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Old 2007-05-10, 09:21   Link #81
LoweGear
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If they wanted to have Hero units in SC2, they'd better take an example from the Command and Conquer or Dawn of War model of heroes: Powerful on their own right because of their special abilities and in certain situations and in the right hands, but not so much so against some units, such as vehicles or superweapons, and not as end-all, be alls.
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Old 2007-05-10, 10:32   Link #82
Mgz
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I wish they would improve the FMV /ingame movie in SC2 with real actor in zerg/protoss suits (such as C&C3)or kick ass state of the art rendering, make the game more exciting to play (at least it is for me :P ), also balanced between 3 races is the key
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Old 2007-05-10, 11:00   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgz View Post
I wish they would improve the FMV /ingame movie in SC2 with real actor in zerg/protoss suits (such as C&C3)or kick ass state of the art rendering, make the game more exciting to play (at least it is for me :P ), also balanced between 3 races is the key
Erm... if there is one thing Blizzard is good at, it is that their cinematic tend to be state of the art (and jaw-dropping) for its time (see latest SCG trailers for reference). I wouldn't want them to go live-action though... that's C&C's thing, not Blizzard's. Blizzard is all about the CG cinematic.

I still get the thrills watching SC:BW's opening cinematic.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-05-10, 11:10   Link #84
LoweGear
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"Where's our air support?!"

*points up*


I so saw that scene countless times, and it still doesn't fail to impress.


And yes, I do agree that Blizzard should stick to their CGI cinematics, ever since they've made awesome cinematics, especially the W3 ones. It would be a shame if they suddenly switched to live action now.
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Old 2007-05-10, 16:34   Link #85
gummybear
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you mean like this?

8 more days till we know what is the next epic game in 2009

And I am a bit tired of getting back stab in SC right now, I hope they do something about that.... It's not so much that I care that I get a loss when I leave a game. It's more of the fact that you and 2 other people on the same team spend up to 40 minutes in a hard long battle, only to find out the guy that didn't send 1 single unit outside to aid the offensive push was only there willing to wait all that time just for the fight to be over so that he can attack allies base... It's like finding a stalker outside your window beating his meat on you, kind of sick. What? they don't have the balls to fight us heads on?

Last edited by gummybear; 2007-05-10 at 16:55.
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Old 2007-05-10, 19:20   Link #86
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Ahhh starcraft, loved this game. Played it soooooo much!. In a way i hope it sticks to what its original was like but then again, i'd just be playing starcraft. Or maybe they should give it a complete revamp with the races and stuff, but that could butcher the game. Oh well.

This game was an epic though. Awesome cinematics for its time, awesome storyline too (none of that happy ending shit when its blatantly not happening) and very good gameplay. Best RTS i've played. Big armies dont necessarily win and different strategies will work (power, rush, turtle, all depends on the micro at the beginning). I think the best thing about the game was how each race is truly unique, on how they mine, the units they produce, and their capabilities.

Cant wait til SC2 comes out. I dont really game much nowadays, but this might turn me back into a geek. Just out of curiousity, how many people still play SC or BW, and on what servers under what names?
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Old 2007-05-10, 20:08   Link #87
celcius
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WC3 and it's smaller food pool meant that people had to take care of units as well as heroes. A footman dying is already a huge blow to your force. This change more or less required people to be able micro manage their units. While I think this was done to prevent massing and quite logical in a way, logical does not always equate to fun. As it is, I already have a hard time monitoring my bases and expansions, producing units and assembling a new offense unit, and semi-controlling any attack/defense battles. Adding micro to all that would probably me saying "KILL MY BASES" xD
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Last edited by celcius; 2007-05-10 at 20:22.
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Old 2007-05-11, 23:11   Link #88
gummybear
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I am sorry, but there is no excuse in what they did in WC3, players were just forced to play with 1 kind of tactic for each race due to the unless amount of food pool. I remember it was even more annoying when WC3 first came out, almost everyone was cheap and do the unroot tree army, it was Brave heart in slow motion... If they pull the same shit on SC2, Blizzard offically are killing their ledgency on purpose.
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Old 2007-05-12, 01:42   Link #89
Jazzrat
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Quote:
I am sorry, but there is no excuse in what they did in WC3, players were just forced to play with 1 kind of tactic for each race due to the unless amount of food pool. I remember it was even more annoying when WC3 first came out, almost everyone was cheap and do the unroot tree army, it was Brave heart in slow motion... If they pull the same shit on SC2, Blizzard offically are killing their ledgency on purpose.
Actually, WC3 wasn't going to have any base building/resource harvesting aspect in it till much later in it's development. The original warcraft 3 was more about micromanaging a set of army. IIRC, you could only control your army indirectly through your heroes. I guess they revamped the system to a more familiar gameplay for the usual RTS fans over new ideas.

