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Old 2007-04-13, 16:31   Link #301
ellifeedn
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Because it's a new school year, will what was once 3 years ago in the story be replaced with 4 years ago?
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Old 2007-04-13, 16:40   Link #302
dnab
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Originally Posted by Kulkillian View Post
From what you've described, my guess is that the mysterious girl is Yoshimura Miyoko.

The big question on my mind is: Is Kyon aware of both storylines?
Kyon could not recognize the mystery girl's voice, so while Miyokichi is a remote possibility (as her voice matures) it's more likely to be someone new. Maybe.

As of vol.9 Kyon is not aware of the plot divergence - at the end(s) of vol.9 we have Nagato sick, i.e. under attack, and the exact situation(s) unrevealed.
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Old 2007-04-15, 03:48   Link #303
ricerocket
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Originally Posted by PastPrime View Post
Perhaps Kyon, when he wished that ESPers, Time Travelers, Aliens, and Sliders really existed, actually sent the powers to a number of differen't girls who were capable of using them. But Haruhi was the one who became unstable and started using them. And Kyon is the key. In order for them to fully utilize the powers he has to be around.

And I really like the new aliens hair. I wonder what it would look like in ponytails.
one impression i'm getting more and more in the novels is that everything is not centered around haruhi, but around kyon

what if haruhi is not actually the god or the creator, but kyon is? i mean even though haruhi is supposedly the one who wished for all the "unusual characters," she doesn't actually get them because she doesn't realize they are around her... whereas kyon also wished since a little kid to be in the unusual situations and he definately gets his wish

would explain why he has no name in the novel
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Old 2007-04-15, 05:02   Link #304
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by ricerocket View Post
would explain why he has no name in the novel
The script of the novel made it clear that Kyon's name does exist. It's just hidden from the reader.

However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.
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Old 2007-04-15, 12:18   Link #305
Sushi-Y
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.
Are you referring to the interview in the official fanbook? That was quite a while ago and Tanigawa-sensei was already at the stage of "deciding on a name". Also, he mentioned that while Kyon's real name will not be a "revealed at the final moment" kind of thing, his real name will be revealed before the end of the novel. It does not appear that it will be critical to the ending though.

Now, due to final exams, I didn't have time to finish vol.9 until now. Too late to join the discussions. Oh well.

(Haruhi + Common Sense) = Sasaki-san.
Oh, and the whole Tengai Ryouiki Suou Kuyou thing just reminds me of Shana.
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Old 2007-04-15, 13:35   Link #306
ricerocket
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The script of the novel made it clear that Kyon's name does exist. It's just hidden from the reader.

However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.
yah i know, but i'm referring to the whole concept of kyon not having a name: maybe he made up the whole thing like a dream, and you know how in dreams you are not sure who you are and stuff
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Old 2007-04-15, 13:57   Link #307
TigerII
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If this all turns out to be a dream, it is gonna suck.
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Old 2007-04-15, 16:56   Link #308
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by ricerocket View Post
yah i know, but i'm referring to the whole concept of kyon not having a name: maybe he made up the whole thing like a dream, and you know how in dreams you are not sure who you are and stuff
The "it's all a dream" scenario will start riots. We can safely leave that method of storytelling for bad fanfics. It's okay for short stories, but it is considered a cop out for a serial novel to end like that.
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Old 2007-04-15, 20:06   Link #309
ricerocket
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lol, i i didn't mean it literally has to be a dream, but i sorta see that kyon's own identity being hazy to signify how important he is in the story, and therefore without his own realization (just as haruhi is without knowledge of her own power) that everything is a creation of kyon's will, and that he is the real creator, and haruhi's powers is just another of his creation much like yuki being an alien etc

