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View Poll Results: Kanon 2006 Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 235 52.57%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 135 30.20%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 37 8.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 24 5.37%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 2.01%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 0.89%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.22%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.45%
Voters: 447. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-03-26, 09:45   Link #101
Skane
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by diane_cheeze View Post
a question:
does it means that the scenes with Ayu were like flashback kinda scenes, whereas the scenes about the Fox and that Sickly girl really did happen? and the scene where they were digging around for Ayu's lost item? those all happened right?

though i really enjoyed this series, its left me kinda confused as to what really happend and what didnt...

agree that if the series was longer, i probably would understand better cos they would have explained more?
Everything is more or less real. The only "fake" scenes are-
  • The flashback of Yuuichi giving Ayu a hairband in Ep22. This never happened in reality. It was just a mental delusion by Yuuichi.
  • Shota-Yuuichi giving Loli-Ayu the hairband in Ep24. This one is a metaphorical scene. It represents Yuuichi giving comatose-Ayu the hairband in real-life and the awakening of comatose-Ayu.
Cheers.
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Old 2007-03-26, 09:50   Link #102
DestinyFate
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I will give this series a 10/10

The story was not too fast and not too slow, details of every characters are well written. Great design of characters, and animation quality is one of the best. The only part I didn't like was how Mai and Saiyuri were neglected on later episodes.
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Old 2007-03-26, 13:47   Link #103
kauldron26
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i love how i am being classified as a troll, simply because i stated one opinion, just one opinion about an anime that i just finished. And how am i following the crowd by saying that i dont like Suzumiya Haruhi. I stated one opinion contrary to yours and that makes me troll?? doesnt that make u a fanboy that's simply shutting me down after one single statement.?? i wasnt intending to stir anger or debate, but only stating my thoughts after i was finished with the show. I dont go around all the Kanon boards saying the show sucks. As a matter of fact it doesnt. I was just saying that the fanboys calling it the greatest thing ever need to calm down a little.

As an intellectual i believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, and to like whatever they want to. Thus, if i thought the show wasnt that special or phenomenal, dont i have the right to say so??

...Sigh...
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Last edited by kauldron26; 2007-03-26 at 14:14.
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Old 2007-03-26, 14:05   Link #104
Vexx
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If you'd pay atttention to the other posts, you'd notice that a number of people have opinions which might be similar to yours... except that they bothered to express them with some supporting data and examples. You simply jumped in with a one line unsupported assertion and now you're whining because people determined its value and responded to it. So perhaps *you're* not a troll ... but the remark was trollish. There really are only a handful of people expressing the hyperbole you're attacking. Most posters seem to like it a lot, agree it has a few flaws, but other aspects make it a candidate for an outstanding adaptation. There's some dispute about the ending being great, good, or disappointing.

Do you think the show was good? Say why. Do you think it had flaws? Explain. Are you automatically discounting the show simply because you've labeled the source material an ero-game (rather than a visual novel)? Then expect some feedback. You certainly have the right to say what you think -- everyone else has the right to respond, agree, judge, or contradict it.

Just to elaborate on the sig remark, you're "following the crowd" because your sig states you don't like Haruhi because of the crowd.... so you're not basing your opinion on Haruhi itself.. but on the crowd.
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Old 2007-03-26, 14:38   Link #105
Mirrinus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauldron26 View Post
As an intellectual i believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, and to like whatever they want to. Thus, if i thought the show wasnt that special or phenomenal, dont i have the right to say so??
As a fellow intellectual, I believe if someone wants to state their opinion, they better be able to back it up with something substantial. All you did was bring up a neutral fact (it was based on an eroge) and then expect it to somehow speak for itself. You offer no commentary, no interpretation, and nothing of actual value to the discussion.

Everyone else in this thread has backed up their statements with actual reasons. You have not. Is it so strange for us to point out this fact? Your opinions are really no different from, say, Kaioshin-sama's, but he actually bothers to write out in detail exactly why he thinks the story isn't so great. You've given us nothing at all. In fact, your statement implies that eroge cannot have good stories, which just reeks of ignorance and elitism. If you're so prideful of your intellect, then by all means, exercise it. Just because a show was based on an eroge does not give you an excuse to forego using your brain.
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Old 2007-03-26, 14:42   Link #106
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauldron26 View Post
I was just saying that the fanboys calling it the greatest thing ever need to calm down a little.
Er...doesn't every one has his own no1 anime ? To them that anime is the greatest thing ever. And i see nothing wrong with some people having Kanon as their no1 anime. Am i wrong on this ?
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Old 2007-03-26, 15:26   Link #107
Mirrinus
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Heh, that's pretty true. I love how faulty this guy's argument is.

