would prettymuch already be decided.
__________________
"The story you're about to hear is true...and by true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies...and in the end isn't that the real truth? The answer is no."
Hentai Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 01:36   Link #8
Rurouni Zeke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamme View Post
Why? You're saying a teacher cant teach a student to surpass himself? Sasuke already had the genius (and according to Oro, a greater potential then Itachi) which means that with proper training from one of the strongest characters in the manga, he could reach that potential.
I think what he gibits was getting at was the fact that Oro shouldn't have been teaching Sasuke to surpass him in the first place. He intended to be Sasuke's body-snatcher, not his sensei. Additionally, from Sasuke's point of view, he couldn't have reasonably assumed that Oro would train him to be stronger than himself, considering he wanted to take over Sasuke's body and it's far more difficult if Sasuke is stronger than him. That's why the question of "Why bother" applies here to both sides. Oro could have taken the body without making Sasuke as strong as he is now (this isn't to say he should have let him rot in a cage, but he could have limited the development a bit). Also, even if Sasuke surpassed Oro, there is no indication that he did so to the extent that he is on par with Itachi, so it does seem like a bit of a waste.

HOWEVER, we won't know whether it IS actually a waste until we see how Sasuke progresses on his own now. If he gets substantially stronger on his own now to the extent that he can reasonably fight Itachi, then training with Orochimaru provided a very necessary power boost that got him close enough to Itachi's level for the fact that Oro was weaker than Itachi to be rendered moot.

Very interesting point, Sinaura.

And sorry if that wasn't so coherent, but I'm sleepy
Rurouni Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 01:45   Link #9
kikko_s
What's in a name....?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: wherever i am
Send a message via AIM to kikko_s
Would've been better off with even Kakashi. At least Kakashi can do MS, and he could've learnt how Kakashi obtained it.
kikko_s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 05:30   Link #10
Hunter
Bubbly and super fun
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits View Post
Yeah this is a point of contention i have with the plot. If Oro could not beat Itachi to begin with then why bother? The whole "training Sasuke's body" arguement is dumb for the simple reason that Oro could train that body himself if it was not up to par.
Which is what he would have done if he wasn't forced to change his body too soon 3 years ago.

No Sasuke's last years weren't wasted -it's kind of funny to see this thread among all the "Sasuke's overpowered" comments though- Oro's training obviously helped Sasuke to reach his potential as an incredible rate and except for the MS he also has shown incredible Sharingan improvement that Kakashi could only dream off.
Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 07:31   Link #11
rman0099
On my nut
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
I don't think it was a waste at all for Sasuke. An elite ninja will know multiple jutsu to help with an array of situations. Also, to use the sharingan to its fullest he should understand the mechanics of different elemenal jutsu if he would ever decide to copy them like Kakashi. It was also to Oro's benefit to train Sasuke for 2.5 yrs so the body would have a decent enough powerlevel when he took over. Oro wouldn't want to set himself back 2+ yrs just because he took over a new body. In those 2.5 yrs Oro probably helped Sasuke learn to develope jutsu so that on his own Sasuke would improve his sharingan, develope variations on his older jutsu, and create new ones. This would give Oro even more new jutsu which we all know he loved.

The only thing he probably missed out on is sharingan training. Kakashi could have trained Sasuke on his sharingan and even taught him how to aquire MS the non Itachi way. I'm pretty sure now that he didn't develope MS from Obito dieing simple because after Naruto came back Kakashi stated that he had developed a new powerful jutsu. After seeing it in the anime I reread some of the early manga to verify. So we could be certain that IF Sasuke would have stayed he probably would have attained MS by now.
__________________
Marge: Homer! There's someone here who can help you...
Homer: Is it Batman?
Marge: No, he's a scientist.
Homer: Batman's a scientist?!
rman0099 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 08:27   Link #12
Hentai Guy
REdiculous (see profile)
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Which is what he would have done if he wasn't forced to change his body too soon 3 years ago.

No Sasuke's last years weren't wasted -it's kind of funny to see this thread among all the "Sasuke's overpowered" comments though- Oro's training obviously helped Sasuke to reach his potential as an incredible rate and except for the MS he also has shown incredible Sharingan improvement that Kakashi could only dream off.
While I agree, I think that Kishi is more responsible for that than Oro...if it wasn't in the plot, Kakashi would have been a much more suitable teacher. But since Sasuke has to be both REdiculously powerful AND study under Oro...well...that's where Kishi comes in and makes it happen with his mighty author powers.