Actually, i rather they come up with a new RTS gameplay for SC2 instead of sticking to the tried and true method. Otherwise, it's going to end up as a warcraft in space (which Starcraft was first ridiculed for).
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Old 2007-05-12, 03:16   Link #90
felix
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Yeah, I do believe one of the protos heroes has some line, like:
"This is not Warcraft in Space"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess we'll probably find out if there are new ideas... in a few days.
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Old 2007-05-12, 03:55   Link #91
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Actually, WC3 wasn't going to have any base building/resource harvesting aspect in it till much later in it's development. The original warcraft 3 was more about micromanaging a set of army. IIRC, you could only control your army indirectly through your heroes. I guess they revamped the system to a more familiar gameplay for the usual RTS fans over new ideas.

Actually, i rather they come up with a new RTS gameplay for SC2 instead of sticking to the tried and true method. Otherwise, it's going to end up as a warcraft in space (which Starcraft was first ridiculed for).
Regardless of what would be new in SC2, if they just copy WC3's hero system then it would be just Warcraft in space. It is Starcraft, thus it should be allowed to be different from Warcraft.

Frankly, to me Starcraft means a complex and well balanced RTS with multiple options and means of playing for everyone. But it still needs to be a strategy game, not an RPG. There is a market for innovative games, but that is no reason to leave those of us who want good solid RTS in the dirt.

I own both WC3 and SC. But SC is the only game I am still playing, because WC3 is simply a far different game and not at all a substitute to SC. There is a market for an updated Starcraft, and SC2, with its name sake, should make sure to not let us down.
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Old 2007-05-12, 04:13   Link #92
Skane
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I don't quite get why people are vilifying WC3 so much for, when it was WC2 that set the foundation for SC. SC evolved from WC2, and WC3 was just the next step. If SC2 evolves from WC3's engine, it would just be the next natural step, especially since SC evolved from WC2's engine in the first place.

Whatever SC is, you will need to thank WC2 for making it happen. WC2 was the game of choice during its time, and its popularity no doubt aided in SC's development.

The WC-series is immensely popular, and people don't seem to get this. Low figures for WC3? You want to compare the number of people playing WoW to SC now? Why do you think Blizzard made a Battlenet-compliant version of WC2 (years after the fact)? People migrated from WC3 to WoW. SC-players don't have such a choice (yet).

There is only ONE SC game, plus an expansion. The WC-series has spanned over a decade or so already, with FOUR different incarnations.

Changes will happen. It is inevitable. The differences between the four games of WC were pretty radical. I don't see why it would be any different for SC.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-05-12, 04:35   Link #93
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
I don't quite get why people are vilifying WC3 so much for, when it was WC2 that set the foundation for SC. SC evolved from WC2, and WC3 was just the next step. If SC2 evolves from WC3's engine, it would just be the next natural step, especially since SC evolved from WC2's engine in the first place.

Whatever SC is, you will need to thank WC2 for making it happen. WC2 was the game of choice during its time, and its popularity no doubt aided in SC's development.

The WC-series is immensely popular, and people don't seem to get this. Low figures for WC3? You want to compare the number of people playing WoW to SC now? Why do you think Blizzard made a Battlenet-compliant version of WC2 (years after the fact)? People migrated from WC3 to WoW. SC-players don't have such a choice (yet).

There is only ONE SC game, plus an expansion. The WC-series has spanned over a decade or so already, with FOUR different incarnations.

Changes will happen. It is inevitable. The differences between the four games of WC were pretty radical. I don't see why it would be any different for SC.

Cheers.
I am not vilifying WC3. As I said, WC3 is simply going off in its own specialisation. But you can't honestly claim a SC game that has its gameplay revolving around half-a-dozen super-units with everything else as window dressing, and penalties for possessing large armies, is truly Starcraft. WC3 is a Hero game, SC isn't. If people want more Warcraft, they can ask for more Warcraft. Blizzard would hopefully prefer to have two separate fan-bases who have different RTS tastes, than to just have one fan-base and leave the rest of us out.
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Old 2007-05-12, 04:52   Link #94
Skane
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SC2 doesn't have to blindly follow the WC3 system, but it can certainly adopt some of its traits. Like Dawn of War, they can choose to have Heroes that are powerful, but not the end-all be-all of units.

