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Old 2007-04-03, 06:29   Link #41
mist2123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Well, there is the thing about how tanks are horrible in urban environments. They get stuck and trapped easily in narrow streets, and anti-tank weapons can freely fire from high building balconies to strike the weak roof armour once it is trapped.

The KMs however are ridiculously agile, to the point of being impossible.
But assuming the agility level is achievable, there would be room in the military for Knightmares.
Note that tanks are still used in the Britannian military; Knightmares are never intended to be replacements for tanks.
i wounder how much forced do u need to move such mass
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Old 2007-04-03, 11:58   Link #42
HunterRequiem
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No. Knightmares have replaced tanks as the main battle unit. In reality, KFs would be used as cavalry, as opposed to assault. Their great mobility, with the super charged roller skates and their harkens make it so an army could actually almost completely eliminate infantry in a non-urban setting, or almost eliminate armor in an urban one. Also, KFs would be quite good against IEDs, since it would take a much larger blast to do anything other then blow off the KF's legs. Problem is, just like infantry, KFs don't do so well in battle against heavy emplacements because they're soft targets. I'd be willing to say that a hellfire would probably do a KF in.

And considering that KFs weigh about...what, 8 tons...hm...lets calculate the force, asuming an 8 ton KF is going 60 mph after 3 secconds of acellerating

8 ton = 7257.47792 kg
60 mph = 26.8224 m/s
F=M*A
V=AT+V[0]

26.8224 m/s=(x)(3s)+0
x=8.9408 ms^-2

F=(8.9408ms^-2)(7257.47792 kg)
F~64,887 N

now lets calculate work and power

S = 1/2AT^2+V[0]t+S[0]
S = 1/2(26.8224ms^-2)(3^2)+0*3+0
S = 120.7008m

W = NS
W = (64887N)(120.7008m)
W = 7,831,912 J

Power = W/T
Power = 7,831,912 J/3s
Power = 2,610,637 Watts
Power ~3500 Horsepower

The KF engine would be arround 3500 Horsepower

Jez, why do I do this, but never my Physics homework...
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Old 2007-04-03, 12:09   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRequiem View Post
No. Knightmares have replaced tanks as the main battle unit. In reality, KFs would be used as cavalry, as opposed to assault. Their great mobility, with the super charged roller skates and their harkens make it so an army could actually almost completely eliminate infantry in a non-urban setting, or almost eliminate armor in an urban one. Also, KFs would be quite good against IEDs, since it would take a much larger blast to do anything other then blow off the KF's legs. Problem is, just like infantry, KFs don't do so well in battle against heavy emplacements because they're soft targets. I'd be willing to say that a hellfire would probably do a KF in.

And considering that KFs weigh about...what, 8 tons...hm...lets calculate the force, asuming an 8 ton KF is going 60 mph after 3 secconds of acellerating

8 ton = 7257.47792 kg
60 mph = 26.8224 m/s
F=M*A
V=AT+V[0]

26.8224 m/s=(x)(3s)+0
x=8.9408 ms^-2

F=(8.9408ms^-2)(7257.47792 kg)
F~64,887 N

now lets calculate work and power

S = 1/2AT^2+V[0]t+S[0]
S = 1/2(26.8224ms^-2)(3^2)+0*3+0
S = 120.7008m

W = NS
W = (64887N)(120.7008m)
W = 7,831,912 J

Power = W/T
Power = 7,831,912 J/3s
Power = 2,610,637 Watts
Power ~3500 Horsepower

The KF engine would be arround 3500 Horsepower

Jez, why do I do this, but never my Physics homework...
damn thats alot of Horse also looking at the N thats ALOT OF FORCE!!
LOL I also dont do my homework(why do teacher give them to us??)
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Old 2007-04-03, 12:19   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mist2123 View Post
damn thats alot of Horse also looking at the N thats ALOT OF FORCE!!
LOL I also dont do my homework(why do teacher give them to us??)
3500 HP isn't too much. I think its somewhere arround a fighter engine. Then again, what are you going to do, Strap an F-16 engine to a KF?

And yeah, screw HW. I can't wait for college
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Old 2007-04-03, 13:02   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRequiem
No. Knightmares have replaced tanks as the main battle unit. In reality, KFs would be used as cavalry, as opposed to assault. Their great mobility, with the super charged roller skates and their harkens make it so an army could actually almost completely eliminate infantry in a non-urban setting, or almost eliminate armor in an urban one. Also, KFs would be quite good against IEDs, since it would take a much larger blast to do anything other then blow off the KF's legs. Problem is, just like infantry, KFs don't do so well in battle against heavy emplacements because they're soft targets. I'd be willing to say that a hellfire would probably do a KF in.
The problem is that Knightmares are still relatively big targets, and at 8 tons, their armor wouldn't be able to stop any calibre larger than 10mm (unless their armor is some sort of unobtanium). Realistically, they'd be meat against infantry equipped with RPGs or ATGMs. Even light autocannon should make short work of them.

Quote:
8 ton = 7257.47792 kg
60 mph = 26.8224 m/s
F=M*A
V=AT+V[0]

26.8224 m/s=(x)(3s)+0
x=8.9408 ms^-2

F=(8.9408ms^-2)(7257.47792 kg)
F~64,887 N

now lets calculate work and power

S = 1/2AT^2+V[0]t+S[0]
S = 1/2(8.9408m/s^2)(3^2)+0*3+0
S = 40.2336m

W = NS
W = (64887N)(40.2336m)
W = 2,610,637 J

Power = W/T
Power = 2,610,637 J/3s
Power = 870,212 Watts = 870kW
Power ~1165 Horsepower
HunterRequiem, your distance calculation is a little off. Here, I corrected it for you.

