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Old 2004-02-02, 08:38   Link #21
Tabiree
FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
Come on, kids deserve good anime too!
Kids deserve nothing but the essentials. Parents go WAY too soft on the little turds.
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Old 2004-02-02, 17:16   Link #22
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I'm not a fan of tokyo mew mew, but I hate to see any series get treated in the manner 4kids treats them. If 4kids gets a series there is no chance of an uneditted subbed version ever being released in the US.
While online petitions doen't work, offline petitions, if large enough, do. I suggest everyone who wants an uneditted version write an actual letter to 4kids to attempt to persade them that there is a market for it. If anyone does write, make sure the letter is not insulting, and merely states that anime series have a broader potential audience in the US then just the target demographic. If they get enough polite letters telling them they could make more money with an uneditted version, they may release it.
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Old 2004-02-02, 17:29   Link #23
Keiichi
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You can write all the letters and emails you want 4kids will never subb anime. Funimation has practically begged them to let them release sub titled ver of their stuff and 4kids said no. They just are'nt interested in real anime fans. Never have been never will be.
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Old 2004-02-02, 19:13   Link #24
Rebochan
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Yea, but if enough fans make a big enough stink, it will show the rest of the industry there's an interest. Hey, we finally got Sailor Mono subtitled, right? Of course, by the time THAT happened the interest in the title was gone...I HATE 4KIDS!
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Old 2004-02-02, 19:42   Link #25
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
Yea, but if enough fans make a big enough stink, it will show the rest of the industry there's an interest. Hey, we finally got Sailor Mono subtitled, right? Of course, by the time THAT happened the interest in the title was gone...I HATE 4KIDS!
The rest of the industry knows there's a market, that's why they release bilingual dvds. It's only 4kids that screws over anime by not making the uneditted version available. Since they're editting the hell out of it anyway, they could just completely change the title for the editted version and sell uneditted dvds under the original title. The problem is 4kids seems to be considering expanding into anime series aimed at older audiences. If no one sends in polite letters explaining there's a market out there that they aren't taking advantage of, they may not include an uneditted japanese version on other series they may be attempting to aquire. If they recieve decent sized mailings on a series like this, they may think twice before releasing another series, targeted at older audiences, without subs.
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Old 2004-02-02, 20:02   Link #26
Rebochan
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My point was that making the stink in the first place can make a difference, as opposed to not doing anything, as several people in the thread were saying. Hell, look at Funimation - they reformed themselves from "The Other Dimension" people into a legitimate anime company that doesn't butcher their titles. Stranger things have happened - I still remember when it was thought to be impossible for Sailormoon S to come over.

I doubt that anyone else can just up and subtitle Tokyo Mew Mew, even if 4Kids is releasing it under a different title. They've still got the English language rights, and that most likely included the subtitled rights so that they wouldn't have to compete with someone else's uncut sub release. I wish the Japanese licensors cared more about what's happening to their titles, but clearly not since this keeps repeating itself.
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Old 2004-02-02, 20:11   Link #27
Tabiree
FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Do I have to keep saying this?

Why do you keep getting angry?

4Kids, so far, have four major properties that people give two shits about. These being

1. Pokemon
2. Yu Gi Oh
3. Shaman King
4. Tokyo/Hollywood Mew-Mew

Now, lets first look at Pokemon and Yugioh

Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh were ported to America, by the very wishes of it's parental Japanese companies, to be advertisements for Paraphenalia and merchandising (clothes, cards, games, stickers, hats, toys etc). None received an accurate Manga translation beforehand (Pokemon still doesn't). None had a "fanbase" until DBZOA/anti groups needed something else to hate when they "realised FUNi didn't care (except that well, they'll still claim they changed them). " Pokemon and YugiOh have also recieved DVD treatment, and did not have any large fansub buzz around them prior to being Localized.

Shaman King and Tokyo Mew Mew however, are not obvious toy commercials. They HAVE received a "proper" Manga translation and release, Shaman King infact has appeared in Shonen Jump. All were fansubbed before licensed and downloaded on a regular basis. Thus forth, they have an ACTUAL FANBASE and not just a bunch of anti-censorship whingers who want someone to blame for everything that's ever gone wrong for them.

If you write a letter, please observe FIVE IMPORTANT POINTS-

1. Please use proper spelling and Grammar. Don't write confoundedly long annoying blocks of words, ala Asaqe.

2. Please do NOT harass them. You will only come off as a rude, smart-ass kid, and won't get listened to.

3. Avoid mentioning what they have done (yu gi oh), what they have (shaman king), or what they might be interested in (naruto SHUT UP), and also their quality of dubbing and releases. Just ASK for an uncut alternative. Do not comment on how big the market is, because you will once again come off as a smart-ass kid who's insulting their intelligence.

4. WRITE A LETTER. I couldn't stress this more, but really, what's gonna seem more like commitment, a 5 second email, or an actually planned, thought out letter?

