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Old 2007-03-27, 15:31   Link #81
Rurouni Zeke
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Ok, gotta go to work in 5 minutes; I'll respond to what I can
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
It`s not hate? jealosy ? Then what .. Look u again, ppl say he is selfish and arrogant ..

As far as i know that arrogance and selfishnes r not bad characteristics ! Also that dont respond on leadership...
(if someone who was better then u in something was arrogant i dont care, he is arrogant becouse he is better, and he can do what ever he wants)

Syndicate didnt point hate becouse someone think different from us .. he wanted to say that all who start rediculous threads and posts, about every Sasukes characteristic, or what he done, or how he look, or his bloodline, everything on what they r jealous .. ar Sasuke haters .. Thats why Sasuke fans always r in deffensive stance. u dont see that Sasuke fans start funny threads about Narutos characteristics becouse we (Sasuke fans) know that Naruto is retard and we dont have anything to talk about retards.. that assume that we dont hate him he is pathetic in my eyes .. (its like when u see invalid u dont look at him and u dont laugh at him)( Naruto = Invalid) And u dont hate that invalid .. but when u see Bill Gates ppl start talking he is idiot etc etc .. or when u see Beckam jealous ppl start talking he is idiot, ugly, bad football player etc etc . !

So do u see there some similar things ?
Beckham = Bad footbal player ( why is he bad player? becouse he is rich, pretty, handsome, have nice wife good merriedge 3 kids ?)
Sasuke = Bad ninja (why is Sasuke bad ninja, bad leader, bad at all ? becouse he is strongest, prettier then naruto and gangs, coolest, have good bloodline ?)
I mainly had a problem with the fact that 2 people (including you a couple pages back) automatically assumed that I hate Sasuke because I mentioned flaws and doubt in his leadership ability. I can't speak for other people; I was speaking for myself in that rant. And no one can reasonably say that Sasuke is a bad ninja, just as no one can reasonably say that Becks is a bad football player. However, the fact that they are good at what they do doesn't mean that they are without flaws. And I would prefer to be able to bring up flaws and doubts without people going 0MG H83R!!!11 And the fact that you personally think that arrogance and selfishness aren't bad characteristics doesn't change the fact that I and others believe that they are flaws.

@Sabaku Kyu: I agree totally. I said (I think multiple times) that nothing will PROVE his leadership ability except for what he actually does as a leader. All I was saying is that I made INFERENCES about his leadership potential based upon his behavior and characteristics, and those inferences cause me to have doubt in his ability as a leader. It's not like I'm going to sit up here and battle about him being a bad leader if he actually proves to be a GOOD leader. I just have doubts right now is all I'm saying.
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Old 2007-03-27, 15:35   Link #82
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
I cant believe .. i told u already and i guess u didnt read manga once more .. Suigetsu said it !! " well u did save me " So that mean that Suigets know that Sasuke saved him and he acknowledged it !
What I think you haven’t read my post, The remarks about been saved is talking abaut been saved from Prison, nothing has been said that what was save was his life that was in an imminent danger. And Suigetsu remark that he could take on Orochimaru showed he just didn’t feel he life was in danger.

Quote:
Excuse me sir .. i didnt know that only ppl who r more then 1 month can writh at this forum ..
It seems you didn’t get my message, I don't have 3 days posting, so I have experience with people using those type of remark in a debate, so the intention of your comment doesn’t work with me.

Quote:
This is absurd .. why would he save me if he wanna kill my mom .. and who wanna be saved from man that wanna kill his mom
Now you are creating buts? Why not? Is there a rule that say that cant happen? I can create some 10 reasons why someone would want to save you just for the sake of doing something like killing your own mother as he doesnt need to tell you why he is saving you.

You said you follow the person that save you goal whatever it is, this should been no exception then.

