AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-05-02, 18:56   Link #61
baalthaczaar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
i've always thought that kenpachi and ichigo has thier shikai's already. and by that i mean thier zanpakuto's are always in thier shikai. because of thier powerfull reiatsu's they cannot seal thier soul-slayers like other shinigami could. so it would mean that they would only have a bankai or final release.

and by that logic...ken-chan and ichigo cannot really have an initial release since thier soul-slayers are not sealed.

NOTE: ive put in ichigo as he is similar to kenpachi in that right.
baalthaczaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-02, 19:52   Link #62
grss1982
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cebu City, Philippines
What a coincidence!!! :-) I just rewatched the "Ichigo v. Kenpachi" fight last nyt, and I am positive that he will someday within the timeline of Bleach be able to call fourth his Shikai, and maybe later on his Bankai.

Remember, this killer/warrior cried afterwards when he was defeated, blabering something about wanting to get stronger. He even made an attempt (yes, it was somewhat a pathetic attempt) know the name of his soul slayer.

And since this is a shonen anime there's no where else for Kenpachi to go, but up. POWER-UP that is. :-)

Although I must point out that the only way for him to power-up is by:

-- Learning Kidou (Highly Unlikely)

-- Obtaining Shikai and maybe later Bankai (Very Likely)

-- Increasing his freakingly powerful reitsu??? (NOt sure if that's possible)
__________________
ARX-7 Arbalest
grss1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-02, 21:11   Link #63
Lendial
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
perhaps becoming vaizardized?
Lendial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-02, 21:22   Link #64
astrallionheart
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Ichigo had a big zanpakto but it wasn't awakened yet. After he got floored by Kenpachi, Ichigo gained his shikai--first, his reiastu passively increased from somewhat above VC-level to Captain-class. Second, he gained the getsuga tenshou attack. (One funny thing IMO, is that it appears that Ikkaku's bankai is at best no better than Ichigo's shikai--passively increase reaitsu to captain class. Though it's debatable if Ikkaku is even captain-class strength with his bankai).

Some characters get abilities (kido spells, elemental abilities), some get attribute bonuses (reaitsu, speed, etc).

If Kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword, then he hasn't gotten either yet (ability or attribute bonus).
astrallionheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-02, 22:00   Link #65
Slayerx
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by baalthaczaar View Post
i've always thought that kenpachi and ichigo has thier shikai's already. and by that i mean thier zanpakuto's are always in thier shikai. because of thier powerfull reiatsu's they cannot seal thier soul-slayers like other shinigami could. so it would mean that they would only have a bankai or final release.

and by that logic...ken-chan and ichigo cannot really have an initial release since thier soul-slayers are not sealed.

NOTE: ive put in ichigo as he is similar to kenpachi in that right.
Correct on Ichigo, incorrect on Kenpachi...
In order to release their sword and acess it's unsealed power, the fighter needs to know the name of his sword... if they don't know the name that the sword can never be truly released, so currently, Kenpachi fights with his sword in it's sealed form

As for what kinda of release Kenpachi would have... i would imagine just a really big sword or a really big axe... raw power

as for bankai... either something like Ikkaku, just really big blades, or something like Ichigo, but not as small; less speed, but more power
Slayerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-02, 22:06   Link #66
Ansa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Ikkaku's strength is another in question, the feat of bankai makes one strong on a captain level class for the most part.

Honestly I find the idea of Yachiru being ken's sword highly interesting and really possible, if you think about it how exactly did Ken's sword get recovered and how did he get all better in time to take on Tousen and the other guy? Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if in the next arc in the manga that we see him in a bankai or shikai... but then again perhaps Yachiru IS his shikai and he is simply not even aware of it?
Ansa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 02:29   Link #67
astrallionheart
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
the feat of bankai makes one strong on a captain level class for the most part.
Okay, assuming this is true, a guy whose bankai kicks up him to captain class can't hold a candle to a captain that can turn it up a notch and go bankai *himself*.
astrallionheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 03:25   Link #68
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Correct on Ichigo, incorrect on Kenpachi...
In order to release their sword and acess it's unsealed power, the fighter needs to know the name of his sword... if they don't know the name that the sword can never be truly released, so currently, Kenpachi fights with his sword in it's sealed form

As for what kinda of release Kenpachi would have... i would imagine just a really big sword or a really big axe... raw power

as for bankai... either something like Ikkaku, just really big blades, or something like Ichigo, but not as small; less speed, but more power
correct on kenpachi. The SOULS databook states that kenpachi has a shikai, only that he dosent know it / how to communicate with it. His shikai is a perma-release type shikai. Whether you consider the databook canon, however is up to you.

