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Old 2007-05-13, 23:22   Link #41
Tak
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Then again, don't take the SEED franchise too seriously, eh? Its not meant to be taken seriously. Just sit back, grab a can of booze, and enjoy the show.

- Tak (If I wanted anything mecha-serious, I'd turn to Macross, but thats only a personal recommendation)
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Old 2007-05-13, 23:26   Link #42
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Apparently desertion and defection are no longer considered terrible crimes in the military in the C.E. >_>

Too bad. Kinda gratifying to smack a traitor upside the head and lock him/her away for 50 years... If we're doing it the "nice" way... Could just break out the blind-fold and cigarettes if we wanna do it the "quick" way.
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Old 2007-05-13, 23:39   Link #43
Nightengale
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"Screw the rules, I am law!"

Anyway, SEED's appeal isn't its "seriousness" anyway. It's fun entertainment, if you can get past the aspects most people find annoying.
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Old 2007-05-13, 23:52   Link #44
Demongod86
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Ehhh? Lacus rules all with fluffy pinkness and Lacus dust. Nobody will notice anything horrible because the pinkish pixy dust will intoxicate them all!
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Old 2007-05-14, 17:14   Link #45
Shinn_Kabuto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thephreak View Post
i agree, but Yamato will definitely not die, since, like u said, he's been made into Jesus. he can take over the world if he wants too...whos gonna stop him?
there is only one who can stop Yamato, as I sing this song...

Spoiler for there is only one who can stop Yamato, as I sing this song...:
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Old 2007-05-14, 19:34   Link #46
Naive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Knight View Post
This series has so much god-damn turn coating, I'm surprised no one's been shot on sight.

The loyal bitch of Jesus Yamato, Athrun has joined and deserted ZAFT a mind boggling 3 times (He should just fight and not think of ideologies, they just confuse his simple mind). Yzak and Deark both have deserted twice, and were both spared the firing squad the first time by Lord Dullindal (I bet they deserted the second time just because they knew who was going to win and wanted to get in on the glory, opportunistic bastards)

The Virgin Mary 2.0 Lacus also completed her power grab and controls the Earth Sphere now. (After allowing ZAFT to wipe out the Feddies and moving in to consolidate her power) How is her peace going to be different from Lord Dullindal's peace since she is obviously making people bend to her will.


If one of the Big Four die in the movie, I'll be ectatic, but regardless, I'm just going around say "Oh god, what the fuck?"
OMG, can I please quote you for my sig on this

"The loyal bitch of Jesus Yamato, Athrun has joined and deserted ZAFT a mind boggling 3 times (He should just fight and not think of ideologies, they just confuse his simple mind)"
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Old 2007-05-14, 22:33   Link #47
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Knight
The loyal bitch of Jesus Yamato, Athrun has joined and deserted ZAFT a mind boggling 3 times
Technically speaking, Athrun only deserted from ZAFT the two times when he realized that it no longer upheld the principles that he signed up for. Given that he did so both times in Lacus' favour, and that PLANT and ZAFT appear to have had a change of ownership, I don't think that it's much of an issue. Also remember that all of Lacus' PLANT supporters still wore their ZAFT uniforms; it's unlikely that any of them will be considered traitors by ZAFT's new command.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Knight
The Virgin Mary 2.0 Lacus also completed her power grab and controls the Earth Sphere now.
Why do you think that? I thought that it was pretty clear that PLANT would have little to do with Earth politics. Indeed, the major player on Earth should be Orb and it's immediate allies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
Anyway, SEED's appeal isn't its "seriousness" anyway. It's fun entertainment, if you can get past the aspects most people find annoying.
I dunno... I think that SEED's geopolitics make much more sense than those in most of the other Gundam shows. Strictly speaking, it's not horribly realistic, but then again, there aren't exactly a whole lot of anime with realistic politics either. Then again, that's a subject for a different thread...
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Old 2007-05-14, 22:39   Link #48
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I dunno... I think that SEED's geopolitics make much more sense than those in most of the other Gundam shows. Strictly speaking, it's not horribly realistic, but then again, there aren't exactly a whole lot of anime with realistic politics either. Then again, that's a subject for a different thread...
Yes, the overtones. I know that one. I think we've been through some thick discussions on that in the past. Now those were the days. :[

Yeah, I know your point. But my statement was really more of an outlook into the general perception of characteristic central focal on the main cast which ranges from...negativity mostly, and less on the entire SEED universe.
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Old 2007-05-14, 23:50   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Why do you think that? I thought that it was pretty clear that PLANT would have little to do with Earth politics. Indeed, the major player on Earth should be Orb and it's immediate allies.
See, I don't buy that. It's like sticking two people at a table together for a year and telling them not to speak to each other.

I mean, I'd think it especially hard for the residents of PLANT. Look outside the colony and hey, whadda ya know, it's a big, blue object. I wonder if anyone lives there?

>_>

<_<
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Old 2007-05-15, 00:16   Link #50
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
Yeah, I know your point. But my statement was really more of an outlook into the general perception of characteristic central focal on the main cast which ranges from...negativity mostly, and less on the entire SEED universe.
I more or less agree. It's just that I think there's a rather big difference between the way the Cosmic Era shows depict politics and the way it depicts battles. For me, the approach for the former makes quite a bit of sense even if the latter is very much lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JagdPanther
See, I don't buy that. It's like sticking two people at a table together for a year and telling them not to speak to each other.