5. ONLY COMPLAIN IF YOU HAVE INTENTIONS ON BUYING THIS. If you complain, and they do put out a subtitled version, and the sales are paticularly low and lackluster, don't expect them to do the same for the rest of the series that they will aqquire.

Yep
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Old 2004-02-02, 20:19   Link #28
Rebochan
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These are good tips, Tabiree. I've supported subbed releases for ages, and was one of those five or so people who bought/are still buying the CCS and Sailormoon subs.

I'll try to look up a mailing address for 4Kids, unless someone else beats me to it.

Edit:

Found one:

4Kids Entertainment, Inc.
1414 Avenue of the Americas
New York City, NY 10019
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Old 2004-02-02, 20:55   Link #29
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
My point was that making the stink in the first place can make a difference, as opposed to not doing anything, as several people in the thread were saying. Hell, look at Funimation - they reformed themselves from "The Other Dimension" people into a legitimate anime company that doesn't butcher their titles. Stranger things have happened - I still remember when it was thought to be impossible for Sailormoon S to come over.

I doubt that anyone else can just up and subtitle Tokyo Mew Mew, even if 4Kids is releasing it under a different title. They've still got the English language rights, and that most likely included the subtitled rights so that they wouldn't have to compete with someone else's uncut sub release. I wish the Japanese licensors cared more about what's happening to their titles, but clearly not since this keeps repeating itself.
I was supporting your point, and trying to focus it back on 4kids, where it should be and away from the industry as a whole, who for the most part get what fans want from a series. You're right that this wasn't always the case and there are still some exceptions besides 4kids, but they are the only ones that don't even want to attempt to market this stuff to the people who most want to see it. In fact they are probably ensuring failure of the series by pursuing their current strategy. Nothing is stopping 4kids from putting out the hacked up version on tv under a new name, like say Cute Cat Girls in Hollywood and the uneditted Japanese version on dvd under the original title. That way they could exploit both markets. If they made the dvd covers very different, then I doubt people who don't know much about anime, would even connect them together.
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Old 2004-02-02, 21:16   Link #30
asaqe
Augumented Paranoia
 
 
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Well I hope hobono still bring out the subs until 4kids starts making uncut dvds for tokyo mew mew this isnt about licensed or not it is about 4kids not willing to make uncut dvds So keep making sub for it PLEASE.
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Old 2004-02-02, 21:43   Link #31
Tabiree
FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by asaqe
Well I hope hobono still bring out the subs until 4kids starts making uncut dvds for tokyo mew mew this isnt about licensed or not it is about 4kids not willing to make uncut dvds So keep making sub for it PLEASE.
USE SOME PROPER DAMN GRAMMAR, OK?!?!

Christ! If you want to do something about uncut, subbed DVDs, then DO SOMETHING THAT COUNTS, NOT JUST RANT ON MESSAGEBOARDS.
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Old 2004-02-02, 22:19   Link #32
Keiichi
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebochan
My point was that making the stink in the first place can make a difference, as opposed to not doing anything, as several people in the thread were saying. Hell, look at Funimation - they reformed themselves from "The Other Dimension" people into a legitimate anime company that doesn't butcher their titles. Stranger things have happened - I still remember when it was thought to be impossible for Sailormoon S to come over.
Actually it was'nt FUNI's falt. They were being financially backed by Saban at the time and thus Saban had control over everything.
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Old 2004-02-03, 12:54   Link #33
Rebochan
Clubbing
 
 
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Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiichi
Actually it was'nt FUNI's falt. They were being financially backed by Saban at the time and thus Saban had control over everything.
You know, I was curious about the reason behind the changeover. Still, after Fruits Basket and the now uncut Dragonball/Z DVDs, I'm willing to forgive them their past sins - they've repented, and how!
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Old 2004-02-03, 15:22   Link #34
bluemist
i am the mist
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Japan
Why do many of the good shoujo shows get 'mutilated'?

And what the hell is wrong about Tokyo Mew Mew being based in "Tokyo"?? Why the need for a Hollywood version???

Oh well. I heard that TOKYOPOP's rendition of Tokyo Mew Mew manga is quite good. At the very least I won't expect them to change the title to Hollywood Mew Mew anytime soon, unless 'TOKYO'POP became 'HOLLY'POP. Sorry that was lame, but you get the point. I'll read the manga instead.
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Old 2004-02-03, 15:56   Link #35
JOJOS'STAR
Ero~Kairin! ^-^ Yeay!
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ~ Montreal
I see it like that. Liscenced anime are doomed! well not that funny..

Especialy those by 4kids I mean... the name say so, It is for kids once they bought it they modify the Japan culture into American culture so that all the respectable parent out there think their kids are in security wile they dont fucking care about the anime wile looking for porn on the internet.. ^^

I wasent a very big fan of this show also. But like Kamui4356 said liscence should mean commercialised for sales not entirely modified for the violent but anti-sexuality educational american tv for kids (cartoon Network) Kids ! wanna know about sex!?!? whats that?? Since you cant count on the kids network see Discovery Chanel for further explaination.
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Old 2004-02-03, 18:50   Link #36
Tabiree
FUNimation's Gen Fukunaga
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOJOS'STAR
liscence should mean commercialised for sales not entirely modified for the violent but anti-sexuality educational american tv for kids (cartoon Network)
YOu DO realise that these shows are aimed at small childrens, mostly GIRLS in Japan. So it's obvious that even the japanese companies would agree to this.