1. He states that "I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion, and to like whatever they want to."

2. There are people who have a right to their own opinion of Kanon being the best thing ever.

3. He thinks he has a right to criticize the opinions of these fans.

4. He thinks others shouldn't have the right to criticize his own opinion.

No more hypocrisy, K? People will likely respect you a lot more if you give good reasons and backing for your opinions. We're not asking you to change your opinion; believe whatever you want for all I care. Just don't expect us to stand idly if you blatantly make such statements without any substance backing it. And judging by your sig, it sounds like you care quite a lot what other people think, so you really should consider this.

Edit: What I found really ironic was that the only thing he stated against Kanon was that it was based on an eroge. Yet...apparently that didn't stop kauldron26 from loving Utawarerumono. Double standard much?

Last edited by Mirrinus; 2007-04-05 at 17:53.
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Old 2007-03-26, 17:46   Link #108
Ayu-ayu
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The "value" of Shiori's arc as seen by a non-Shiori fan



Skane, that was really a great read, and thank you for clearing up what Nayuki's arc is supposed to be about...as much as I've looked around, I never found a clear explanation of the significance of her sleeping habit, yet I just KNEW there had to be something more to it.

As another person who was least interested in Shiori's story (although perhaps more interested this time than in the Toei Kanon--and I liked her lots more this time around), I do have to point out a subtle but important role Shiori has that is less obvious the second time around.

Shiori is something of a (good and deliberate) red herring. Kaori's lack of acknowledgement of her existence in turn plunges the viewer into speculating any number of possible supernatural reasons for this, after the prior arcs setting this up, and in turn when her real story demolishes those theories, she helps keep the viewer from assuming that all solutions to each character's mysteries will be supernatural. I think this is a really important role when viewed in this respect, as it keeps the viewer guessing and skeptical. Of course none of that is true if you've already been spoiled the story from the game or the prior series (though I know it was true watching the first series and I suspect might have a similar effect in the game).


Once I get a PSP, I'm definitely going to order the portable Kanon and Air now...I really want to bring it full circle... ^_^;
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Old 2007-03-26, 22:05   Link #109
diane_cheeze
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Everything is more or less real. The only "fake" scenes are-
  • The flashback of Yuuichi giving Ayu a hairband in Ep22. This never happened in reality. It was just a mental delusion by Yuuichi.
  • Shota-Yuuichi giving Loli-Ayu the hairband in Ep24. This one is a metaphorical scene. It represents Yuuichi giving comatose-Ayu the hairband in real-life and the awakening of comatose-Ayu.
Cheers.
thanks! but does that mean those scenes yuichi had with Ayu were like dillusions or something? cos she couldnt have been there since she was in a coma....or was he like talking to an invisible person?
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Old 2007-03-26, 22:39   Link #110
Asianknight82
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Ayu was there, it was a physical embodiment of her consciousness, thats why everyone knows who she is.
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Old 2007-03-26, 23:33   Link #111
Meophist
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So much stuff that I disagree on… oh well.
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Old 2007-03-27, 01:27   Link #112
Vexx
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Aye.. unless we're going to go hyper-surreal, I'd say there was an Ayu projection into real-life. I've always assumed it was comatose Ayu projecting but I can't rule out a Yuuichi generated Ayu. It just seems more poetic to me that Ayu be the source since her injury occurred on "kitsune hill" - source of much magic. Layers of delusion trip over into levels of existentialism that make the Matrix simple (yes, it was simple but many people don't really *think* about existence so it was overload for those).
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Old 2007-03-27, 09:54   Link #113
Meophist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye.. unless we're going to go hyper-surreal, I'd say there was an Ayu projection into real-life. I've always assumed it was comatose Ayu projecting but I can't rule out a Yuuichi generated Ayu. It just seems more poetic to me that Ayu be the source since her injury occurred on "kitsune hill" - source of much magic. Layers of delusion trip over into levels of existentialism that make the Matrix simple (yes, it was simple but many people don't really *think* about existence so it was overload for those).
I never thought that Matrix was any bit complex, nor did I think the philosophy behind was really all that interesting. I only watched it to enjoy the action sequences. Speaking of which, I never did watch the third movie…

In any case, I thought it was the comatose Ayu "projecting" the Ayu throughout the series from when I watched the '02 series, but the last episode of this series made me rethink that.
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Old 2007-03-27, 11:43   Link #114
Ascaloth
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Bleh......two weeks is approaching, and I'm still only halfway done. >_<

I'll get my Final Critique up soon, I promise. And I can promise you it's going to be huge. In fact, it's already spanning 14 Microsoft Word pages....and I still have Shiori and Makoto left, and I've not even touched the script handling yet.