There has already been a basis for this set-up in SC, and besides, SC was the first one to introduce the supply-limit in a Blizzard game (it caused quite a furore amongst the WC2 players back then). It would be interesting if they adopt the squad system of DoW (small number of squads, but large number of units).

Cheers.
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Old 2007-05-12, 06:52   Link #95
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
SC2 doesn't have to blindly follow the WC3 system, but it can certainly adopt some of its traits. Like Dawn of War, they can choose to have Heroes that are powerful, but not the end-all be-all of units.

There has already been a basis for this set-up in SC, and besides, SC was the first one to introduce the supply-limit in a Blizzard game (it caused quite a furore amongst the WC2 players back then). It would be interesting if they adopt the squad system of DoW (small number of squads, but large number of units).

Cheers.
Technically we already have such units for custom SC maps. However due to a comparatively generous food cap such units are more for flavour than being essential. It is easier to believe you can have a hero who turn the tide of battle in a fantasy setting than a super Dragoon that could take on a dozen marines+medic in a SciFi setting.

Anyway, one would have to be in a REALLY long game to hit the 200 cap in SC, which generally lead to fleets of battleships, Carriers, or whatever army combination of your choice. That's the key word here; choice. My issue with WC3 isn't with the cap itself, but the upkeep penalty and its purpose. The reason we get penalised for having WC3 armies up to certain sizes was to make sure Heroes are absolutely unmatched compared to everything else. That most armies without heroes would be of a size small enough for any enemy hero to handle.

That's fine for the game that WC3 is, it is an interesting philosophy that works. But let it be known that I was most annoyed by this when I found that out.
Jazzrat mentioned earlier that WC3 weren't suppose to have any macro at all. If this is true, it explains why I always felt WC3 was a strategy game that didn't really want to be an RTS.

I am not asking SC2 to be SC1 in 3D; I am asking that what makes SC1 work, what makes SC1 popular, be kept. Otherwise there is no point calling it Starcraft.
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Old 2007-05-12, 07:53   Link #96
felix
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What I really want to see isn't a rock paper scisor system for units, that's pretty boring and barelly makes the game good. Instead I want huge openings for rock paper scisors stratagies, were every stratagy has one or more counters (more or less effective).

In other words the game should be open to biginers with less effective but pretty obvious and easy to learn counters, but there should also be opening for pros to use effective hard to master or less obvious conters. That probably don't just envolv unit stats.
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Old 2007-05-12, 11:00   Link #97
gummybear
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if they are going to have hero units, they should make some game type opition that you can make melee without heros. I personally don't like heros, make the game too cookie cutter.

SC shouldn't fit into the same type of games as WC because the theme of SC is more of survival of races where WC is heros/conquest of kingdoms. Having upkeep tax doesn't make much sense in SC, the ones that was fighting the wars are there with no choice orther then being wipe out by the zerg/hybit; it's like the goverment would think more people will join the effort during WW2 by slaping heavy tax to the soldiers that joined ... can you say "oppression"
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Old 2007-05-14, 07:20   Link #98
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Well www.blizzard.com is counting down towards the game announcement. Whether its Starcraft 2 remains to be seen.
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Old 2007-05-14, 07:28   Link #99
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Well i like Starcraft because the races are so cool. Warhammer was probrably similar to Starcraft Terrans, but without Protoss and Zergs, the game was boring.

If they want to make the next Starcraft 2,i was waiting for too damn long already, till i never really expect to see it anymore and i thought that it was a classic game that cant be made again.
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Old 2007-05-14, 07:41   Link #100
Skane
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Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
Well i like Starcraft because the races are so cool. Warhammer was probrably similar to Starcraft Terrans, but without Protoss and Zergs, the game was boring.

If they want to make the next Starcraft 2,i was waiting for too damn long already, till i never really expect to see it anymore and i thought that it was a classic game that cant be made again.
You're doing a huge discredit to "Warhammer 40,000" if you are trying to imply that they copied Starcraft. War40K predates Starcraft by 11 years.

When Starcraft first appeared, the common snub was that it was copying the War40K universe, with the Terran being the Space Marines, the Protoss being the Eldar, and the Zerg being the Tyranids.

Of course, that comparison is no longer thrown about since Starcraft has proven its own worth, but it is simply absurd to say that War40K is copying Starcraft when War40K came out first.

Cheers.
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