And I was tickled myself when I saw this thread...especially since I myself am amoung the Sasuke is overpowered (or, more specifically, the Sharingan is overpowered) crowd.
__________________
"The story you're about to hear is true...and by true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies...and in the end isn't that the real truth? The answer is no."
Hentai Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 08:40   Link #13
Hunter
Bubbly and super fun
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
Sorry but you don't make much sense, Kishimoto makes everything in the first place so of course he's responsible.
Kakashi might have been a great teacher too but I doubt he would have been greater than Orochimaru save for the MS depending of the way he obtained it.
You don't have to have the same fighting style to train someone.
Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 09:05   Link #14
Hentai Guy
REdiculous (see profile)
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Sorry but you don't make much sense, Kishimoto makes everything in the first place so of course he's responsible.
Kakashi might have been a great teacher too but I doubt he would have been greater than Orochimaru save for the MS depending of the way he obtained it.
You don't have to have the same fighting style to train someone.
Ok, you're not tracking. Yes, Kishimoto is responsible for everything, but what I'm saying is that realistically Kakashi would be the better teacher in the use of Sharingan (which is, far and above, Sasuke's most powerful asset...what with the buttered toast and making god cry). It wasn't so much the fact that Oro was able to give him all that power as it was that his getting power was needed for the plot...basically what I'm saying is it was a plot device. What I'm getting at is without the oversight of an all powerful figure that drives everything and everyone in a single direction regardless of how things would normally work (i.e. an author), Kakashi would have been the better choice.
__________________
"The story you're about to hear is true...and by true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies...and in the end isn't that the real truth? The answer is no."
Hentai Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 09:14   Link #15
Hunter
Bubbly and super fun
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
I understood what you mean but I disagree, like I said you don't have to use the same abilities than your students to teach them.
Hence Jiraiya/Yondaime/Naruto, Asuma/Shika/Ino/Chouji, Gai/Neji/Ten-Ten, Kurenai/Shino/Hinata/Kiba, Sarutobi/Jiraiya/Oro/Tsunade, etc.
Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 10:28   Link #16
SpiRo
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Serbia
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentai Guy View Post
Ok, you're not tracking. Yes, Kishimoto is responsible for everything, but what I'm saying is that realistically Kakashi would be the better teacher in the use of Sharingan (which is, far and above, Sasuke's most powerful asset...what with the buttered toast and making god cry). It wasn't so much the fact that Oro was able to give him all that power as it was that his getting power was needed for the plot...basically what I'm saying is it was a plot device. What I'm getting at is without the oversight of an all powerful figure that drives everything and everyone in a single direction regardless of how things would normally work (i.e. an author), Kakashi would have been the better choice.
i think u shoud sue Kishi becouse he made Sasuke your most hated char stronger and cooler then Naruto or whoever ..

Ok if he erase Sasuke who will be next on your list of overpowered ppl ? Itachi ? AL ? Shikamaru ? Gaara ?
Erase them all till only your favorite char stay ..
SpiRo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 11:38   Link #17
Hentai Guy
REdiculous (see profile)
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
i think u shoud sue Kishi becouse he made Sasuke your most hated char stronger and cooler then Naruto or whoever ..

Ok if he erase Sasuke who will be next on your list of overpowered ppl ? Itachi ? AL ? Shikamaru ? Gaara ?
Erase them all till only your favorite char stay ..
Sasuke isn't my most hated character...I really don't like Ten Ten, the most useless main character ever. Setting that aside, I still feel Sasuke is the worst written character. Hating a person has nothing to do with them being a good character or not. I also dislike Kabuto, but you're supposed to dislike him...he still manages to be an interesting and (so far) well written character (with the single exception of his miraculous survival of the first Rasengan). Sasuke is a badly written and boring character IMHO, and his ability (Sharingan) is much worse. I don't know if Itachi is overpowered, we haven't seen him do much other than show up at Konoha and fight a little and fail to capture Naruto at an inn. And, although very strong, he didn't seem overpowered in the same way Sasuke is...when he uses his power, it actually weakens him. I have no problem with Sasuke becoming stronger, I have problems with cheap plot devices and loopholes in the writing.

Oh, by the way, my favorite character is already dead, and you know what? I'm good with it, he died at the appropriate time and appropriate place in the plot. It was a good way to go.
__________________
"The story you're about to hear is true...and by true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies...and in the end isn't that the real truth? The answer is no."
Hentai Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 11:41   Link #18
Sasuke_Bateman
No
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentai Guy View Post
Oh, by the way, my favorite character is already dead, and you know what? I'm good with it, he died at the appropriate time and appropriate place in the plot. It was a good way to go.
Who was it? for some reason i feel really interested in knowing.
__________________
Sasuke_Bateman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 12:11   Link #19
Sinaura
Fat Warlord
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Sorry but you don't make much sense, Kishimoto makes everything in the first place so of course he's responsible.
Kakashi might have been a great teacher too but I doubt he would have been greater than Orochimaru save for the MS depending of the way he obtained it.
You don't have to have the same fighting style to train someone.
Oro was great for teaching Sasuke how to become an elite ninja yes, but as far as teaching him how to kill Itachi (how to fight another sharingan user, not to mention an MS sharingan user) I believe Oro did nothing for him in that category. The training Oro gave Sasuke allows him to overpower most ninjas yes, but Itachi is not like most ninjas, and that was the whole reason for Sasuke's training with Oro.
Sinaura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-03-22, 12:30   Link #20
Hentai Guy
REdiculous (see profile)
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: I live in a freakin' desert...not even a cool desert with cacti and stuff...just a whole lot o' nada
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Who was it? for some reason i feel really interested in knowing.
Kimimaro, and I'll tell you why. Keeping in mind that he was just a throw-away character, he had just enough story that you could get a little invested without disrupting the plot. He was powerful to a fault, but still had defining limits to that power. And, most importantly, he died when he was supposed to. If he had lived on, he would have been a REdiculous character...seriously, who could contend with him? I also like Zabuza, but didn't really get a feel for his character before he croaked.

Wow...I had a more to write...but my building just started to get torn down by wind. Shit I hate the Middle East...I have to go try and save a bay door, more to follow!

UPDATE: Holy shit...wild, man...just wild...55 knot winds just tore the shit out of the majority of this gods-forsaken base. I'm talking sheet metal flying around, bay doors ripped off their runners, tents shredded, the faces of warehouses torn off...crazy. We were out there using big pallets of water bottles to secure buildings with ripped off walls and shit, it was awesome! The walls were flexing...man...this is better than most of the tornadoes I went through as a kid.
__________________
"The story you're about to hear is true...and by true, I mean false. It's all lies, but they're entertaining lies...and in the end isn't that the real truth? The answer is no."

Last edited by Hentai Guy; 2007-03-22 at 13:53. Reason: Disaster
Hentai Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.