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Old 2007-05-07, 10:17   Link #81
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I think he's referring to "Diabolic Emission".

*is quite overwhelmed at the moment by the sheer size of this thread, has trouble keeping up*
Yeah, this is no doubt the most mentally challenging thread here. Those without science degrees will have some sort of trouble making sense of things. Even I have trouble making sense of myself sometimes.
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:23   Link #82
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I think he's referring to "Diabolic Emission".
"mumble mumble" *research research* "grumble mumble" *google google* "grumble rar!" *click click*

Darn it, Wiki has hardly anything on Yami no Sho's skills. Hell, there's hardly anything on her skills on the net. I'll have to wait and get home before I can comment on this accurately.
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:37   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
Yeah, this is no doubt the most mentally challenging thread here. Those without science degrees will have some sort of trouble making sense of things. Even I have trouble making sense of myself sometimes.
Even those who have done science in university will find some of this challenging...

On a sidenote since I remembered the Nanoha novel did say something about how colour relates to each mage, I'll post what it does say, I can't belive I completly forgot about this, but at least it did prove my freqency theory.

Quote:
魔力の光の色。個人の魔力波長によって色が変化するが、魔法性質には特に関係は無い
"The color of magical light changes due to the magical wavelength of each person, It is completly unrelated to specialisation or characteristic of the magic used"

The above is what I could get from it, feel free to retranslate it with a better translation, since I kinda know its petty bad.
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:40   Link #84
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I didn't think the science in this thread was that complicated…
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:44   Link #85
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
I didn't think the science in this thread was that complicatedů
Go read that entropy thing in general discussions. It give me a headache..

Since I used simple math for all my theories, I do belive most people can follow it... hopefully...
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Old 2007-05-07, 10:49   Link #86
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Well, it's not that bad, but I can see why it could give some people headaches. Of course, perhaps the reason I'm fine with it is because I don't agree with it.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:00   Link #87
Kikaifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*tilts head* I can't remember a single time where Yuuno was casting spells without a circle either.
When he's healing Nanoha it's just a glowing ball he's got in his hands. Similarly when he's running away from Vita and preparing their 'port-away in the second A's ep., it's just a glowing ball of energy he's got in his hand. He uses a diagram to defend against Vita but he's too busy running away to be standing on a circle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
Perhaps the places she is at is like eye of a cyclone. If we can a spherical field around YnS as the center of that attack then it should not effect her then. Or perhaps in the "coding" of her code she add an exception statement of sorts.

There are many ways to expain why an attack seems not to effect their user.
Um, I don't think it even matters for YnS. Her armor is impossibly strong, and her body is imbued with so much raw magic I could see it reducing the effectiveness of attacks against her by sheer pressure.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:08   Link #88
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Argh. All the discussion happening while I'm sleeping and out of the house, again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
But do notice that a mages does not require the use of ID to cast spells.
Yup, that is correct. When I said: "This is where Intelligent Devices come in: to help mages use that raw magic..." I was thinking about Nanoha when she first used Raising Heart. Nanoha didnt know anything about casting magic at the time, but thanks to RH she was able to do it.

The Intelligent Devices help the mages with the calculations or whatnot to cast spells. As you guys have mentioned, mages can do the calculations by themselves as well, but definitely these calculations are done faster with the help of a Device.


On the topic of how Yuuno and Lindy cast spells without the help of a Device, do notice that Yuuno closes his eyes to concentrate when casting his spells. Definitely he is doing all the calculations inside his head. This fact alone proves how good Yuuno actually is, even though his Linker Core is not capable of withstanding the constant energy drain done by Raising Heart. If he gets another ID he can withstand, I'm sure he'd be a lot more powerful.

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Originally Posted by BatAttack View Post
Uh huh, except that I don't recall it ever being stated that an AMF drains your life force. I think any normal person or mage could exist in an AMF and remain unharmed indefinitely. Its just that they can't use magic effectively because it becomes defocussed to the point of uselessness.

Hence my comment about the linker core itself being unaffected, only emitted magical energy being defocussed.
Actually, I wasnt trying to contradict you. In fact, what you said is almost the same as what I described in my theory, just that the theory described was more in-depth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burner of Anime View Post
The thing is, the Subaru's RK doesn't always use cartridges to work. There is probably a default setting for continuous strength [it appears to be linked to Mach Caliber for this] that allows the girl to smack the opposition and throw lots of metal around.

