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Old 2003-11-07, 16:15   Link #21
Zoya
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Join Date: Jun 2003
I don't prefer one medium over another, but I treasure manga for a variety of reasons. I love the enhanced story and the detailed pictures (it just isn't financially feasible to reproduce that kind of detail on film.) I actually really enjoy reading a manga after watching it's anime because it is like getting the "whole" story.

Many anime based on manga are produced while the series is still running (and often quite early in the run of the manga to drum up sales.) Some anime work closely with the mangaka to ensure it is close to the print version, others veer wildly with the authors characters and plot. A good example of the former is Fruits Basket. It follows the manga pretty closely, but it leaves out TONS. Plus, that show ended without very good closure, based primarily on the first 4 volumes (with a bit from volume 5 and 6 and a real smidgin of info that was later released in volumes 7 and 8.) There are now 13 volumes released, with the ending not yet in sight.

For starter manga, it depends on the style you like, but I recommend http://www.toriyamaworld.com. They scanlate manga from various genre's. Also, check out http://www.manganews.net - they are basically like Animesuki but for manga. However, many of the things that get released are IRC only.

Zoya

Last edited by Zoya; 2003-11-08 at 02:14.
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Old 2003-11-08, 07:32   Link #22
NenMaster
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i like how when a anime is finished, theres more story in the manga
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Old 2003-11-08, 09:08   Link #23
Tboz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juri_miki
I think that it's become a very sad day when peope can no longer use their imagination or read for the simple fact that the images aren't moving. Have we become such a tv addicted culture, or people, that unless it's moving we don't want anything to do with it? Or unless the information is presented to us right in our faces in a manner that we have become accumstomed to from the "boob tube" we can't accept it? Is this our ultimate demise? Have we become that superficial?

True that we live in ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) stricken society, but I guess it's still so hard to accept the consequences of it. There was a time not too long ago when people had patience. What has happened? I think we're doomed as a society.

As for your question...I like both. Many times, the manga can go deeper into something, or explore more story, contain more depth, and even be more beautiful than the anime, because they are just cheaper to make and the person who created, obviously is attached to the work and will in fact put all of their hard work and dedication into the art that they are creating. When it comes to manga, there is no concern of budget except when it comes to printing costs. It's also more than just about plain images, these are images juxtaposed together to create a story. The artist/creators use this story and juxtaposed images is their way of communicating to you, the reader. Whether you listen or not is up to you.
I am with juri_miki on the above...

The manga is usually more detailed, in-depth and longer than animes. Anime such as Berserk and Hajime no Ippo may have ended, but not the manga. Tho some are trying to delay the ending, some are still going strong and more interesting stories are being written as we now speak.

One think I don't like about anime, as mentioned is that the anime series usually do not follow the manga that closely. Even if they do and the mangaka is working closely with the producers, the essence and the true spirit of what the manga is trying to tell can sometimes be captured incorrectly still. Sometimes great work just cannot be reproduced and it may very well happen here.

In addition, since some anime are to be seen on TV, some parts will defintely have to be modified to be rated suitable for the audience. Not even a late night time slot can save it. And I believe that some of these parts can be very detrimental to the essence of the story...

And seriusly some of the quality of animation sucks... Dear Boys is a perfect example. It doesn't do justice to the manga.
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Old 2003-11-08, 14:44   Link #24
Miracleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy
Actually, yes. Yes I am including X-Men in that. As well as Spiderman, Spawn, Superman, and all the other American comis that start with 'S'. I've simply never liked the art styles used in main stream comic books. The lines are too harsh, comedy sucks if it's in there at all, and I find no possible way to even remotely connect with any of the characters.

