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Old 2007-04-04, 20:16   Link #81
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Woden View Post
Doesn't she use that against Signum in A's? I'm pretty sure it isn't new...
Season 1 : Arc saver, Scythe Slash

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Old 2007-04-04, 20:17   Link #82
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Can someone please post an argument for an "actually evil" character? I've always found them extremely boring, and I'm wondering what is so appealing about them...
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:20   Link #83
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That'll be a nice twist.

…really, we haven't had a "bad person" since the first series. I kinda hope we get somebody who's actually evil in this series.
No, thank you. If I wanted something like that, I could just go for Super Man, instead of Nanoha.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:20   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I just automatically assumed that, given the record of this series, the young, cute and talented little girls are never bad...
Sure.....if she is actually young A really distinct bad guy would make this show kinda boring imo


Quote:
Really? I counted 5...

If Rein can be considered loli...
Hmmm Vita, Caro,Teana(is 16 loli??), Lutecia, Rein,Subaru(i dont really see her as a girl btw ) anymore?
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:22   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Woden View Post
Can someone please post an argument for an "actually evil" character? I've always found them extremely boring, and I'm wondering what is so appealing about them...
The fact that you can hardly find them in this series makes it very appealing by itself.

Also, people want to have character deaths, but don't want to feel bad/sad about it, hence 'really evil' characters are great scapegoats.

Of course, having a 'Trying to take over the world' character is just down right stupid. (Unless done right, eg the two L(s))

But in any case, personally I just want to see some villians without having to go through their dramatic past or having to know why they did what they did...

EDIT:

@raidou
I already edited, it was only 4
(Carol, Vita, Rein and Lutecia)
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:25   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
That'll be a nice twist.

…really, we haven't had a "bad person" since the first series. I kinda hope we get somebody who's actually evil in this series.
Same here. It would be nice if their main opponents throughout the series (like Fate was in season 1 and the Knights were in A's) were messed up bastards that needed to die, and ultimately did. Nanoha needs a higher death count.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:30   Link #87
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I'd rather have villains with dramatic pasts, than "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains. Everyone needs a reason, and "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains tend to have more comedy leaning reasons. Things like "I'm bored" don't really fit. I don't mind crazy-type villains (Precia) but they had best have a reason for being crazy.

Wait, isn't character death just for sake of character death a little pointless?

Oh, and this is only the third series. If all the villains were homicidal maniacs you'd probably be asking for more reasons.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:36   Link #88
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Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
Nanoha needs a higher death count.
Wait, Nanoha has a death count?

In any case, wow, I didn't really expect that kind of response from my statement. I was mainly just refering to the mysterious girl in the opening. Thought it'll be interesting if she turned out to be evil.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:37   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Woden View Post
I'd rather have villains with dramatic pasts, than "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains. Everyone needs a reason, and "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains tend to have more comedy leaning reasons. Things like "I'm bored" don't really interest me.
I have something against going through one's angst past/present for nearly half an episode.

So okay, I don't mind the 'I'm doing this for a reason' part, but for the last two season, it's been the SAME reason.

"I'm doing this for [name of loved one]"

Quote:
Wait, isn't character death just for sake of character death a little pointless?
Who is to say it won't advance the plot.

EDIT:

Quote:
Oh, and this is only the third series. If all the villains were homicidal maniacs you'd probably be asking for more reasons.
Of course.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:37   Link #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Wait, Nanoha has a death count?

In any case, wow, I didn't really expect that kind of response from my statement. I was mainly just refering to the mysterious girl in the opening. Thought it'll be interesting if she turned out to be evil.
Precia , Chrono's father

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I have something against going through one's angst past/present for nearly half an episode.

So okay, I don't mind the 'I'm doing this for a reason' part, but for the last two season, it's been the SAME reason.

"I'm doing this for [name of loved one]"
Well hopefully this time it would be different , if that loli turn out to be some kinda of lost logia's guardian to balance the world or something around that line.Sometimes going through the past of characters would provide a nice twist and plot to the storyline as long it is not taking 1/4 of the series.

Edit:
As long strikers doesn't have Tomino style ending , it is all good...higher death count doesn't hurt
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:41   Link #91
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This isn't Gundam QUITE yet. Killing people to "advance the plot" kind of shows a lack of creativity in my opinion... At least, if it is a character that cannot be sympathized with. That is a little more than a plot device, and somewhat lame one at that. What would be good is a character death that moves the plot along AND moves the audience. Only problem is that that kind of development usually only works on the "Good Guys" team. That would counter out the "evil villains just to have someone you don't care about die", which would defeat the purpose.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:41   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Woden View Post
I'd rather have villains with dramatic pasts, than "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains. Everyone needs a reason, and "RAWR, I AM EVIL" villains tend to have more comedy leaning reasons. Things like "I'm bored" don't really fit. I don't mind crazy-type villains (Precia) but they had best have a reason for being crazy.

