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Old 2004-02-07, 02:23   Link #21
Seifer_us
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Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method
the 12 o'clock block is the starting point for the anime portion of adult swim. FLCL and other anime succeeded at that time. Anime is not the top draw of AS anyway.
I'm well aware of that. What I mean is that I can't see how a show that was originally aimed at children (even though it might be popular with some adults) can possibly do even remotely well in that time slot.
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Old 2004-02-07, 10:49   Link #22
method
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Well Inuyasha is aimed at children and aired at that time and succeeded, so that won't hurt Detective Conan.
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Old 2004-02-08, 15:53   Link #23
aomizu keri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifer_us
AHH!!! That's awful! Jimmy Kudo and Rachel Moore?! AUUUUGGGH!!!!! *head explodes*

As if the North American audience wouldn't be able to handle hearing Shinichi Kudo... God, I hope they do reversible covers on the DVDs too. I don't want "Case Closed" smeared on the front of my "DETECTIVE CONAN" DVDs. Geez. As the pull to get more and more anime on TV moves forward, companies get more and more ridiculous with their '"localization"...

Hmph...


WHO THE HELL CHANGED THEM?! LEMME AT'EM LEMME AT'EM!!
*Ahem* Excuse me for my love for Detective Conan.
*Muttering* StupidnogooddirtybakaidioticAmericans...
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Old 2004-02-09, 02:32   Link #24
StarCreator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aomizu keri
WHO THE HELL CHANGED THEM?! LEMME AT'EM LEMME AT'EM!!
*Ahem* Excuse me for my love for Detective Conan.
*Muttering* StupidnogooddirtybakaidioticAmericans...
(markup removed from quote)

I have to echo microlith in that it was probably the Japanese company that made all the dumb changes. FUNi has an interesting track record, but they have not changed names to this degree before. I see no reason why they would start now unless something forced them to.
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Old 2004-02-09, 19:17   Link #25
yeah_yeah_yeah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
Ep 349 just aired on Monday Feb. 2.

The show is very good, it's been on for the past 8 years, and shows up in the top 10 most watched anime programs weekly in Japan. It's one of the best type of Detective genre shows out there (not like the crap that was Spiral and Tantei Gakuen Q).

tantei gakuen is not crap
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Old 2004-04-19, 08:10   Link #26
Suikun
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Detective Conan news! Grr! I thought FUNimation was past this!

From AnimeOnDVD.com
Quote:
FUNimation has announced the release date for its first Detective Conan (which it is releasing as Case Closed in the U.S.) SKUs -- August 24th. Three SKUs will be released on that date. Volume One will include episodes #1-#4, and Volume Two will include episodes #53-#55, both at $19.98. The Starter Set will include both volumes and a collector's box.
Well, I don't know about you guys, but after seeing Yu Yu Hakusho, Fruits Basket, Blue Gender, Kiddy Grade, and Dragon Ball all released uncut, subtitled, and completely in proper order, I thought for sure that FUNimation had become a respectable anime distributor.

I thought for sure that Dragon Ball GT was the very last time we'd see them screw over anime fans by giving us episodes out of order and totally localizing the English dub, and even then it wasn't that bad - sure, they skipped the first 15 episodes, but nobody liked them anyway, and FUNimation vowed to release them uncut and subtitled at some point soon.

But now, it seems with Detective Conan they are completely falling back to their Dragon Ball Z days. First they rename all the characters for the English dub for "legal" reasons, which I now officially see as pure and utter bullsh*t, and now they're releasing the episodes completely out of order. I wouldn't be surprised if come June when DC is supposed to start airing on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim we find out that the music's been completely changed, in typical DBZ fashion.

Man, this just pisses me off.

Even if FUNimation is releasing these DVDs uncut and subtitled, they're not getting my money - not if they're going to play like this.

If they really felt they needed to do this to Detective Conan for the English dub, then the least they could have done was split off the DVDs "Cardcaptor Sakura" style and release all the Japanese episodes in order on their own sets, and do the English dub seperately.