In ep5, the revolver unit served as a power generator for her ranged attack. Notice, she spins it manually before casting the magic missile instead of using a cartridge. Cartridge use IMO have always been to augment an existing attack, that or as a means to sidestep complex incantation.
Yes, that's why I'm confused. Subaru doesnt seem to use spells or even the cartridges to enhance her physical strength, and it seems that it is her Revolver Knuckle that is doing all the job. That's why I think that her punching strength comes from a mechanical energy source instead of a spell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I think he's referring to "Diabolic Emission".

*is quite overwhelmed at the moment by the sheer size of this thread, has trouble keeping up*
You know, I was wondering why you havent joined the discussion yet, LoweGear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
Even those who have done science in university will find some of this challenging...

On a sidenote since I remembered the Nanoha novel did say something about how colour relates to each mage, I'll post what it does say, I can't belive I completly forgot about this, but at least it did prove my freqency theory.
Wait, Nanoha NOVEL? Do you mean the Comics? I thought the only extras were a Comics manga and the Sound Stages...

Quote:
"The color of magical light changes due to the magical wavelength of each person, It is completly unrelated to specialisation or characteristic of the magic used"

The above is what I could get from it, feel free to retranslate it with a better translation, since I kinda know its petty bad.
I think it was Kha who came up with that theory a little while back, but thanks to this info the magic circle color case is closed.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:16   Link #89
Kikaifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
"The color of magical light changes due to the magical wavelength of each person, It is completly unrelated to specialisation or characteristic of the magic used"

The above is what I could get from it, feel free to retranslate it with a better translation, since I kinda know its petty bad.
I'd say that goes against your theory. "It is completely unrelated to the characteristics"- Wavelength in magic has no effect on its properties outside color, totally different from real EM radiation where wavelength is the defining property.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:17   Link #90
Erio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
When he's healing Nanoha it's just a glowing ball he's got in his hands. Similarly when he's running away from Vita and preparing their 'port-away in the second A's ep., it's just a glowing ball of energy he's got in his hand. He uses a diagram to defend against Vita but he's too busy running away to be standing on a circle.
Perhaps... Yuuno can create a magical circle by just clapping his hands...?

... I'm joking.

Quote:
Um, I don't think it even matters for YnS. Her armor is impossibly strong, and her body is imbued with so much raw magic I could see it reducing the effectiveness of attacks against her by sheer pressure.
I agree. I'm sure she was aware that she'd be damaged by the expansion of the Field, but she didnt care.
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Old 2007-05-07, 12:52   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Yes, that's why I'm confused. Subaru doesnt seem to use spells or even the cartridges to enhance her physical strength, and it seems that it is her Revolver Knuckle that is doing all the job. That's why I think that her punching strength comes from a mechanical energy source instead of a spell.
Subaru's base physical strength is already quite substantial [eg; carrying Teana around in ep1], though it doesn't make sense to use her unarmoured fist against the opposition. The thing is, there is one spell that is 'on' all the time when using an ID actively- Barrier Jacket.

Now, we know from Fate and Nanoha that the BJ not only serves as defensive armour, but is also able to mount subsystems like the Flyer Fin for additional speed or heavier armour plate. Having a BJ serve as a specialist powered armour for additional strength isn't very far fetched.

I suspect that Revolver Knuckle works by converting Subaru's mana into kinetic energy, released as a shockwave on impact. Her missile bolts are likely an encased sphere of compressed energy working on the same principle. It's probably why she is so effective in melee against an AMF drone, she really isn't hitting them with magic but using her BJ's protection field to negate the AMF, then tear apart the machine on contact.

Cartridge use for her is to either harden her protection field or increase the store of power in her hit. Not very elegent but still an effective combat style.

Subaru's ID is decidedly more proactive that the one Teana uses. In combat it has thus far appeared to take evasive manuevers independent of command, formed a skybridge without asking, errected a protection field against Vita the instant she came swinging and generally run into reckless charges at the opposition. Mach Caliber may be one of the following:

-Is imbued with telepathy in order to react so quickly during the mess of combat.
-Has been programed with Subaru's combat style and personality in order to predict and execute the most likely command. [more likely since the girl is pretty straightforward ]
-is a fully sentient AI capable of making sharp tactical decision is combat [Unlikely, Bardich and Raising Heart isn't even this good]

My money is on the AI program having a predictive program based on the user's preferred style.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:22   Link #92
Kha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burner of Anime View Post
Subaru's ID is decidedly more proactive that the one Teana uses. In combat it has thus far appeared to take evasive manuevers independent of command, formed a skybridge without asking, errected a protection field against Vita the instant she came swinging and generally run into reckless charges at the opposition. Mach Caliber may be one of the following:

-Is imbued with telepathy in order to react so quickly during the mess of combat.
-Has been programed with Subaru's combat style and personality in order to predict and execute the most likely command. [more likely since the girl is pretty straightforward ]
-is a fully sentient AI capable of making sharp tactical decision is combat [Unlikely, Bardich and Raising Heart isn't even this good]

My money is on the AI program having a predictive program based on the user's preferred style.
Yawn... Why the heck am I still up? *rubs eyes*

Click, click...