Wait, isn't character death just for sake of character death a little pointless?

Oh, and this is only the third series. If all the villains were homicidal maniacs you'd probably be asking for more reasons.
I never said that I wanted a shallow evil villain... just a few with a strong will and some jacked up (but comprehendable) logic (see the not-so-nice Sonozaki sister in Higurashi) that aren't going to give up until they die.

I agree that "RAWR I'M PISSED" and "ME WANT POWAH!" villains generally tend to be pretty boring.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:42   Link #93
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Originally Posted by raidou View Post
Precia , Chrono's father
Alicia, Reinforce.

A kitten (Maybe it survived?), a tree, probably hundreds of fishes, an army of mindless robots, one unlucky defence program.

...perhaps an aged admiral?
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:46   Link #94
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Originally Posted by raidou View Post
Precia , Chrono's father
Sorry, I thought you meant kill count.
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Originally Posted by raidou View Post
Well hopefully this time it would be different , if that loli turn out to be some kinda of lost logia's guardian to balance the world or something around that line
I thought it'll be interesting if that little girl was actually really evil but she doesn't talk too much so it's hard to tell.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:50   Link #95
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I never said that I wanted a shallow evil villain... just a few with a strong will and some jacked up (but comprehendable) logic (see the not-so-nice Sonozaki sister in Higurashi) that aren't going to give up until they die.

I agree that "RAWR I'M PISSED" and "ME WANT POWAH!" villains generally tend to be pretty boring.
To me a villain with a strong will and some kind of screwed up yet understandable logic isn't really evil. He's fighting for a cause, which he probably sees as a good one. That makes his actions more tragic than evil.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:52   Link #96
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To me a villain with a strong will and some kind of screwed up yet understandable logic isn't really evil. He's fighting for a cause, which he probably sees as a good one. That makes his actions more tragic than evil.
So we agree.

Yeah, maybe the wording wasn't the best... I just want some fights to the death. Its about time that Nanoha's awesome fights meet some nice brutal ends for once.

Edit:

Well, maybe we don't agree completely. I don't usually find them tragic.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:54   Link #97
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It would have to be someone besides Nanoha representing the good guys though. Maybe Fate, Vita, or Signum. Nanoha and Hayate just seem too nice to actually kill someone. Well, normally.

Edit: I have a strange way of categorizing actions.
A good deed for a good reason is good.
A good deed for an evil reason is flawed.
A bad deed for a good reason is tragic.
A bad deed for an evil reason is evil.

A tragic character is still understandable, and as such is still someone that could somewhat easily be sympathized with. A truly "evil" character lacks that quality.
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Old 2007-04-04, 20:56   Link #98
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Sorry, I thought you meant kill count.I thought it'll be interesting if that little girl was actually really evil but she doesn't talk too much so it's hard to tell.
Cant really judge from her look and she has not talk at all yet.She could end up being just some additional character who has a past with one of the new guy.Her personality might even be worse than Vita lol (look at CG's Kaguya)

Quote:
perhaps an aged admiral?
is he even dead yet? he seems to age super fast though between A's ending and epilogue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodseeker View Post
So we agree.

Yeah, maybe the wording wasn't the best... I just want some fights to the death. Its about time that Nanoha's awesome fights meet some nice brutal ends for once.

Edit:

Well, maybe we don't agree completely. I don't usually find them tragic.
Chance of this happening is really low though.I don't really see many of them happening in this kind of genre of anime.
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Old 2007-04-04, 21:01   Link #99
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It would have to be someone besides Nanoha representing the good guys though. Maybe Fate, Vita, or Signum. Nanoha and Hayate just seem too nice to actually kill someone. Well, normally.
Subaru?

I agree with Hayate (unless someone kills one of her friends), but I could see Nanoha tuning violent if she got fed up enough with a villain. She showed shades of it towards the end of As.
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Old 2007-04-04, 21:04   Link #100
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Cant really judge from her look and she has not talk at all yet.She could end up being just some additional character who has a past with one of the new guy.Her personality might even be worse than Vita lol (look at CG's Kaguya)
I just said that it'll be interesting; never said that it'll be the case.

I don't really care who kills the cute little innocent evil girl, I want to see the good guys suffer through it.
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