Besides, I can buy an imported manga for 6 bucks (way less if it's used), and an import DVD (or an American release DVD for that matter) costs me 25-80 dollars (the latter being the import... yeah, seriously), so of course, I'll pick the media that's best suited for my lifestyle. Also, there are 100's of mangas started and ended each year that are never animated for various reasons, and some of them are very much worth reading.
Wow, Sandman starts with an S, and that's an American comic... it's also won the World Fantasy Award for Best Short Story (an honor that was, up until that point, reserved strictly for prose fiction). But alas, these are message boards, and ignorant generalization tends to reign supreme. Rock on, otaku. Rock on.
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Old 2003-11-08, 15:29   Link #25
Nagare Ryouma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miracleman
Wow, Sandman starts with an S, and that's an American comic... it's also won the World Fantasy Award for Best Short Story (an honor that was, up until that point, reserved strictly for prose fiction). But alas, these are message boards, and ignorant generalization tends to reign supreme. Rock on, otaku. Rock on.
What's Sandman??? And is the World Fantasy Award recognized world wide? Never heard of it, so I'm just asking.... excuse me for my ingnorance here....
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Old 2003-11-08, 19:09   Link #26
ElvenPath
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Manga cannot be compared to anime. Both are too different. You read a manga and watch anime. Each one has its strong points: anime gives you a stonger visual aspect while a manga gives a more detailed aspect of the story.
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Old 2003-11-08, 19:27   Link #27
Miracleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagare Ryouma
What's Sandman??? And is the World Fantasy Award recognized world wide? Never heard of it, so I'm just asking.... excuse me for my ingnorance here....
You can find Sandman graphic novels in any major American bookstore. It's hard to describe, if you're interested, do a Google search, as you will probably find a better synopsis than I can give.

And yes, the World Fantasy Award is indeed recognized worldwide.

Past winners include such scribes as Harlan Ellison, Stephen King, Clive Barker, and Michael Moorcock among others.

I love manga... and I also love American comic books. But hearing someone bash American comics as a whole would elicit the SAME response from me as a knock on all manga as a whole i.e. if I can keep ignorance from breeding more ignorance, I will.
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Old 2003-11-08, 19:52   Link #28
AnimeFangirl
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Okay, for the record I read the first Sandman graphic novel - Preludes and Nocturnes - and I didn't like it at all. The fact that a book won an award doesn't mean everyone has to like it.
However, I do like some of the Marvel stuff, though, especially the Marvel UK stuff. Anyone ever read Death's Head II? Bad donkey!
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Old 2003-11-08, 21:14   Link #29
Hast
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Personally I think Sandman is one of the few US comics I like. But there are others, Preacher for instance. However I find that US comics are typically centered more on super hero fixations than Japanese manga. And personally I just prefer the more varied stories and ideas in Japanese manga.

On topic: the question of "why manga?" is quite like asking "why read books?". Pick up a couple of manga books of anime series you've liked and see what they have to offer. (Though watch out for "after the movie books" syndrome. There aren't that many, notable are Evangelion and Spirited Away.)
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Old 2003-11-09, 01:14   Link #30
snoopy
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... Spirited away doesn't have a manga... it was done as a stand-alone movie... and the 'manga' is just screen caps from said movie with text bubbles. I doubt very many people would be stupid enough to like that more than the movie =_=

And I simply said that I hate American comics. I'm not dissing them or anything. It's just that I can't stand them or the wierd subculture that they breed. I never said they were bad, or evil, or the spawn of satan, or anything else like that. The stories are all derivative (of the ones that I've bothered to skim through... trust me, I have no intention of ever doing that again), they claim it's original when they give someone a hood instead of a cape. Comics make me laugh they suck so much.
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Old 2003-11-09, 07:03   Link #31
Nagare Ryouma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miracleman
I love manga... and I also love American comic books. But hearing someone bash American comics as a whole would elicit the SAME response from me as a knock on all manga as a whole i.e. if I can keep ignorance from breeding more ignorance, I will.
Thx for the explanation Miracle-san.... I did check on Sandman, but sorry to say I don't seem to find it amusing at all. Everybody has there taste in things, so if you like them, hey that's cool with me. But you can't deny the fact that American comics 'overall' just suck big time dude. They have built that reputation for quite sometime now. Especially when compared with Japanese comics (manga). The art work is definately not in the Japanese's caliber, the story, plot and everything else just don't fit in. I'm not dissing them here, coz I understand it perfectly well. Over here at my place, we get the same old crap as well. Domestic comics just don't make it up here. We got some domestic comics which actually made it to the big screen (movie, locally), but over all you guy's over in the US should be glad that at least your comics (marvel especially) are known outside of your country; that's something to be proud about. So who gives a damn about the dissing huh? Besides, it's not like we get to hear people going around dissing Japanese manga's everyday. So you can keep ignorance breeding on more ignorance if you want, but the facts is all in front of them, that's that.
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Old 2003-11-09, 09:06   Link #32
bluemist
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I like both anime and manga, and for me they don't have to be compared too much. Manga has certain advantages to anime, and vice versa. So I'm here to discuss what's good about manga.