remember at the very start he said that he wouldn't expect an alien to just walk up to him and say "hi, how do you do, i'm an alien" and that he doesn't really wanna be the main character of that fantasy world he wishes to be in, but a minor character, like an assistant of the main hero? that is exactly how the haruhi universe is turning out to be, that he is a minor character (supposedly) comparing to haruhi, and the fact that haruhi is who she is creates the excuse for aliens, time travelers, and espers to walk up to him to introduce themselves
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Old 2007-04-15, 20:52   Link #310
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by ricerocket View Post
lol, i i didn't mean it literally has to be a dream, but i sorta see that kyon's own identity being hazy to signify how important he is in the story, and therefore without his own realization (just as haruhi is without knowledge of her own power) that everything is a creation of kyon's will, and that he is the real creator, and haruhi's powers is just another of his creation much like yuki being an alien etc

remember at the very start he said that he wouldn't expect an alien to just walk up to him and say "hi, how do you do, i'm an alien" and that he doesn't really wanna be the main character of that fantasy world he wishes to be in, but a minor character, like an assistant of the main hero? that is exactly how the haruhi universe is turning out to be, that he is a minor character (supposedly) comparing to haruhi, and the fact that haruhi is who she is creates the excuse for aliens, time travelers, and espers to walk up to him to introduce themselves
I understand that Kyonists are growing in their ranks as the series goes on, but I will probably never agree with the principle.
I like Kyon because he is a powerless mortal, who none the less accomplished much with what he can do. Making him a god will just disappoint me, because that means I can no longer relate to Kyon.

I know there are several arguments about how Kyon can be god, but none of them show that he is. Indeed, Tsuruya is as much a god candidate as Kyon, and perhaps even more so since she stated her desire to purely observe.

If Kyon is to be God, then there is no point at all of what he had been through all these books for. It would be no better than an "it's all a dream" ending.
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Old 2007-04-16, 18:10   Link #311
TigerII
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Still sucks for him, even though he said he did not want to go back to a normal society, but to have your life in danger quite a bit, even though he is a normal human that really has no business in the SOS, because Haruhi has a crush on him. And then even worse for him is his obsession over Mikuru will ultimately lead to his depression as she will have to leave one day.

I really feel sorry for the guy.
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Old 2007-04-18, 03:43   Link #312
Kulkillian
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Originally Posted by ricerocket View Post
one impression i'm getting more and more in the novels is that everything is not centered around haruhi, but around kyon
A different way of looking at it is: Suzumiya may be a god, but Kyon is much more important. Suzumiya is the most powerful member of the SOS Brigade, but Kyon has access to the power of the combined members. Nagato takes her orders directly from Kyon, a number of Asahina's missions have been based on Kyon's suggestions, Koizumi has pledged his loyalty to Kyon, and Suzumiya is the only SOS members who will yield to Kyon's better judgement.

It looks like the new novel is making Suzumiya-class gods about as common as time-travellers, espers, and aliens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricerocket View Post
would explain why he has no name in the novel
Or that Tanigawa intended the Suzumiya stories to be told from the point of view of a stereotypically minor character. Authors often don't bother to reveal the names of minor characters in manga, and the characters are usually referred to by last name (like Taniguchi), a nickname (like Kyon), or a title (like Imouto).
Tanigawa hints at this in the first novel by giving a nod to Rozenkranz and Guildenstern are Dead (a retelling of Hamlet from the POV of two minor characters).
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Old 2007-04-18, 21:32   Link #313
dkellis
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I kind of like the telling of the story from the viewpoint of what is technically a minor character. Kyon is unimportant to the story, but certainly important to the narrative, since, well, he's the one dictating it. I have to admit that if Kyon turns out to be some sort of Special-Powered Person (in the conventional sense like the ESPers), I may be a bit disappointed.

Also, being that Kyon is a minor character, and also intellectually incurious, he's probably not likely to care much about the inner workings and mechanics of how everything is connected, unlike Koizumi. So we see the effects of whatever events are happening, but not their causes, at least until Yuki or Koizumi take the time to explain it to Kyon (and thus the reader).
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Old 2007-04-21, 23:16   Link #314
quigonkenny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
I kind of like the telling of the story from the viewpoint of what is technically a minor character. Kyon is unimportant to the story, but certainly important to the narrative, since, well, he's the one dictating it. I have to admit that if Kyon turns out to be some sort of Special-Powered Person (in the conventional sense like the ESPers), I may be a bit disappointed.