Quote:
They didnt "Took" child .. they saved them, cared about them and trained them, thats why they all wanted and sacrfised their lives for thatm ..
They Saved them and took them in And they made them grow with them, from a child to a n adult, Suigetsu is already an Adult, and You are blunty Wrong, Neither Haku or Kimmimaru were that to their respective Sempai just because they were saved, it because the attachment they had with then.
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Old 2007-03-27, 15:39   Link #83
SpiRo
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@Rurouni Zeke

I know that why i said ppl .. and that Syndicate didnt just think of u at that moment ..

@Rurik

ffs .. after this i wont answear anything to u, becouse u simply cant understand anything or u just playing dumb .. even i told u 3 times that Sasuke saved Suigets and that was proven when Suigets said "WELL U DID SAVE MY LIFE".. U still CLAIM that Sasuke didnt save him, im sorry that u know better then Suigetsu ..

Then your absurd with killing moms and such rediculous explanation which u can read when i said that Naruto fans would say anything dumb just to question something they dont like..
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Old 2007-03-27, 15:59   Link #84
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A week without fabulous internet and already we have a thread of sasuke fanboys vs everyone else with sense.

Anyways, Sasuke will be a bad leader because his strength with undoubtedly be greater than his teammates, and based on Sasuke's personality right now, I would imagine him going into a situation that he could handle but that his "team" wouldn't be able to because of the lack of power, so thus putting his team in extreme danger. So yeah, Sasuke right now would be a horrible leader. I don't even understand why he would want a team, being the lone avenger that he claims to be, it takes away from his character.
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Old 2007-03-27, 16:12   Link #85
Syndicate
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@ rurik how is taking a scroll from a team go to as in bad choicce when its the whole meaning

@ sabaku kyu if leaving konoha makes you selfish then leaving the army because you wanna train for your own objective would be selfish too. If that indeed was selfish we can call everything selfish

@rurouni sorry but i had that feeling since asianknight started in that way. But for the rest of it pretty much the same as how spir0 sees it
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Old 2007-03-27, 16:15   Link #86
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiRo View Post
@Rurik

ffs .. after this i wont answear anything to u, becouse u simply cant understand anything or u just playing dumb .. even i told u 3 times that Sasuke saved Suigets and that was proven when Suigets said "WELL U DID SAVE MY LIFE".. U still CLAIM that Sasuke didnt save him, im sorry that u know better then Suigetsu ..

Then your absurd with killing moms and such rediculous explanation which u can read when i said that Naruto fans would say anything dumb just to question something they dont like..
So yeah, at the end not necessarily you will follow the one that save you if you don’t agree with the goal of that person. That was the point I was trying to make when I used the mother example. Let me make a better comparison: if Oro revives the Death Hokages, does the dead Hokages have to follow Oros lead? Like Killing Sandaime? You will follow a leader because You share his visions and usually his morals, I you don’t share any of those, you will not follow him.

And Funny the translation doesn’t have “LIFE” in it. In any case, Sasuke saving Suigetsu doesn’t mean Suigetsu will follow him because he feels inspired by Sasuke leadership, but in this case, he will follow him or either out of debt or because he wants to accomplish something, which arent a relationship based on Leadership.

And For your Info, I like Sasuke as much as I like Naruto, so your point of "Naruto Fan" just falls short. But I don’t think I could say the same for you and your likes, using your own word :A Sasuke Fan will use something not said in the Manga to try to defend their beloved character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura
I don't even understand why he would want a team, being the lone avenger that he claims to be, it takes away from his character.
My sentiment exactly about Sasuke forming a team, I guess there is something he needs to be done that he can't do alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndicate View Post
@ rurik how is taking a scroll from a team go to as in bad choicce when its the whole meaning
when it was a Decision taken without thinking the consequence of it? the point of The Test was not only to get a scroll , its was to get an specific scroll and to reach the designated area in a limited amount of time, not to mention the whole team was exhausted and Sasuke still had problems with the newly Acquired CS and that if Im not mistaken the one Kabuto had wasnt the scroll thy were looking for.
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Last edited by Rurik; 2007-03-27 at 16:37.
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Old 2007-03-27, 17:35   Link #87
Rurouni Zeke
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@ SpiRo, sorry I misunderstood you there. I get what you're saying now.