Last edited by Suikun; 2004-04-19 at 08:21.
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Old 2004-04-19, 08:54   Link #27
microlith
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Don't forget that all these changes were done with the assistance of the Japanese company (and at their insistence I believe) so you can't place the blame fully on them. And in a time when you can sue someone for recording SILENCE (and claim it was a copyright violation) then I don't see what they're doing as unreasonable.

Cardcaptor Sakura is a weird case cause Geneon had to ask Nelvana specifically for the right to do a sub-only release. If they hadn't asked a subbed release would never had appeared.

Funimation will be releasing the episodes uncut and subbed. The dub will stay changed I imagine.

I assume since you won't be buying their release you'll be getting the R2s, right?
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:06   Link #28
BanditKing
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I don't know about you guys but this low ep count for an 300 ep series is not good to me.Even if it is SPR$20 such a low ep count it will take them forever like DBZ heck they didn't even finish that yet.I'll pass
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:11   Link #29
Suikun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microlith
Don't forget that all these changes were done with the assistance of the Japanese company (and at their insistence I believe) so you can't place the blame fully on them. And in a time when you can sue someone for recording SILENCE (and claim it was a copyright violation) then I don't see what they're doing as unreasonable.

Cardcaptor Sakura is a weird case cause Geneon had to ask Nelvana specifically for the right to do a sub-only release. If they hadn't asked a subbed release would never had appeared.

Funimation will be releasing the episodes uncut and subbed. The dub will stay changed I imagine.

I assume since you won't be buying their release you'll be getting the R2s, right?
Yup - R2's all the way (or, at least, whatever I can find... *sigh*)... but I sure as hell won't break down to buy FUNimation's release.

I know they keep saying that the name thing was done at the Japanese distributor's (TMS) insistence, but they're going so far with all the changes they're making - I have a hard time believing that all of this is the Japanese company's doing, considering FUNimation's past with Dragon Ball Z combined with the fact that no other distributors like ADV or Bandai run into these types of problems with Japanese distributors (with the sole exception of Mobile Suit Gundam... but we all know that came straight from Tomino himself, and wasn't nearly as controversial as to the legitimacy as this case is).

I know Detective Conan has little to no continuity and is one of the very few anime series that can be seen out of order with few problems, but... at the same time, no good can possibly come from releasing something out of order. Even if there is little to no damage being done, isn't it always better to avoid and prevent even the possibility of problems arising in the continuity and just release things in proper order?

Regardless, I just don't think FUNimation is all that innocent in this, and unless they can give more specific details about these requests that their "Japanese partners", as they put it, are making. With Mobile Suit Gundam, Bandai flat out told us that Tomino himself didn't want the original opening or the Japanese voices released in the US... add to that the fact that everyone knew that Tomino was a little... protective of the first Gundam series, and it all seemed very legitamit, which is why I had few problems supporting Bandai's MSG DVDs (the only dub-only DVDs I've bought)...

But FUNimation just keeps naming off this "Japanese partner" that is responsible for all this, giving us no believable specifics (is it TMS demanding these changes? TV Tokyo? Who?) all the while not seeming to be trying to do anything to fight against these requests... I just have a hard time accepting any of these reasons FUNi keeps giving as anything other than total BS.

Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, FUNimation looks totally responsible at this point, and in a time when things like fansubs are becoming more and more popular, with more and more people becoming "fans" of these shows in the sense that they want things uncut, unchanged, and in-order, this type of release just isn't acceptable, and I hope FUNimation gets very little support for this!
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:20   Link #30
BanditKing
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Wait a min the title change was because of some copyright shit.

Funi did the name change by themself it even say on the Cased Close website saying they want to change for the america people to understand it more easy not because of Japanese licensor.

Edit:Spelling yes my spelling is very bad

Last edited by BanditKing; 2004-04-19 at 09:39.
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:29   Link #31
Suikun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditKing
Wait a min the title change was because of some copyright shit.