You can bring manga almost anywhere, and you can read manga almost anywhere. For anime you have to be rich (ooh, portable video players!) to do that. Moreover, manga has less censorship issues than anime, so almost any topic under the sun can be covered (care for some hardcore yuri/yaoi anyone? or plain brutal violence?). They have faster pacing in terms of plot, and a 200+ page manga can leave one exhausted especially when the story in it is jam-packed. But there is always the trusty 'bookmark' to save your progress while on the go. Manga is portable and can be carried in a bag, but be careful to handle it because it 'is only paper'. Manga requires no electricity (heh, no anime when blackout), just proper lignting conditions. It's more healthy on the eyes, and it improves your reading skills.
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Old 2003-11-10, 20:46   Link #33
Asura
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well, pretty much what you guys've said above are my reasons for choosing manga over anime.

It's a lot more practical to come into the bookstore, grab a manga you like, pay for it, walk out, have a seat anywhere you like, and start flipping through the pages. If you got them wet, at least you can still iron it dry, unlike short circuiting some $200 equipment..

Also, with a good manga, sometimes you can feel the presence of the mangaka..That feeling..is what I find missing from anime in general. Ah, sentimental me..
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Old 2003-11-10, 23:10   Link #34
hunterx
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well I think you're stretching it when you say the drawings in manga is better than american comics. Most manga that I've read are in black and white, some of the drawings are good but most of them are nothing spectacular. Some comics like Amazing Spider Man, Authority and Heavy Metal have the drawings in full color and very good. But anyways I don't hate or love manga or anime. If the story is good I'll enjoy it regardless
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Old 2003-11-10, 23:24   Link #35
snoopy
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yeah, but mangas are made by one artist and a handful of assistants who do nothing but fill in black (really, the artist does everything else in most cases), and they come out at a rate of 18 pages per week. Even if they didn't have to work with color, I doubt you'll find very many american artists willing to work in conditions like that. And if you look at the credits you'll see one or two pencil artists, a couple of ink men, and then a company paid to color in the pages on each American comic volume, and they still don't make the same amount or depth in their stories as an average mangaka.
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Old 2003-11-11, 02:46   Link #36
juri_miki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterx
well I think you're stretching it when you say the drawings in manga is better than american comics. Most manga that I've read are in black and white, some of the drawings are good but most of them are nothing spectacular. Some comics like Amazing Spider Man, Authority and Heavy Metal have the drawings in full color and very good. But anyways I don't hate or love manga or anime. If the story is good I'll enjoy it regardless

I have to disagree GREATLY with that comment. I don't know about you, but since you are working with black and white, there is the challenge of having to make that image stronger to stand out more. Many manga artists have suceeded in doing just that. In the case of Marvel, for example, many a time the drawings and inking are very weak and all they have to rely on is color, which also sucks most of the time. One can easily put a well drawn manga, with not only sharp drawing, exceptional inking, and skillfully rendered screentones up against those poorly drawn superhero comic books and see the HUGE difference. I have seen many manga that contain very beautiful and mind blowing art. If you don't agree then try on your own to recreate those images and then you might understand a bit more.

As for American comics sucking in general, I have to say that is a bad generalization. That's just like the people who assume that anime is nothing more than sex and violence. To condemn those people and then to make overgeneralizations ourselves falls on the lines of being hypocritical. American comics are just as varied as anime/manga, it's just up to you to go and find them. If all you know is DC, Marvel, Image, and all of those companies, then I think one needs to go check out companies like Fantagraphics and Diamond Press and all of the other thousands of Independant comic book artists that exist out there.
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Old 2003-11-11, 17:10   Link #37
Spyre
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Seems to be a lot of American comics hate in here. While I agree most are centered around super heros, there are many many good ones that are not. (Though I myself enjoy certain super hero series).

Bone, Akiko, Cerberus would be the ones that I'd recommend off the top of my head.

Bone is an amazing fantasy tale, easily accesible for all ages. It could easily be a disney story with how well-rounded the characters are and the simple, clean, but gorgeous art. Not to mention the slowly growing epic storyline.

Akkiko: Cute stuff

Cerberus would probably be the most known indy comic out there. The 1st volume is about an aardvark barbarian. by volume 2 he becomes tangled up in the politics of a city, and cerberus becomes an amazingly funny political satire. By volume 3-4 it moves on to religion... I wont say much because it would spoil but if you like grand character based storylines and a good healthy dose of comedy you should definately pick up at least volumes 2-4. After that.. youre on your own (many say the series has been in a decline since then )

I love manga, and I currently read a lot more manga than American comics, however when people are picking on comics like this I just need to point out some good ones that could change opinions

As for intelligent super-hero style comics I'll point towards Watchmen, Astro City, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, and Marvels.