@ Syndicate, no problem; we all make mistakes. Just make sure to respond to people on a case-by-case basis. The fact that Asianknight said some things you don't like doesn't mean other people will too
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Old 2007-03-27, 19:22   Link #88
Syndicate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
when it was a Decision taken without thinking the consequence of it? the point of The Test was not only to get a scroll , its was to get an specific scroll and to reach the designated area in a limited amount of time, not to mention the whole team was exhausted and Sasuke still had problems with the newly Acquired CS and that if Im not mistaken the one Kabuto had wasnt the scroll thy were looking for.
how and what doe sthis have to do with being a bad decision its like you dont allow him to make even the slightest wrong thing cuz he needs to be 1005 whats wrong with taking kauto's scroll.

seriously it was allright to take from those bunshin freaks but from kabuto it was wrong it doenst hold any basis whatsoever man

The whole reason why i dont understand you saying it was a so-called-bad-descision THus he nust be bad leader argument is cuz no one knew which scroll they had and kabuto i think showed the one they needed. Job ninjas is to suprise them. sasuke at least this by wanting to fight kabuto for the scroll he said so himself that he thought it was nice of him to help them but he needed a scroll himself tahst nothing bad. Its not about buddy buddy its about getting results they were running out of time. the fact they were exhausted also means others are and that need to act fast going resting not doing the job was stupid.

Even kabuto thought that sasuke taking his scroll was normal sinc ethat was the freaking TEST to become chuunin. They said it themself this test is to see if your able to do what it takes to become a chuunin fact that they were exhausted and that those others naruto sakura cant carry on is a weakness of them sasuke at least wanted to get the job done aka why he is a team player.

about the decision thingy WHY in gods earth do you think he thought we needed a scroll and take that of kabuto. The whole reason why he wante dto to that and since there were so few left and people all should have one not to mention hey might not find new opponents there one in reach kabuto should i take it or not and fail if we dont find any opponents so no it wasnt a bad decision.

sasuke was the only one in that team that actually had brains sakura was to occupied with sasuke and naruto is too dumb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asianknight82 View Post
lol fans are very hard to deal with, and all this broken english... ugh my head... anyways

For you church goers out there, In the Bible, Paul mentions nine characteristics of a good person. These characteristics apply to everyone of course, but a leader has a great advantage if he carries these characteristics in his 'luggage': love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and selfcontrol. All qualities that Sasuke does not possess. I'm not christian, rather I'm buddhist like my family, but I generally agree with those qualities. If you were to look up qualities of what makes a "good" leader on the internet, I tell you this much none of Sasuke's personality won't show up. Sasuke can be a leader sure, so can a prepubescent of noble birth, but does that make you a GOOD leader? no.
This is about chirstians and it seems you need to re red this whole thread about what we mean with capabilities do you need joy to achieve a goal do you need love to lead a team? do you need goodness (aka oro) no sometimes pure fear can be enough to effectively lead a team.

since when Teams composed of ninja's are christians? There cold blooded murders IMO thats how i view them spy's (people who lie and do everything the bible contradicts yet you come with arguments like the bible. I think you need to understand you view it from a differnet perspective then most of do. I am a christian but im not as stupid to qoute a bible on ninja's who basically disregard anything that written in the holy book

every damn last person in this anime is required to sneak in enemy lines doe sthe bible preach that. they're supposed to take out people does the bible say your allowed to hit people i can go on and on but i think 99% of the people here understand that this is an unvalid arguments.