Funi did the name change by themself it even say on the Cased Close website saying they want to change for the the america poeple to understand it more easy not because of Japanese licensor.
Actually, you're right. Thinking about it more, they said they only "worked with their Japanese partners" to choose new names for the characters for American audiences to better understand the show. And Detective Conan was changed to Case Closed because of copyright issues. So, as far as I'm concerned, FUNimation themselves has yet to say that the Japanese companies are forcing these changes - only that FUNimation is working with them to "choose" these things.

I can understand the change from Detective Conan to Case Closed, but I absolutely cannot understand any of the other changes, and I'm firmly convinced, based on FUNimation's evasive and generic statements thus far, that TMS/TV Tokyo/Other Japanese companies have little to nothing to do with this and FUNimation is fully responsible for a vast majority of it. They have a past of this - it's not like I'm pointing towards a distributor like Geneon and saying "OMG Thy so TOTALLY ruined ALL THEYre sh0ws and sux!" - this is FUNimation, and they do have a past of things like this. I just always thought that most of it had to do with when they were working with Saban on Dragon Ball Z. But now, we see that this is not the case.
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:33   Link #32
Kyuven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditKing
Wait a min the title change was because of some copyright shit.

Funi did the name change by themself it even say on the Cased Close website saying they want to change for the the america poeple to understand it more easy not because of Japanese licensor.
i seriously wanna know what they were thinking
"detective conan" tells me a lot more than "Case Closed"
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:56   Link #33
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suikun
I know they keep saying that the name thing was done at the Japanese distributor's (TMS) insistence, but they're going so far with all the changes they're making - I have a hard time believing that all of this is the Japanese company's doing, considering FUNimation's past with Dragon Ball Z combined with the fact that no other distributors like ADV or Bandai run into these types of problems with Japanese distributors (with the sole exception of Mobile Suit Gundam... but we all know that came straight from Tomino himself, and wasn't nearly as controversial as to the legitimacy as this case is).
Note that ADV or Bandai don't really carry long/big franchises (except Gundam), whereas Dragon Ball and Detective Conan are fairly big franchises. The only exception to this rule would probably be Viz's Inu Yasha.
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Old 2004-04-19, 09:58   Link #34
DrWho2002
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Location: Canada, eh?
Even if it's not the japanese licensor's making these demands on Funi (which I think it is) I think the releasing eps 53-55 right away as Vol. 2 has something to do with the TV deal they have with Cartoon Network. Those eps I believe come right after what's going to air so far on TV, and they probably don't want the show to interfere with DVD sales (I've seen this happen with other NA shows). The show starts in June and the first DVDs are out in August. It makes sense in a way. The show ends, and people can start picking up the series on DVD at the point they left off when watching the show on TV.

Funi was probably just scared of having to deal with any possible copyright infringement on the name of Conan (with Conan the Barbarian or the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle estate), and took the easy way out with changing the name of the show.

As for ep count, be glad we're getting it. R2 DVD's for the show at max have 4 eps a disc. You can't get old Conan eps on DVD, they're only available from old Laserdisc, and many times on those and R2 DVD's, the episodes were released not in the same order as they were shown on Television in Japan either. So the Japanese never got it in order either.
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Old 2004-04-19, 10:50   Link #35
Suikun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
Even if it's not the japanese licensor's making these demands on Funi (which I think it is) I think the releasing eps 53-55 right away as Vol. 2 has something to do with the TV deal they have with Cartoon Network. Those eps I believe come right after what's going to air so far on TV, and they probably don't want the show to interfere with DVD sales (I've seen this happen with other NA shows). The show starts in June and the first DVDs are out in August. It makes sense in a way. The show ends, and people can start picking up the series on DVD at the point they left off when watching the show on TV.

