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Old 2007-04-23, 15:30   Link #221
kikko_s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Only one person was able to touch Sasuke during this arc and it was Karin ( Juugo does not count because it was that wing/ frogs leg thing)... he's such a sucker for a beautiful lady.
He's not a sucker for women. He said "get away" or "don't touch me" or something like that. Sasuke's a faygele, no doubt about it. Be that as it may, Sasuke doesn't necessarily need MS to take on Itachi. If Itachi can't get the jutsu to 'lock on' as it were, he'd just be wasting chakra. Speed's the key. Itachi's losing his eyesight. As far as any of us know, Itachi doesn't have any stupid immortality abilities, so a quick kunai stab or something should be sufficient.

That's assuming it's happening in the coming chapters though. Sasuke's final battle with Itachi would have to closely coincide with the final battle with Naruto, which has to be pretty far off. Unless of course Kishi really HAS lost his mind and the end of Naruto is rushed all the way to the point where Tsunade's regeneration jutsu makes her die in the next weeks and Naruto becomes Hokage and the end comes.

What I find interesting is that a couple chapters back Suigetsu says something about Sasuke "bringing peace and security to the world." Or something like that. That's probably how he and Naruto will end up fighting in the end. Naruto will try to keep Konoha free from the deserter-exile-who-comes-back-to-his-home-town-to-take-over.
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Old 2007-04-23, 15:31   Link #222
Power16
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It is true that he was in a weakened state and from what i got from Hunter's post is that even in that weakened state sasuke had a struggle. Orochimaru could have killed sasuke at his paralyze state if not fro wanting his body. Sasuske may have said he had nothing to learn but from that fight i got that even with all of Orochimaru jutsu learned he would of lost to fully armed and weakened Oro and that sasuke is definately not a Sannin level yet ( of course he may still be hidind is own ...MS...).
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Old 2007-04-23, 16:15   Link #223
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman View Post
Only one person was able to touch Sasuke during this arc and it was Karin ( Juugo does not count because it was that wing/ frogs leg thing)... he's such a sucker for a beautiful lady.
Oro did and Juugo does count since Sasuke had to stop the blow using a partial transformation instead of merely stepping aside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Other Ninja View Post
If that was his true form and like you claim, only his host body was weakened as a result of the Third's arm sealing, why then would only his host bodies be affected and not his true form? It makes little sense to think he's only affected by that incident when he's in a human form considering that jutsu the Third performed would've seal his soul (which by all accounts should go beyond whatever corporeal body he retains) and killed him.
What? The 3rd's seal had absolutely nothing to do with that, Oro's body host couldn't handle his soul after ~3 years that's all. His arms were fine or rather as fine as his body ie not that great actually. Oro healed his arms before the timeskip.

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Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Regardless it is doubtful that Orochimaru was able to perform any jutsu, and we know Orochimaru's power lies in his jutsus, so his max capabilities were taken away, and therefore, he was in a weakened state.
Hence the sentence following the one you quoted where I said Oro ables to use jutsu would be more destructive as an opponent.
You can compare (based on barely nothing but still) the degree of lethality of both forms if you like but that wasn't my point : my point was that contrary to what was said, Oro under this form wasn't sick or weakened.
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Old 2007-04-23, 17:19   Link #224
MobiuS
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So a fighter without his main tools doesnt classify as weakened to you in terms of combat?
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Old 2007-04-23, 18:29   Link #225
Sinaura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Hence the sentence following the one you quoted where I said Oro ables to use jutsu would be more destructive as an opponent.
You can compare (based on barely nothing but still) the degree of lethality of both forms if you like but that wasn't my point : my point was that contrary to what was said, Oro under this form wasn't sick or weakened.
Without Orochimaru's max capabilities, his "destructiveness" as you say, then he is weakened, as simple as that. He wasn't sick or suffered from any ailments in snake form of course, which a lot of ppl still believed, but he was still weakened because he was unable to use his jutsus.
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Old 2007-04-23, 22:37   Link #226
tkdtiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Without Orochimaru's max capabilities, his "destructiveness" as you say, then he is weakened, as simple as that. He wasn't sick or suffered from any ailments in snake form of course, which a lot of ppl still believed, but he was still weakened because he was unable to use his jutsus.
That's true as I recall he said that Sasuke was as stronger than him at the same age, but it doesn't appear he though Sasuke was that much of a threat when he was well. Indeed it appears that Sasuke chose to attack Oro. when he was weakest...it's not cheating though since that is what a ninja does...it's oro's fault for not doing more to prevent the outcome...shoot he even stated that he knew this would happen...then again maybe Oro. is still fighting within sasuke...
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Old 2007-04-24, 00:28   Link #227
kheldorin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdtiger View Post
That's true as I recall he said that Sasuke was as stronger than him at the same age, but it doesn't appear he though Sasuke was that much of a threat when he was well. Indeed it appears that Sasuke chose to attack Oro. when he was weakest...it's not cheating though since that is what a ninja does...it's oro's fault for not doing more to prevent the outcome...shoot he even stated that he knew this would happen...then again maybe Oro. is still fighting within sasuke...
He did prepare for it. That's why he had the poisonous gas thing which allowed him to start the body switch ritual. Oro didn't lose because he was weakened. He lost because he didn't anticipate that Sasuke would be able to do the same thing that Itachi did to him AGAIN. That I think was stupidity on Oro's part. He severely underestimated Sasuke.
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Old 2007-04-24, 04:31   Link #228
billbrown
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Of course, several of us doubt Oro's disappearance to begin with... Resisted perhaps, but faded away? Hardly. It's just terrible writing to do away with Oro so easily, but hey, we beat this horse quite a bit a few weeks ago...
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Old 2007-04-24, 04:46   Link #229
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinaura View Post
Without Orochimaru's max capabilities, his "destructiveness" as you say, then he is weakened, as simple as that. He wasn't sick or suffered from any ailments in snake form of course, which a lot of ppl still believed, but he was still weakened because he was unable to use his jutsus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
So a fighter without his main tools doesnt classify as weakened to you in terms of combat?
Again I wasn't making a strength comparison between human from Oro vs. snake form Oro, I was pointing out that Oro was as strong as meant to be in this form.
But ok let's make a comparison : On an open field I think the human form would litterally butcher the snake one, like I said it is way more destructive and for the few we have seen it has way more abilities.
In the other hand in a closed and small field like the room where they fought the difference doesn't seem that huge to me anymore : here there can be no large AOE attack, no huge summon and things like that whereas Oro's poison gas is an almost flawness attack in a small room underground.
More particulary if the purpose of the fight is to beat an opponent without damaging his body then this form has obviously the advantage.