The reason why I say you should this whole thread again and seriously it has nothing to do with taking it out on you is because i do that alot to see what is initially said. We came to the conclusion that leader come in all kinds of ways for differnet things in this context team leaders is about their abilities to do a job you havent grasped that. If it was an anime about morality then your argument would hold ground.

and yes a child abuser can be a good leader when you look at his capabilities these are 2 differnet things. Team leaders is about leading teams to get something done not about their personal issues beside the team jobs. For example if you for example arein a team and your team leader is good WOW i have a good team leader. This is a fact you concluded then suddenly you read in the freaking news yeah he fucked his own kid doe sthis make him suddenly a bad team leader what nonsense is that?

hit ler was also a good leader. if you looked his abilities to lead the germans DO I THINK HWTA HE DID WAS GOOD HELL NO. but he wouldnt be good if he could conquer 99% of europe hold it against UK USA and russians for over 5 years. The germans viewed him as a hero.

your talking about what you see as good and what to see in his character as good which we dont since we talking about what can sasuke can achieve with his team or how they will operate. your talking about IMO i dont liek sasuke because he this that so he must also be bad leader which is like freaking pointless and has no arguments cuz it based on your opinion concluding he must be bad or something.

@rurouni <3

Last edited by Syndicate; 2007-03-27 at 19:38.
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Old 2007-03-27, 20:30   Link #89
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndicate View Post
how and what doe sthis have to do with being a bad decision its like you dont allow him to make even the slightest wrong thing cuz he needs to be 1005 whats wrong with taking kauto's scroll.

seriously it was allright to take from those bunshin freaks but from kabuto it was wrong it doenst hold any basis whatsoever man.
You should hurry and read those chapters:

A) the idea (because it wasn't a decision itself) of Trying to fight Kabuto, someone at the level of Kakashi, without weighting the Fact that he could had called attention of other Shinobis looking for scroll and on top of that doing it with a team of Exhausted and battered Shinobies specially himself who had serious problem with the CS, was a bad Idea, reason why they didn't go trough it to begin with. if you think this was a good idea, then Naruto Wanting to fight Oro head on for the scroll was also a good idea.

B) The reason why they Fought against those "bushin freaks" as you called them was because those people ambushed team 7 and not the other way around.

Team 7 went close to the perimeter where the facility was because from there they could get a scroll without a direct fight, because it happens that there get a scroll easy by doing an ambush to other teams, a decision that was a wise one given the current team situation, no mayor fighting was suppose to happen. but it happened as noted by kabuto it could, so Even if that choice would had failed, it was well tough, opposite from just wanting to pick a fight to get the scroll.

Quote:
The whole reason why i dont understand you saying it was a so-called-bad-descision THus he nust be bad leader argument is cuz no one knew which scroll they had and kabuto i think showed the one they needed. Job ninjas is to suprise them. sasuke at least this by wanting to fight kabuto for the scroll he said so himself that he thought it was nice of him to help them but he needed a scroll himself tahst nothing bad. Its not about buddy buddy its about getting results they were running out of time. the fact they were exhausted also means others are and that need to act fast going resting not doing the job was stupid.

Even kabuto thought that sasuke taking his scroll was normal sinc ethat was the freaking TEST to become chuunin. They said it themself this test is to see if your able to do what it takes to become a chuunin fact that they were exhausted and that those others naruto sakura cant carry on is a weakness of them sasuke at least wanted to get the job done aka why he is a team player.
You should read were did the Sasuke decision making Came from, intead of saying things, I never said that the decision he took in the chunin test were indication of bad leadership, rather the contrary, this is just one of the 3 decision taken by Sasuke, none of them are worthy to used them as basis to say he is a Good leader or bad leader.

they were just decision that proved Sasuke's Intelligence (the password) or Sasuke's state of Mind (giving the scroll To Oro and Sasuke wanting to fight Kabuto for the scroll.)