Funi was probably just scared of having to deal with any possible copyright infringement on the name of Conan (with Conan the Barbarian or the Sir Arthur Conan Doyle estate), and took the easy way out with changing the name of the show.

As for ep count, be glad we're getting it. R2 DVD's for the show at max have 4 eps a disc. You can't get old Conan eps on DVD, they're only available from old Laserdisc, and many times on those and R2 DVD's, the episodes were released not in the same order as they were shown on Television in Japan either. So the Japanese never got it in order either.
Well, yeah, but they had some form of sense to them - in Japan, there were a few specials here and there that interupted the current storyarc/saga; the DVDs merely paired things up togethor. It's one thing to have episodes 73, 74, and 77 on the DVD if they make sense togethor - it's another to have eps. 1, 2, 3, and 4 on one DVD, and 53, 54, 55 on another. That's cutting straight across, what, two different seasons - it makes no sense.

I think the only theory presented here that I *might* be able to handle is the TV deal - FUNimation is notorious for wanting to be at least several DVDs - if not one full storyarc ahead of the Cartoon Network broadcast. I'm pretty sure that's why it's taking so long for new Yu Yu Hakusho eps to hit Toonami - FUNimation really likes having the jump on the DVDs (which is total opposite of most US licensors who like the TV exposure before the DVDs) and 52 episodes seems like just the number Cartoon Network would buy for a show that's going to air daily on AS, so I could kinda' see that. But at the same time, why not just postpone the CN airings of the episodes like they are with Yu Yu Hakusho?
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Old 2004-04-19, 13:20   Link #36
eLstar
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Want some examples of name changes?

Try and guess who they really are:

Jimmy Kudo
Rachel Moore
Roger Moore
Inspecteor Meguire

You know the argument where someone says:

Quote:
Don't hate on these dubbing companies because without them, Aniem wouldn't come to North America
Yeah well, I'd gladly never want to see another Anime dub ever again if all companies turn out to be like FUNimation.
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Old 2004-04-19, 13:50   Link #37
Suikun
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The thing is, I expect this sort of release with 4Kids and Nelvana. But prior to now, FUNimation truly had my respect with the way they released Fruists Basket, Yu Yu Hakusho, Blue Gender, and Kiddy Grade. Sure, the episode count is low on many of their releases, but I was able to overlook that.

With the success of Dragon Ball and Yu Yu Hakusho - two series' who's English dubs were fairly faithful and lacked name changes or altered storylines or replaced music - I though that FUNimation had proven once and for all, not only to themselves but to other distributors like 4Kids and Nelvana, that anime can succeed on US television without a ton of localization. I thought for sure that FUNimation would, at some point, be able to set the example for 4Kids and convince them not to butcher their dubs and release subtitled DVDs (since 4Kids and FUNimation have a close distribution partnership) but now, FUNimation seems to be completely back tracking.