Anyway, IMO zaraki is getting kinda boring with all the espadas and vaizards coming in. Id rather see Lisa releasing anytime over kenpachi releasing.
__________________
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 03:25   Link #69
tacobueno
Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Searcher View Post
Why??

Could there be an cool fate for kenpachi, like kicking ichigo ass, when ichigo becomes evil.
Or becoming the leader of SS

Oh gawd that would be so awesome beyond compare.
tacobueno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 03:28   Link #70
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
whats the chance of zaraki beating ichigo? Ichigo really dosent need to go vaizard to totally own zaraki. If hichigo takes over, even more so.
__________________
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 03:35   Link #71
tacobueno
Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
...then it would back to the whole Zaraki obtaining Shikai -> Bankai deal that people were talkin 'bout, which if my calculations are correct, would tear apart teh fabric of the universe from overloading it with coolness.

blah blah blah kenpachi already has this, blah ichigo has that, not interested. Kenpachi is not in shikai and is the coolest character in the universe. There, an unbiased opinion.
tacobueno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 04:50   Link #72
sakuraame
Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
Honestly I find the idea of Yachiru being ken's sword highly interesting and really possible, if you think about it how exactly did Ken's sword get recovered and how did he get all better in time to take on Tousen and the other guy?
I think the theory of Yachiru being Kenpachi's sword is interesting also, but I don't think is necessary to explain the recovery of Kenpachi's zanpakou. My understanding of zanpaktous is that because they are essentially alive they have the ability to recover and heal. And if Yachiru was indeed the avatar of Kenpachi's zanpakou, wouldn't she have been involved in the fight between the two instead of just watching from above? Communication between a shinigami and their zanpakou is vital for the manifestation of their avatar in the real world and Kenpachi has none with his sword. I don't think you can unknowingly manifest your avatar into the real world either. That seems to defeat the purpose of having an actual relationship with your sword. That and Kenpachi had been using his zanpaktou for a while even before meeting Yachiru.

I have a question though. How did Kenpachi even come by his zanpakou? I think I read somewhere (I hope I'm not just making this up) that at the Shinigami Academy you would practice with a nameless zanpaktou and then perform some sort of ritual to bring out your real zanpaktou when you could (maybe similar to Ichigo?). So, with that said, where did Kenpachi actually get his zanpaktou from? And if that isn't true, I find it hard to believe that he just randomly picked up a sword that happened to contain the entity linked to his soul. Unlike Ichigo, I don't think it came with the shinigami uniform.
__________________
sakuraame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 05:35   Link #73
astrallionheart
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptileex View Post
correct on kenpachi. The SOULS databook states that kenpachi has a shikai, only that he dosent know it / how to communicate with it. His shikai is a perma-release type shikai. Whether you consider the databook canon, however is up to you.
Well, remember, when Urahara said (during training with Ichigo), the difference between knowing the name, and not knowing the name is a massive difference in power.

Ichigo had a perma-released shikai before learning Zangetsu's name. Ichigo's zanpakto's perma-release ability (passive power boost) went from boosting him slightly above Vice Captain (but no match for a captain) to Captain-class reiatsu just from learning the name of his sword. The shikai is still the same--but knowing the name of his sword would probably instantly make Kenpachi strong enough to hold off most of the espada.