Quote:
about the decision thingy WHY in gods earth do you think he thought we needed a scroll and take that of kabuto. The whole reason why he wante dto to that and since there were so few left and people all should have one not to mention hey might not find new opponents there one in reach kabuto should i take it or not and fail if we dont find any opponents so no it wasnt a bad decision.

sasuke was the only one in that team that actually had brains sakura was to occupied with sasuke and naruto is too dumb.
Actually Sasuke just wanted to fight because he was desperate to fail there, thats all, he didn't think anything outside that. read the points I made at the beginning, and just because Sasuke wanted to fight Kabuto there, and naruto didn't, doesn't make Naruto Dumb
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Old 2007-03-27, 20:41   Link #90
Rurik
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People lets try not to make this debate Religious based, or Mods will come in a hurry.
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Old 2007-04-05, 16:56   Link #91
SpiRo
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well this was thread for so long time ago but i just wanna jubilate that i was right about Sasuke .. he dont lead throughout fear .. muahaha

So everyone who said he lead throughout fear r wrong ..

now this thread can die ^^
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Old 2007-04-06, 15:54   Link #92
SpiRo
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Wait it cant die yet .. i wanna jubilate little more .. oh yeah ..
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Old 2007-04-07, 04:18   Link #93
baalthaczaar
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wel...since juugo is the source of the cursed seal mark, would sasuke be looking for him in order to kill him and rid himself of the cursed seal? or to learn more things about it?

just a thought.
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Old 2007-04-07, 04:47   Link #94
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i'm thinking the latter. i think sasuke will try to learn from him.

but i wouldn't be surprised if karin gets killed...
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Old 2007-04-07, 05:16   Link #95
SpiRo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baalthaczaar View Post
wel...since juugo is the source of the cursed seal mark, would sasuke be looking for him in order to kill him and rid himself of the cursed seal? or to learn more things about it?

just a thought.
That is imposible anyway .. it`s like if Shodaime die Yamato wont be able to use his jutsu ..

And why would he want to rid himslef from power ?

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i'm thinking the latter. i think sasuke will try to learn from him.

but i wouldn't be surprised if karin gets killed...
Doubt this too .. but who knows .
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Old 2007-04-07, 11:50   Link #96
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I hope Sasuke opens the door and is mistaken for a girl <3

Kish would have redeemed the entire manga for me in that one move.
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Old 2007-04-07, 13:29   Link #97
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Imagine Juugo says that if a boy opens a door "i will kill him". However when sasuke does, Juugo doesnt attack cause he thought of him as a girl.


Doesnt this look stupid that sasuke wants an mentaly distrub person to join him. Why would he want that? Could it be that his team has counter abilities for the akutsuki member.
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Old 2007-04-07, 14:55   Link #98
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but i wouldn't be surprised if karin gets killed...
I certainly wouldn't put it past Kishimoto, given his abominable track record with female characters not named "Sakura" of late (either they get killed ala Yugito, or all but kicked out of the story entirely ala Hinata...)
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Old 2007-04-07, 14:59   Link #99
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I actually think it would be cool if Karin gets killed and Sasuke goes to Konoha and asks Saskura to come with him...it would put a twist to the story.
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Old 2007-04-07, 15:06   Link #100
Rahan
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Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
I certainly wouldn't put it past Kishimoto, given his abominable track record with female characters not named "Sakura" of late (either they get killed ala Yugito, or all but kicked out of the story entirely ala Hinata...)
The worst humilation was for Ino IMHO, when Shikamaru told her to NOT DO ANYTHING and keep quiet.
Spoiler:

Come on, don't you feel sorry for her ?

To stay on topic, I think all the members of Team Sasuke will die. Sasuke won't eternally hang out with them and they have nowhere to settle in, so Kishi will take the easy route.

They may actually be better (I don't mean stronger) than Sasuke. After all, Karin and Suigetsu were mocking Juugo for coming by himself to Oro (Suigetsu even said he was "retarded"). Obviously, they don't know Sasuke was the one who is "retarded". (Sasuke looked sad at that time, so he may have regrets about his actions though.

Last edited by Rahan; 2007-04-07 at 15:18.
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