Also, being that Kyon is a minor character, and also intellectually incurious, he's probably not likely to care much about the inner workings and mechanics of how everything is connected, unlike Koizumi. So we see the effects of whatever events are happening, but not their causes, at least until Yuki or Koizumi take the time to explain it to Kyon (and thus the reader).
Kyon a minor character? Unimportant to the story? Not only is he important to the story, he is central to the story. And that's not just my inner Kyonist talking (he doesn't do alot of talking). Everything in the story isn't just witnessed by him, it involves him, often prominently.

I know what you were getting at, but that just wasn't the way to say it. His character type is historically relegated to minor characters, or maybe the comic sidekick, but this series turns that on its ear.
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Old 2007-04-24, 21:06   Link #315
Kulkillian
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Kyon a minor character? Unimportant to the story? Not only is he important to the story, he is central to the story.
Kyon is definitely important. He has been the person responsible (the "external factor") for both of Haruhi's big "data flares" (The one "three years ago" and the one at the beginning of the first novel.)

Try to imagine the other SOS Brigade members narrarating the stories. Regardless of which SOS Brigade member's POV, Kyon would still be a major player. In Itsuku and Yuki's versions, Haruhi would be little more than a macguffin. I suspect the most interesting portrayals of Haruhi would be from Mikuru or Haruhi herself.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for The Good Life of Haruhi Suzumiya where Haruhi discovers that everyone in the SOS Brigade (except her) is aware of her true powers, becomes angry, sends the original SOS Brigade members into the cornfield, and starts up a new SOS Brigade with Kimidori, Taniguchi, Kunikida, Tsuruya, and the Computer Club President.
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Old 2007-04-25, 03:04   Link #316
Sean Gaffney
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Originally Posted by Kulkillian View Post
Anyway, I'm still waiting for The Good Life of Haruhi Suzumiya where Haruhi discovers that everyone in the SOS Brigade (except her) is aware of her true powers, becomes angry, sends the original SOS Brigade members into the cornfield, and starts up a new SOS Brigade with Kimidori, Taniguchi, Kunikida, Tsuruya, and the Computer Club President.
I thought The Good Life Of Haruhi Suzumiya was about Haruhi having the SOS-Dan live off of the land and grow their own food? With Yuki as Margot and special guest appearance by Felicity Kendal as Haruhi's mother?

Oh come on, someone must get that joke...
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Old 2007-04-25, 09:16   Link #317
dkellis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I know what you were getting at, but that just wasn't the way to say it. His character type is historically relegated to minor characters, or maybe the comic sidekick, but this series turns that on its ear.
Fair enough. I'm not sure whether to reword it to something more accurate to what I mean; on the one hand, obviously it seems to cause confusion as is. On the other hand, what I actually meant is apparently understood...
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Old 2007-04-26, 04:23   Link #318
Tressflin
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Ah, sorry, I wasn't sure where to post this, but at least this thread has something to do with the books.

I was just wondering what people's suggestions were for watching the anime vs. reading the books first. I'm sure this has been discussed and I was going to read through the thread, but after reading a couple (unwanted) spoilers, I hope people don't mind if I post instead. I know opinions will differ, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

(I was also going to ask about chronological or not, books or anime, but I'll probably end up going with aired/published order since that was how it was released, i.e. intended to be viewed.)

Sorry for the bother and thanks for any replies.
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Old 2007-04-26, 07:06   Link #319
TigerII
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I watched the anime first and it was an ending that left me wanting more. So after coming here to look for the novels(I knew there was a few), I found them and read them. Way better than show. The books don't skip around like the show did but I believe one book's stories are a few months ahead of a previous month's. It says that in the begining, but does not skip around in time in the books.
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Old 2007-04-26, 14:56   Link #320
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I too watched the anime and then proceeded to read the novels. And it was also due the the fact that I couldn't wait for a second season.

I don't know if I can say the anime is not as good as the novels, because KyoAni does a pretty damn good job of adapting what they could in 14 episodes.

As for time skipping, they jump around a bit between volumes initially, like vol. 2 doesn't occur directly after vol. 1, and such. But later volumes have been chronological for the most part.
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