Even older F-16s have engines rated at 65kN (without afterburner), so you'll find that they're a lot more powerful than the ones on the Knightmare Frames.
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Old 2007-04-03, 13:17   Link #46
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well according to the show, even the assault rifle the knightmare carry themselves can damage their armor. which isn't all that huge of a gun, I always wonder why they didn't make a version of it for infantry, even if you can't scale down the size you can still make them into those deployable heavy machine guns.
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Old 2007-04-03, 13:20   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The problem is that Knightmares are still relatively big targets, and at 8 tons, their armor wouldn't be able to stop any calibre larger than 10mm (unless their armor is some sort of unobtanium). Realistically, they'd be meat against infantry equipped with RPGs or ATGMs. Even light autocannon should make short work of them.


HunterRequiem, your distance calculation is a little off. Here, I corrected it for you.

Even older F-16s have engines rated at 65kN (without afterburner), so you'll find that they're a lot more powerful than the ones on the Knightmare Frames.
Heh, thanks. Mistakes do get made (they seem to gravitate towards me, for some reason) And unless I'm wrong, 65kN is just about on the mark for the calculation I made: F~64,887 N

Also, unfortunatly, you're right about the armor. As we actually see in the anime, Knightmares can be destroyed pretty easily with an RPG. The only thing left is the speed and manuverability of the Knightmare. I'd probably prefer to have 10 Apache hellicopters then 10 KFs.
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Old 2007-04-03, 13:22   Link #48
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for me 1 nuke to blow them all
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Old 2007-04-03, 13:42   Link #49
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Nuclear weapons have a lot of drawbacks...things like completely destroying their target area as well as target, and so on, as well as the political problems that come with it. We're talking about tactical measures, not strategic ones.
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Old 2007-04-03, 14:15   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRequiem
Heh, thanks. Mistakes do get made (they seem to gravitate towards me, for some reason) And unless I'm wrong, 65kN is just about on the mark for the calculation I made: F~64,887 N
That's because the figure I quoted was for the first F-16s that entered service back in 1985. In the last twenty years, they've been improved a lot, and the latest Block 60 fighters have a afterburner thrust of 142kN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist2123
for me 1 nuke to blow them all
Smaller nuclear weapons are surprisingly ineffective against hardened armored vehicles like tanks and APCs. A tactical nuclear weapon of about 10 kilotons will only destroy tanks within a few dozen meters of ground zero. Outside of that radius, they may not be in the best of shape afterwards, but they have a good chance of surviving. Infantry, on the other hand will be in big trouble anywhere within a couple of kilometers of the blast. I'm not sure how well Knightmare Frames would hold up, but they should be a lot better protected than infantry.
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Old 2007-04-03, 14:21   Link #51
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I know nina will create a nuke but probably 5-12Kilotons. I doubt he would be able to create 30-80Kilotons
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Old 2007-04-03, 14:27   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
HunterRequiem, your distance calculation is a little off. Here, I corrected it for you.

Quote:
[...]
Power = 870,212 Watts = 870kW
Power ~1165 Horsepower
Even older F-16s have engines rated at 65kN (without afterburner), so you'll find that they're a lot more powerful than the ones on the Knightmare Frames.
Some people were speaking about Full Metal Panic! and the Arm Slave As a point of comparison the second generation AS (Savage - Gas Turbine engine) have a power output of 890 kW (1200 hp) for 12.5 Tons and the third generation AS (M9/Cordal/Shadow - Palladium Reactor ~ Cold Fusion) have a power output of 2500 kW (3300 hp) for more or less 10 tons.
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Old 2007-04-03, 14:47   Link #53
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You have to remember my calculations were based of assumed data, mostly: that the KF was accellerating from 0 to 60 in 3 secconds.
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Old 2007-04-03, 15:44   Link #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRequiem View Post
You have to remember my calculations were based of assumed data, mostly: that the KF was accellerating from 0 to 60 in 3 secconds.
LOL damn 20/second thats way to fast
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Old 2007-04-03, 15:55   Link #55
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Its about what one observes with the KFs in the anime, the Lancelot at least.
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Old 2007-04-03, 18:18   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterRequiem View Post
Also, unfortunatly, you're right about the armor. As we actually see in the anime, Knightmares can be destroyed pretty easily with an RPG. The only thing left is the speed and manuverability of the Knightmare. I'd probably prefer to have 10 Apache hellicopters then 10 KFs.
The lack of armour also explains why Lulu's favourite tactic early in the series, that of collapsing enemy KMs down a pit, works. Even a relatively short distance drop should be enough to damage a KM.
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Old 2007-04-03, 19:19   Link #57
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Very true. We also see how fragile KFs are durring the various fights. one shot to the arm or leg, and its gone. A 8 or 10 foot drop would be enough to destroy a heavyset KF (basically all the main battle KFs, but not the Burai or the Lancelot, since they can handle drops).
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Old 2007-04-03, 19:37   Link #58
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Here is interesting bit of info KF Development from a poster named Zechs Merquise at GameFAQs:

Spoiler:


Doesn't seem to say anything about Gawain, though.
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Old 2007-04-03, 20:12   Link #59
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gawain is probably a special type cuz why would Schneizel use it in the Geass ruins(something like that)
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Old 2007-04-03, 20:18   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The lack of armour also explains why Lulu's favourite tactic early in the series, that of collapsing enemy KMs down a pit, works. Even a relatively short distance drop should be enough to damage a KM.
I don't know much about the real thing, but wouldn't drop damage have more to do with flexibility of the KM structure rather than how strong the armor is?
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