I have seen many time people downplaying this form basically saying that many -if not most- characters would have beaten Oro in this state. Well that's just ridiculous.
Just from its physical prowess in term of speed and strength I doubt anyone under Jounin level would have survived long and no matter the level (afterall Sasuke clearly outpowered Oro) if the opponent isn't immune against the poison he's as good as dead. The only way to avoid this is to kill Orochimaru without wounding him or at least being able to destroy him entirely at once.
A jutsu like the FRS would most than probably work but its sheer size of destruction makes impossible to use it in a small room underground, it would kill the user just as well.
MS jutsu like Amaterasu or Kakashi's black hole might do the trick but Oro in snake form is fairly large, you better not just obliterate a part of him. Powerful Genjutsu could work too.

All in all that's only an handfull of character, the snake form isn't as powerful as the human form but it can be just as deadly in this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kheldorin
Oro didn't lose because he was weakened. He lost because he didn't anticipate that Sasuke would be able to do the same thing that Itachi did to him AGAIN.
Sasuke did the same thing that Itachi but it didn't work this time, Itachi had Oro beat before he could use his ritual.
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Old 2007-04-24, 07:48   Link #230
MobiuS
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That is complete bollocks if you ask me. So Oro only has AoE attacks in human form and has no way of fighting his own student without using a kamikaze mist triggering system? Ummm ....

A Jutsu master has access to DIFFERENT Jutsus, not just the biggest baddest jutsus. SO trying to rationalize the fact that he lost access to his jutsus with the point that "well hes a honkin' huge snake ...he HAS to be just as powerful if not more" is one of the weaker ones Ive ever seen you bring up.

The point is ... he wasn't all he could be in the fight. He was weakened. 2nd time he hasnt had access to jutsus in a major fight too.
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Old 2007-04-24, 08:52   Link #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abazou View Post
I suggest poison then or maybe hanging yourself
....or
I sugest Sasuke dying
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Old 2007-04-24, 09:13   Link #232
Hunter
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Originally Posted by MobiuS View Post
That is complete bollocks if you ask me. So Oro only has AoE attacks in human form and has no way of fighting his own student without using a kamikaze mist triggering system? Ummm ....

A Jutsu master has access to DIFFERENT Jutsus, not just the biggest baddest jutsus. SO trying to rationalize the fact that he lost access to his jutsus with the point that "well hes a honkin' huge snake ...he HAS to be just as powerful if not more" is one of the weaker ones Ive ever seen you bring up.
Probably because you seem to have some difficulty reading and/or understanding what I actually wrote.

Quote:
The point is ... he wasn't all he could be in the fight. He was weakened. 2nd time he hasnt had access to jutsus in a major fight too.
The point is Oro's fighting style under snake form was very effective and worked perfectly well, the reason Oro lost has nothing to do with physical strength but because Sasuke was able to take over Oro's mental world thanks to his Sharingan and will which Oro didn't think was even possible.
No matter which form he used even if he had a perfectly fine body that much wouldn't have changed.
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