I used to defend FUNimation to the hilt in every situation against all the haters out there, because I thought they really were a respectable anime distributor. At the very least, I figured if they absolutely felt the need to localize a few English dubs here and there for TV, they'd at least not screw fans over by releasing the subtitled version in order. But now, not only are they localizing their dubs once again, but they're screwing with the fans of the original version. Right now, about the only thing seperating 4Kids from FUNimation is that FUNimation releases the subtitled version... but since they're doing so out of order, it's not doing too many people too much good - you're better off just (searching long and hard for) getting the R2's, cause FUNimation's DVDs might as well just be dub only.
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Old 2004-04-19, 14:17   Link #38
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suikun
I used to defend FUNimation to the hilt in every situation against all the haters out there, because I thought they really were a respectable anime distributor. At the very least, I figured if they absolutely felt the need to localize a few English dubs here and there for TV, they'd at least not screw fans over by releasing the subtitled version in order. But now, not only are they localizing their dubs once again, but they're screwing with the fans of the original version. Right now, about the only thing seperating 4Kids from FUNimation is that FUNimation releases the subtitled version... but since they're doing so out of order, it's not doing too many people too much good - you're better off just (searching long and hard for) getting the R2's, cause FUNimation's DVDs might as well just be dub only.
Funimation puts the sub and dub track on the same dvd. the sub track will have the original names. the reason they change the dub track names is usualy because voice actors have a hard enough time pronouncing their own characters name let alone anything else from the japanese. (See inuyasha). This is not about localization. Beside 70% of the people who buy the dvd will buy it for the dub track. All of the hardcore fanatics will want the sub track with the unchanged names anyway.
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Old 2004-04-19, 14:44   Link #39
Suikun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab
Funimation puts the sub and dub track on the same dvd. the sub track will have the original names. the reason they change the dub track names is usualy because voice actors have a hard enough time pronouncing their own characters name let alone anything else from the japanese. (See inuyasha). This is not about localization.
It is localization - anytime they make specific changes to cater towards the US audience - especially those involving removing cultural references or changing names or music - it is localizing the product for that particular market. In many ways, dubbing by itself is localization, but further localization like changing names from Japanese names to American names, for whatever reasons, is localizing it beyond what I find is needed or acceptable. I don't think they're doing this just so that the voice actors will pronounce things better - but even if they were, it's still (needless) localization of the dub.

Quote:
Beside 70% of the people who buy the dvd will buy it for the dub track. All of the hardcore fanatics will want the sub track with the unchanged names anyway.
Yeah, and that's fine - I rarely watch the English dub anyway.

But let me clarify my statement from my last post:

Although I much prefer they keep the English dub as close as possible (as they did with Yu Yu Hakusho) and keep as little localization as possible (since, like I said earlier, it's been more or less proven by shows like Yu Yu Hakusho that localization doesn't seem to make any anime do any better on TV) I am okay if they feel, for whatever odd reasons, that they have to localize the dub for the US. I don't agree with it - I don't see any reason why the US audience shouldn't be exposed to more of the cultural aspects of anime, and I don't see why they need things handed to them on a plate with American names and American-ish sounding music and whatnot - but if FUNimation feels they must do this, for whatever reasons, ultimately I'm fine with it since the dub isn't even meant for the fans such as myself, and in the end that's why there's a subtitled version on the DVDs as well.

But what I can't live with is when they not only screw with the English version, but the subtitled version as well! The subtitled version, as I said, is there for the reason of pleasing the fans while the English dub is for the mainstream audience. But with the un-fanfriendly way they're going to be releasing the subtitled version, they might as well not even put it on there - they might as well release it dub only because if the entire purpose of the subtitled version is to please the fans, yet they won't even be releasing it in order, then the subtitled version's purpose is defeated and everyone might as well consider it a dub only release and just by the R2's.

I admit I may be blowing this out of proportion - in the end, FUNimation will probably still end up releasing every episode on DVD in subtitled form. But at the same time, this just isn't a good trend for FUNimation to start, and I think things need to be blown out of proportion because if fans don't make a big deal about this then there's nothing stopping FUNimation from doing this with other shows they might get - shows like Naruto or One Piece that absolutely need to be seen in order. If fans don't make a big deal out of this, FUNimation could easily do it again and again, worse and worse, without a second thought.
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Old 2004-04-19, 17:36   Link #40
BanditKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab
Funimation puts the sub and dub track on the same dvd. the sub track will have the original names. the reason they change the dub track names is usualy because voice actors have a hard enough time pronouncing their own characters name let alone anything else from the japanese. (See inuyasha). This is not about localization. Beside 70% of the people who buy the dvd will buy it for the dub track. All of the hardcore fanatics will want the sub track with the unchanged names anyway.
I don't get it.Why does people think that there are either an sub fan or an dub fan but not both.I like both sub and dub and wish the name to be the same on both track.Is that so hard to ask?I know not all people can pronounce but there poeple who can.I wish they don't change the name even if it hard to pronounce.

Last edited by BanditKing; 2004-04-19 at 18:01.
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