It's going to be a long couple of days......
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Old 2007-03-27, 15:35   Link #115
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
I never thought that Matrix was any bit complex, nor did I think the philosophy behind was really all that interesting. I only watched it to enjoy the action sequences. Speaking of which, I never did watch the third movie…

In any case, I thought it was the comatose Ayu "projecting" the Ayu throughout the series from when I watched the '02 series, but the last episode of this series made me rethink that.
yes, and I accounted for that in my parentheses of that post ... :P
Quote:
(yes, it was simple but many people don't really *think* about existence so it was overload for those).
As startling as it may sound, the Matrix *was* unsettling to many people because they never really think about reality. That was what turned it from an entertaining little cult film to a "mainstream" hit. For those of us who've actually read a bit of philosophy, zen, buddhism, quantum physics --- it was just a nicely executed live-action anime (kind of like "300" is only sort of historical but a great tall tale). I lost count of the places, parties, and times I had to connect the dots and explain the root "science/beliefs" for people who were just overwhelmed.

It'd be quite easy to turn an analysis of Kanon into so many layers of "unreality" that you never have *any* clear idea of what/which bits and clusters you want to call "real".
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Old 2007-03-28, 00:47   Link #116
Icehawk
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I rated a 9/10.

As Ive mentioned I have no prior experience with the storyline or previous anime and as a viewer who came in with a completely blank slate I say again this was a very beautiful series, both in story and in visuals. The first few episodes I remember seemed a little bit on the dull side to me at first, I think it was because everything was just coming off as so "normal" so to speak, but it quickly changed once all of the core cast was introduced and they started getting into things.

Most of whatever other gripes I have with the series are minor asthetic things that arent really worth mentioning though I do have to say that I felt they portrayed Yuuichi as way too far beyond his years in terms of maturity and personality, it would have been much better to see him acting a bit more closer to his age. I mean, in one aspect it was good in that I could identify with the character in certain ways but it always kept coming back to me that "hey wait a minute, this guy is a 17 year old!" Im not saying he should be portrayed as an immature emo whiner or anything like that, but it would have gone along way to show him being atleast a bit less in control of himself. I really liked how they showed him finally break down when he found his gift to Ayu but it seemed too little too late in that regard.

Another point of note would be that, as a rationalist and an atheist, in day to day life I dont put much stock in what are typically referred to as "miracles" or the "divine" however I am also an escapist at heart and I enjoy good fantasy and can understand and appreciate the human desire for things that defy the odds or may seem miraculous. The universe being as vast and complex as it is does produce some very incredible occurances. I generally liked the way the series handled things, I mean its clearly made along the lines of spiritualistic fantasy and I like that, though showing a few quick random scenes of Yuuichi visiting a church towards the end seemed out of place even despite the whole miracles theme the series had gone with and seemed more like the creators were just needlessly tossing a cookie to whatever japanese christians may be watching the show. He would much more likely visit a buddhist or shinto temple. (last I checked census data shows christians make up about only about 1% of the population of Japan) However I could be wrong in that if those scenes were in the original Key game then KyoAni was just following its tradition of being faithfull to the game but I dont know as I never played it, but even if it was, it still seems out of place to me.