Too bad no one ever bothered to train Kenpachi to realize his potential, but there's so much in the way of power struggles in Gotei 13 which probably answers this. Of course we invariably come into this plot hole--if the Gotei 13 is so incompetently directed, why the hell hasn't it collapsed from in-fighting or invasion by enemies? I guess the inevitable answer is most likely the same--Heuco Mundo also is incompetently directed and suffers from crazy power struggles. Which makes you wonder what the heck is the difference between HM and SS after all. Heaven and Hell differs only in the crimes the inhabitants committed in life--its neither good vs evil nor order vs chaos...both sides both exhibit multiple factions. It's like criminals vs non-criminals/guys that were never caught.

Last edited by astrallionheart; 2007-05-03 at 05:46.
astrallionheart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 08:29   Link #74
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
well i get a feeling that its kenpachi who dosent watn to train himself. He probably has never lost a battle before, so his tough guy attitude tells him that he dosent need anything else to win, and that relying on something else to win is a sign of weakness. It probably has nothing to do with whether anyone has trained him / want to train him.
__________________
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 09:14   Link #75
King_chidori
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
kenpachi just needs to hold back his reiatsu and stop having it clash with his soul slayers doesnt he? if he does that and gets some like down time and trys to communicate with his soul slayer wouldnt he be able to make contact wth it after a while? what exactly is the process of communicating with your soul slayer anyway?
King_chidori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 10:53   Link #76
Scep
commands you to...!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
actually i wonder how u initiate the communication. in ichigo's case, the first time... he entered the inner world without knowing how to. In zaraki fight, zangetsu appeared automatically. its like ichigo didt even ask for it o.o

anyway i dont think its as simple as zaraki holding back his reiatsu. In zaraki's case, zaraki hates his zanpakuto, his zanpakuto hates him. Their powers conflict against each other.
__________________
Scep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 11:38   Link #77
sakuraame
Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptileex View Post
actually i wonder how u initiate the communication. in ichigo's case, the first time... he entered the inner world without knowing how to. In zaraki fight, zangetsu appeared automatically. its like ichigo didt even ask for it o.o

anyway i dont think its as simple as zaraki holding back his reiatsu. In zaraki's case, zaraki hates his zanpakuto, his zanpakuto hates him. Their powers conflict against each other.
I would think that communication with one's zanpaktou would have to begin with the actual desire to know the zanpaktou. And since you point out that kenpachi doesn't really care for his zanpakou, i don't really see that process even beginning. Like you said, I don't think that kenpachi holding back his reiatsu would do him any good. The primary problem is that he can't hear his zanpaktou and thus can't work together with it, resulting in the clashing of their reiatsu.

I also think that Ichigo is more of the exception than a rule. Most of the times that he saw Zangetsu, the meeting was either forced by some invention of Urahara's or Ichigo was dying and Zangetsu probably didn't really want to die so early in his career...
__________________
sakuraame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 13:50   Link #78
King_chidori
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
well idont really think kenpachi hates his zanpakto i think he just cant hear it or cant make communication. there reiatsu clashes cause zaraki fight on his own without combing his strength with his zanpakto so it naturally clashes..but his zanpakto probly hates him for that and at one point zaraki did attempt to make contact with his zanpaktou and failed and he was sincerely trying to make contact ...*poor kenpachi*
King_chidori is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 20:30   Link #79
Zu Ra
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
I have to go with sceptileex here I second the point he made. Zaraki didn’t have the need to get stronger. Zaraki was already strong and not having any communication or fighting with your Zanpakuto was never required till he met Ichigo. Other than his resolve Ichigo won as he relied on his Zanpakuto and borrowed Zangetsu power.

Why did Ichi win because Zaraki's zanapkuto broke till then Zaraki did not have the need to get stronger .
__________________
Zu Ra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-05-03, 21:23   Link #80
MC Zandogg
The Zandogg!?!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
ichi drawed with kenpachi cuz he borrowed zangetsu's power....plan n simple....
__________________
"Mortals are short-lived, ignorant, and feeble by contrast with the Daedra. But you mortals are also potent engines of change and innovation, of desperate and reckless improvisation and industry. Thus do we so prize the fruits of your mundane and arcane engineering. Thus do we bargain and plunder and steal to gain these treasures. We have lived too long, and grow dull and complacent. You live too short, and so are wonderfully sharp and inventive. Does that make sense?"
- Imago Storm
MC Zandogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.