And you're a dick. 99% of the time when an Anime is licensed for american release, it's being bought over to satisfy an Anime Fanbase, hence it's usually sold uncut and bilingual (or at very least sub only). And Tokyo Mew Mew is being bought over onto FoxBox, not Cartoon Netowrk which is trying it's hardest to push the acceptability of not only censorship, but of overly concerned parents awareness and understanding of what can go into an animated show.

Quote:
ANIME NATION
Isn't that a store? Why would I do that to a store?
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Old 2004-02-03, 19:15   Link #37
method
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemist
Why do many of the good shoujo shows get 'mutilated'?

And what the hell is wrong about Tokyo Mew Mew being based in "Tokyo"?? Why the need for a Hollywood version???

Oh well. I heard that TOKYOPOP's rendition of Tokyo Mew Mew manga is quite good. At the very least I won't expect them to change the title to Hollywood Mew Mew anytime soon, unless 'TOKYO'POP became 'HOLLY'POP. Sorry that was lame, but you get the point. I'll read the manga instead.
Fusigi Yuugi made it out okay. Tokyo is the place of unwashed heathens. America is the only country that exist. So all titles must take place in the US.
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Old 2004-02-03, 19:21   Link #38
babbito2k
annoying white bat
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I am not really a big fan of this specific show, more of mahou shoujo in general. The show's fans are entitled to be upset, and I know also that some people posting here know what happened with Sailor Moon and "Card Captors." What I want to say is that there are two different markets for mahou shoujo; one group is a "cult" comprised of a segment of anime fans and the other is young girls who will potentially want to see broadcasts.

I think that trying to get American girls to watch this kind of show is a waste of time; not many of them read manga and so on (though this may change); the culture is not the same at all. We don't even have all the related toys and stuff to sell to the girls who like the show (not that I care if they buy that stuff, but it is strong cross-marketing support that is not available). Cutting up the shows for broadcast is inevitable and just demonstrates that the market is not there at this time.

The "cult" will get what it wants regardless. Fansub groups sub these shows because they themselves have an interest. They create new interest and satisfy the cravings of the old-timers. Regardless of American broadcast versions and so on, the shows are available in some uncut form up to and including unedited release on home media.

This was true in the case of Sailor Moon; it was always possible to get ahold of unedited fansubbed material (prior to the release of "Uncut") because people felt that it consituted an authentically different product from the show as broadcast.

IMO fansub groups should not be categorically labelled "obsolete" now or in future due to cases like this where even licensing and broadcasting a show does not meet the needs of anime fans.

Last edited by babbito2k; 2004-02-14 at 23:34.
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Old 2004-02-03, 19:45   Link #39
vio5555
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
I am not really a big fan of this specific show, more of mahou shoujo in general. The show's fans are entitled to be upset, and I know also that people posting here are aware of what happened with Sailor Moon and Card Captors. What I want to say is that there are two different markets for mahou shoujo; one group is a "cult" of anime fans and the other is the alleged segment of young girls who will want to see broadcasts.

I think that trying to get American girls to watch this kind of show is a waste of time; not many of them read manga and so on; the culture is not the same at all. We don't even have all the related toys and stuff to sell to the girls who like the show (not that I care if they do, but it is strong cross-marketing support that is not available). Cutting up the shows for broadcast is inevitable and just demonstrates that the market is just not there.

The "cult" will get what it wants regardless. Fansub groups sub these shows because they have an interest. They create new interest and satisfy the cravings of the old-timers. Regardless of American broadcast versions and so on, the shows are available in some uncut form up to and including release on unedited home media.

This was true in the case of Sailor Moon; it was always possible to get ahold of unedited fansubbed material (prior to the release of "Uncut") because people felt that it consituted an authentically different product from the show as broadcast.

IMO fansub groups should not be generically labelled as "obsolete" now or in the future due to cases like these where even licensing and broadcasting a show does not meet the needs of anime fans.
The problem is that we don't have a right to uncut anime, we have to take whatever they sell in the stores and we dont want fansub groups getting sued by the companies; sure fans can be upset, but the right way to show that is to either by the japanese dvds if you don't need subtitles or to just not buy the anime at all; no where do you have the right to receive what you want how you want it, but you can use your dollar votes and just not buy it, which is what I would recommend. Laws dont care if licensed anime doesn't meet the needs of anime fans, you simply have the option of not buying it.
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Old 2004-02-03, 20:02   Link #40
babbito2k
annoying white bat
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by vio5555
The problem...
You quoted my whole post but only addressed a couple of points I brought up.

edit: I was wondering where I had heard this before. Jeez, you could at least address what I wrote instead of recycling old posts.

Last edited by babbito2k; 2004-02-04 at 01:10.
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