Snoopy: the american artists can generally put out 1 page a day, while the manga artists generally put out a lot more. I'd say the main difference is this: American artists spend a lot more time on the backgrounds and details of the panels, not to mention most attempt to make it more realistic. I'm not saying that manga artists are worse, but to say that just because they put out so much more that they are better ignores the differences in the styles and detail levels. Plus manga artists work like 15 hour days dont they?

Last edited by Spyre; 2003-11-11 at 17:20.
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Old 2003-11-12, 02:26   Link #38
snoopy
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According to most interviews I've read, manga artists spend 3 or 4 days a week making the story and getting a rough outline done, then send that to the editors for the magazine they work for, then take the editor's comments and make the final draft over the course of the remaining 3 days. The assistants come for the last few days and fill in the whites and blacks, you know, the mind numbing stuff that anyone with half a braincell could do. During that time, the artist is busy inking his sketches and adding the screentones (or if he has color to do, then he's doing that... whether they use computers is based on preference, and most still use either colored pencils or watercolor). And yeah, it's an incredibly difficult lifestyle.

And if you've seen any of those 'the making of' books for American comics (I used to be really into the marvel art in middle school, so I've got like an entire library of them), you'll see that the artists, the one who draws from scratch on the blank illustration boards, actually just sketches things out. They'll provide the characters' bodies, facial expresions, and clothes minus details like patterns in the fabric, and the backgrounds are left fairly sparce. If there's a skull in there, they'll sketch it, leaving out the cracks and so forth. Then that's sent to a team of one or two 'ink technicians' who basically make it look good. Then that's sent to companies who specialize in digitizing those ink drafts, then cleaning them thoroughly and adding color to them (that's how it is now, at least. They used to do it by hand, of course).

Really comparing American comics to Japanese manga is fruitless, as each side has its advantages and disadvantages (although in my opinion, the only advantage comics have is color... but whatever). As it is all up to personal preference, I prefer to hate American comics as only someone who used to read them truly can (yeah... I read a lot of them, trying to find some I liked... bleh). It was like I was stuck in this room wearing a pig suit for the first 16 years of my life, and only when I was let loose did I realize how terrible my life had been.
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Old 2003-11-12, 05:16   Link #39
LiQuid|J
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I don't mean to continue the semi-OT American comics discussion here, but I've got a question. A problem I've always had with American comics is that nearly every one of them in existence has something to do with some sort of superhero with big bulging muscles. There's not a whole lot of variety in the genres available. I'm wondering if any American comic fans could recommend an American comic that ISN'T about superheros. Maybe a drama or straight comedy series? Do genre like that even exist? I stopped reading comics in 6th grade because I was sick of all the Super-this and Mutant-that's. And that's a big reason I discovered manga, though there may have been advancements in the last 10 years. Anyone?
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Old 2003-11-12, 10:47   Link #40
Spyre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiQuid|J
I don't mean to continue the semi-OT American comics discussion here, but I've got a question. A problem I've always had with American comics is that nearly every one of them in existence has something to do with some sort of superhero with big bulging muscles. There's not a whole lot of variety in the genres available. I'm wondering if any American comic fans could recommend an American comic that ISN'T about superheros. Maybe a drama or straight comedy series? Do genre like that even exist? I stopped reading comics in 6th grade because I was sick of all the Super-this and Mutant-that's. And that's a big reason I discovered manga, though there may have been advancements in the last 10 years. Anyone?
Almost all indy books are not super-hero based. the entire DC Vertigo line is non-super heros. the 3 books I talked about before are not about superheros either.

for drama you could look at Strangers In Paradise. I cant think of any pure comedy series off the top of my head, but if youre looking for some great books with comedy elements check out Cerberus and Bone that I mentioned in my above post.


And I agree that manga has a wider variety of genres available, but that mainly has to do with the audience. Here people have tried to do new intresting stuff but there just isnt the market to support comics like that.

Snoopy: those "making of" books are very inaccurate. The only time when someone else draws backgrounds is when the art is credited as "layouts" and "breakdowns". This used to be more common in the mid/late 90s than it is now. Normally the inker's job (and theres only 1) is to go over the penciler's and essentially "clean" it. I won't argue with your opinion that comics are "terrible" but I do disagree. Its a shame you couldnt find anything you liked. And there are many advantages that comics have over manga... for example you could argue that enduring characters who survive through many different creator's interpretations is amazing.

There are +'s and -'s to both genres, and I'm happy to say I enjoy both.
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