But you got to consider that Mach was built much later than RH or Bard. Both senior devices were given upgrades over time, but normally there's a limit to how much something can be upgraded. Its safe to assume that Mach was built with the latest in MC technology that Chario could pull out of the racks, and that baseline might be even more advanced than RH and Bard.

With that said, this opens up to the M-Defensor attachment to form Super RH and Bard, if RH and Bard start finding themselves outmoded in the modern battlefield.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:43   Link #93
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Burner of Anime View Post
-is a fully sentient AI capable of making sharp tactical decision is combat [Unlikely, Bardich and Raising Heart isn't even this good]
Actually, they are that good (They're called Intelligent Devices for a reason). I've lost count of the amount of times when Bardiche inserted aditional commands to Fate's spells. Favourite example should be Blitz Rush. Or when Raising Heart erected a protecion without being asked to do so.

But there is a difference between those two and Mach that you failed to notice: Whereas Raising Heart and Bardiche are offensive devices, Mach Caliber is a support device, naturally you would see more input from the device itself.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:45   Link #94
Erio
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Originally Posted by Burner of Anime View Post
Subaru's base physical strength is already quite substantial [eg; carrying Teana around in ep1], though it doesn't make sense to use her unarmoured fist against the opposition. The thing is, there is one spell that is 'on' all the time when using an ID actively- Barrier Jacket.
Haha, yeah, I remember now. And Subaru was able to throw Teana 100 feet into the air.

Quote:
Now, we know from Fate and Nanoha that the BJ not only serves as defensive armour, but is also able to mount subsystems like the Flyer Fin for additional speed or heavier armour plate. Having a BJ serve as a specialist powered armour for additional strength isn't very far fetched.
That's interesting. It sure may be possible.

Quote:
I suspect that Revolver Knuckle works by converting Subaru's mana into kinetic energy, released as a shockwave on impact. Her missile bolts are likely an encased sphere of compressed energy working on the same principle. It's probably why she is so effective in melee against an AMF drone, she really isn't hitting them with magic but using her BJ's protection field to negate the AMF, then tear apart the machine on contact.

Cartridge use for her is to either harden her protection field or increase the store of power in her hit. Not very elegent but still an effective combat style.
Hmm... Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Yūkyūzan Anji from Rurouni Kenshin?

... Nevermind.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:47   Link #95
Kha
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Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Hmm... Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Yūkyūzan Anji from Rurouni Kenshin?

... Nevermind.
Not that big. Someone smaller.

Segara (sp?) Sanosuke.
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Old 2007-05-07, 13:49   Link #96
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Sagara Sousuke? From FMP?
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Old 2007-05-07, 14:06   Link #97
Erio
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Not that big. Someone smaller.

Segara (sp?) Sanosuke.
Sagara Sanosuke, yeah.
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Old 2007-05-07, 15:06   Link #98
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Hmm... Does anyone about any polytheistic myths that actually feature the term "magic"? I just realize I've only really seen it and terms like "wizard" actually mentioned in legends after the fall of Rome. There are priests and wise people, but none of them claim to use something called magic... Based on the descriptions I've seen, we can't really call it technology either, because of the folklore surrounding it. The typical tools are not constructed devices, but rather normal objects of the time period. The idea of fiction is so old that you'd think we'd at least come across mention of some kind of freaking huge device...
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Old 2007-05-07, 16:00   Link #99
Kikaifan
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Norse Myth has the seide (sorcery used primarily by female witch-types but also by Odin) and the rune magic used by Odin.

Plus all sorts of unclassified stuff like their magic items and the powers of guys like Utgarda-Loki.

It's worth pointing out, though, that the study of Norse myth in general and what I've read in specific are limited by the fact that the great majority of sources on it were written after Christianity overtook the native cults.
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Old 2007-05-07, 16:11   Link #100
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Yet the term used would be "seide" correct? It doesn't actually say sorcery. Also, I just looked up a translation for a story about gaining the knowledge of the runes and it just says "runes".
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