But anyways, last thing I wanna do is start a needless debate or rant over religion here, overall this was an excellent series that I would definitly watch again, props to KyoAni for another incredible job done. I eagerly await seeing their rendition of Clannad (Another Key creation that I am a virgin too and will wait to see in anime form)

Last edited by Icehawk; 2007-03-28 at 01:06.
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Old 2007-03-28, 01:53   Link #117
Vexx
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Agreed on the "church" thing in Kanon ... it seemed totally out of place in a culture that is 99% shinto/buddhist (and the few japanese who profess christianity often continue visiting shrines and temples anyway). Now I will say the japanese are all fad-mushy over angels (but in the same way they get agog over anything 'western' and sparkly) but they tend to think of them in a "mini-kami" sort of way.
I wonder if the town reference actually has a church in it and the director just threw it in for Kyon to use as a "quiet place". I dunno... miracles are not a "christian only" concept so that small sequence just seemed odd. I don't recall any reference in 2002 (I think I would have remembered something so odd).
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Old 2007-03-28, 04:13   Link #118
FatPianoBoy
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Wasn't he just visiting the chapel in the hospital? A chapel is quite different from a church.
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Old 2007-03-28, 04:56   Link #119
Lost
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I don't have much to say, but at the end Kanon, I feel that I have to say something.

At first, after episode 23, I thought that marathoning Kanon was a very bad idea (I'd watched from 17 - 23). It was extremely painful, and all those emotions and sad-turns one after another really took their toll. I was feeling pretty numb. But after 24, I thought differently. Certainly, it was hard, but I think that it was best because the build-up of feelings became so intense that when cartharsis, and relief of the pained feelings, came at the end of 24, it was so much more easier to appreciate. Anyway, why am I talking about the benefits of marathoning Kanon?

By the end of Kanon, I was glad that everything was back to the way it should be; where Yuuichi could really be happy. The last tears that I teared were quite happy ones, really. The arc's that most got me - I can't say; because everyone was really so special, now that I think back on it. Still if I had to choose, I'd say Shiori's, only for the fact that she was crying into Yuuichi when she had been healed. I dont know why, but that scene really got me. I wonder why Ayu's didn't make much of an impression - I suppose it's because her's was the one that tied everything up; so I suppose it wouldn't constitute much of an Arc by my definition. Ayu's was very special - I will not forget the scene of Yuuichi crying while crouching over Ayu's hairband. Mai's, Nayuki's and Makoto's were certainly memorable; in descending order.

Thinking back on it now, the plot was awesome, with really great foreshadowing and then returning to it, as with Ayu's hairband, and many more I'm sure I missed. KyoAni certainly did it (the plot), and the rest of this whole series, justice; and even more than that, IMO, so that it hit so much harder. The animation was the best complement of the story.

At the end; I guess all the pain really was worth it.
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Old 2007-03-28, 15:02   Link #120
raikage
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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- Have not seen the 2002 version
- Have not played the game

I'm hesitant to assign a numerical value to a series, but since that seems to be the name of the game I'll give it a 9.


The bad: Like so many of you mentioned, the deus-ex-machina at the end which ensures everybody has a happy ending (maybe even Makoto, as she was apparently resurrected as a fox in the final moments).
Shiori being suddenly cured of her illness that no doctor could even identify, Mai and Sayuri making a quick recovery to be able to attend graduation, and Akiko making an even quicker, full recovery.
Granted, this is a series in which foxes turn into humans and young girls have magic healing powers and girls in comas manage to create astral projections of themselves, but honestly -- everyone getting back to 100% health in (seemingly) an instant broke the last vestiges of Suspension of Disbelief for me.

In the final arc, it seemed to be somewhat rushed. Not sure if that was the mood they were going for (bad things all add up at once) with Shiori leaving, Yuuichi finding an ever-so-brief moment of happiness with Ayu only to see her leave, Akiko getting into an accident, Nayuki shutting him out, realizing that Ayu died (well, that's what he thought at the moment)...it is a lot to take in at one time, but sometimes in life when it rains, it pours. It also helps explain why he gave up and laid in the snow waiting to freeze to death. It's just too much to take in at once!

For those saying Makoto's arc seemed to be the saddest because it came first, it was the saddest because, well, it should have been the saddest.
Of the five girls, she was the only one who willingly sacrificed to be with Yuuichi. Shiori already had the illness when Yuuichi met her, Mai didn't remember him, Ayu is a whole different category.
Makoto gave up the rest of her life, for a single moment in time, for one last chance to be with Yuuichi...

It seems like many of you are decrying the lack of Nayuki&Yuuichi (in a romantic sense) but I'm just fine to see it not have happened at all.
Firstly, it's kind of refreshing to see a lead character have a close friend of the opposite gender be just a friend.
And secondly, and IMHO much more importantly, they're cousins. That's kind of ick to me.

I may add another post as I think of more stuff.
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