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Old 2007-05-07, 06:06   Link #61
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
I've seen it as unison device > intelligent device > storage device > no device but manifesting a diagram > pure willpower.
I agree with that, but I'd add a clause that "This is true when the strength of the mage's Linker Core is constant."
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Old 2007-05-07, 06:06   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
I always kind of assumed that when she did that training at the start of A's RH wasn't doing anything for her.
Mmmm... I'd agree. And she seems to cast a basic barrier against Vita's homing bullet and hammer attack on her own too..

Though, that is six months later, and she has presumably been practicing.
By this point the math she needs for divine shooter (and any other spell she can manage device-less) could be within her grasp..

We don't know the limit of her intellect, but (1) she is an anime heroine, (2) she is frequently referred to a being academically smart and is a natural at magic (3) all the kids in Nanoha have near adult mental development anyway - if she is practicing the necessary math with Raging Heart everyday, within 6 months she might have graped it - perhaps intuitively rather than formally. It's difficult to say what these mages have to conceptualise to cast their spells..

I imagine telepathic communication and virtual visualisation tools (as per the manga) would make for good teaching aids, too.


@Keroko: I'm not sure about your tank analogy.
A device is an aid to spell casting, while a tank is everything to a tank crew.

After all, even without her 'tank', Nanoha can still cast spells.

And Yuuno has no device, but is far from harmless.

I think Nightengale's calculator analogy is more apt.. she is used to having a lot of the nitty gritty of spell casting off-loaded onto her I.D.

(In the same way that having an address book in my mobile phone has made my memory for phone numbers sloppy - I used to remember them all)

But as people have pointed out, she practices spell casting device-less sometimes, this might be to make sure she does not let those skills deteriorate (which would be what I called 'going soft' from over-reliance on her device).
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Old 2007-05-07, 06:08   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Erm...whut?

What's the difference? Yuuno and Lindy both fall under those categories, anyway.
I think Kikaifan is saying that Yuuno does not use magic circles (I thought he did) and that Lindy does..
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Old 2007-05-07, 07:38   Link #64
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Originally Posted by BatAttack View Post
I think Kikaifan is saying that Yuuno does not use magic circles (I thought he did) and that Lindy does..
*tilts head* I can't remember a single time where Yuuno was casting spells without a circle either.
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Old 2007-05-07, 07:41   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*tilts head* I can't remember a single time where Yuuno was casting spells without a circle either.
His transformation occured without a sigil.
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Old 2007-05-07, 08:17   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
His transformation occured without a sigil.
It did? Could've sworn there was a circle then as well. Gotta re-check that when I get back.
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Old 2007-05-07, 08:33   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
His transformation occured without a sigil.
Transformation to ferret? Or back again?

When Arf transformed to wolf form and back to human form, she did not use a circle either (ep 5, season1).

Apparently for multi-formed creatures (like Yuuno and Arf) a circle is not necessary. This probably only applies to their 'true' forms. It seems Arf can change her 'true' form with time (like her chibi forms), but I'm guessing she only has a couple of 'pre-set slots', as it were..

I'm guessing that they would still require a circle for disguise magic.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:06   Link #68
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Hrmm… In terms of magic and tech of Nanoha, there's one thing that stood out for me:
Why are the mages unaffected by their own attack magic?
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:15   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Hrmm… In terms of magic and tech of Nanoha, there's one thing that stood out for me:
Why are the mages unaffected by their own attack magic?
Hmm, Really care to point me to an example of this? I never really noticed it....
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:16   Link #70
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They hardly remain unafected. Nanoha already nearly blew herself up when trying to improve her Starlight Breaker.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:25   Link #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
They hardly remain unafected. Nanoha already nearly blew herself up when trying to improve her Starlight Breaker.
Well, that's true. I don't remember when the first time a character was unaffected by their own spell, but there's YnS's attacks. Specifically Starlight Breaker.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:30   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Hrmm… In terms of magic and tech of Nanoha, there's one thing that stood out for me:
Why are the mages unaffected by their own attack magic?
Nanoha almost blew herself up testing out SB+, and it was only thanks to Yuuno that she was in one piece.

I still remember her reply to "are you alive?" - "S-somehow..." It was absolutely golden. Hmm... Ok maybe more like golden brown.

Besides it'll be pretty haxx, if not overtrivializing, if they turned team damage off.

Fate: (caught in swordlock) Dam he's strong...
Nanoha: STARLIGHT BREAKER+
Enemy: What?! She's cra-- (swallowed up)

The blast simmers for a while, then out of a puff in the plume comes Fate

Fate: NANOHA! YOU RUINED MY HAIR!!!
Nanoha: Ah-hahaha... Gome, gome!

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Old 2007-05-07, 09:31   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Well, that's true. I don't remember when the first time a character was unaffected by their own spell, but there's YnS's attacks. Specifically Starlight Breaker.
Yami no Sho was completely unafected by the starlight breaker she shot, as for Nanoha and fate, they were hiding behind cardridge-powered barriers.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:32   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Well, that's true. I don't remember when the first time a character was unaffected by their own spell, but there's YnS's attacks. Specifically Starlight Breaker.
I would not call that uneffected... Nanoha had too burn quite a few cartridges to keep that wild area protection up, also Fate also used a barrier type spell. and a third layer defenser plus is added to Suzuka and Alisa. So I think they are taking that attack very seriously.

If your talking about YnS, isn't she outside of the blast radius since that SLB was fired at a ~60degree angle
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:40   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
If your talking about YnS, isn't she outside of the blast radius since that SLB was fired at a ~60degree angle
Was it? Did it just expand from where she fired it? Engulfing basically everything?
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:42   Link #76
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Was it? Did it just expand from where she fired it? Engulfing basically everything?
Everything bellow her, yes. It only started expanding after it hit the ground.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:47   Link #77
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I must be remembering things wrong, I haven't watched A's in a while.

How about that black spherical attack?
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:57   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
I must be remembering things wrong, I haven't watched A's in a while.

How about that black spherical attack?
Perhaps the places she is at is like eye of a cyclone. If we can a spherical field around YnS as the center of that attack then it should not effect her then. Or perhaps in the "coding" of her code she add an exception statement of sorts.

There are many ways to expain why an attack seems not to effect their user.
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Old 2007-05-07, 09:57   Link #79
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Black sphere thing? You mean after Reinforce seperated from the defensive program? Cause that wasn't exactly an attack.
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:08   Link #80
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I think he's referring to "Diabolic Emission".

*is quite overwhelmed at the moment by the sheer size of this thread, has trouble keeping up*
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