See, I don't buy that. It's like sticking two people at a table together for a year and telling them not to speak to each other.
Do you mean the way the United States was quite isolated from European affairs for the majority of its existence? PLANT doesn't exactly have any neighbors, and a gap caused by a huge gravity well and 300,000km of empty space is much greater than that of a few thousand kilometers of ocean. Besides, PLANT has plenty of domestic problems to deal with - problems that don't have much to do with foreign affairs.

In any case, my statement was a response to the claim that Lacus somehow "completed her power grab and controls the Earth Sphere now". This is a rather extraordinary assertion, and I'd expect some sort of extraordinary evidence for it.
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Old 2007-05-15, 08:54   Link #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Do you mean the way the United States was quite isolated from European affairs for the majority of its existence? PLANT doesn't exactly have any neighbors, and a gap caused by a huge gravity well and 300,000km of empty space is much greater than that of a few thousand kilometers of ocean. Besides, PLANT has plenty of domestic problems to deal with - problems that don't have much to do with foreign affairs.

In any case, my statement was a response to the claim that Lacus somehow "completed her power grab and controls the Earth Sphere now". This is a rather extraordinary assertion, and I'd expect some sort of extraordinary evidence for it.
The C.E. is, essentially, the 21st Century (in terms of, it's C.E. 74 and it WILL be the 22nd Century soon).

This is not the 17th, 18th, or even 19th centuries when trans-Atlantic travel took weeks. It's the 21st century. Instantaneous communication, global-trade, space travel, etc.

Do you really think that PLANT and the world could hold isolationist views towards each other?

At the very least, there are certain things that humans are incapable of reproducing that they will want. PLANT HAS to trade with Earth for some things and once you get trade, you get political concerns.
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Old 2007-05-15, 09:20   Link #52
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagdPanther View Post
The C.E. is, essentially, the 21st Century (in terms of, it's C.E. 74 and it WILL be the 22nd Century soon).

This is not the 17th, 18th, or even 19th centuries when trans-Atlantic travel took weeks. It's the 21st century. Instantaneous communication, global-trade, space travel, etc.

Do you really think that PLANT and the world could hold isolationist views towards each other?

At the very least, there are certain things that humans are incapable of reproducing that they will want. PLANT HAS to trade with Earth for some things and once you get trade, you get political concerns.
To begin with, a lack of total isolation is hardly indicative that PLANT would somehow control the Earth Sphere.

That said, I'm afraid that you fail history. Even though the United States traded extensively with Europe and the outside world since its inception, it still held largely isolationist views up until the World War II. My point, however, isn't so much that PLANT would be isolationist; rather, its main issues are largely domestic, and will have to be dealt with on domestic terms. Interfering in other countries' policies seems to be a very low priority in such a situation.

Finally, travel across the Atlantic would normally take a bit over a week one way (assuming 20 knot speeds), requiring a small energy expenditure. Travel to moon-orbit, on the other hand, probably means a Hohmann orbital transfer, taking around 3 days one way, and requiring a huge energy expenditure (at least ~60MJ per kilogram transported). The Atlantic Ocean from the 18th to early-20th centuries and the space from Earth to moon-orbit aren't as different as far as barriers go as you seem to think. Arguably, Earth's gravity well might make large-scale commerce completely impractical.
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Last edited by 4Tran; 2007-05-16 at 08:46. Reason: Corrected the energy requirement
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Old 2007-05-15, 11:10   Link #53
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They should totally pull a Beast Wars and go into the UC era and fight Char or something. There's no one else to oppose Lacus in CE, so might as well be UC. After all, they completely transformer'd the Impulse. And Gaia is so cheetor.

EDIT: As far as that Shisho person goes, it makes no sense. While I know I didn't watch the special editions, and only Final Plus, and knowing that the specials "overwrite" gundam contingency, I find that incredibly stupid. Final Plus showed Shisho on the escort ship opposite side of Yzak in the family Zaft screenshot of Lacus on the Eternal. Unless it was like Ackbar jumping out of nowhere going "ITS A TRAP" and some crazy bar fight scene, I don't see how Shisho ended up dead. Special editions imo are stupid, as when I read the changes on wikipedia, some of it actually SKIPS/basically deletes alot of scenes from before. How is that a good thing? Addition is nice, that's why I can accept final plus. But when you choose to show Miguel/Rusty over some fight scenes or between people who actually were more ALIVE during the series then those guys for the sake of flashbacks, something tells me you're on crack.
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Old 2007-05-15, 11:28   Link #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
To begin with, a lack of total isolation is hardly indicative that PLANT would somehow control the Earth Sphere.
I didn't agree with that statement.
Quote:
That said, I'm afraid that you fail history. Even though the United States traded extensively with Europe and the outside world since its inception, it still held largely isolationist views up until the World War II. My point, however, isn't so much that PLANT would be isolationist; rather, its main issues are largely domestic, and will have to be dealt with on domestic terms. Interfering in other countries' policies seems to be a very low priority in such a situation.
I can't see how you can compare the times. I really can't.

I am saying that in a futuristic society, the chances of two large countries (so to speak) being able to not really care about the others' politics is beyond belief, especially when they both just wiped out a large portion of the solar system's population in two large wars. It's a necessity to keep diplomatic relations with each other at a high in order to prevent such disasters from happening again.

And even all the way up until World War II, you're talking about a technologically (comparitively) poor society. Yes, there was the trans-Atlantic telephone and air travel already by then, but even so, it's nothing like today where the internet connects us instantaneously with some guy in a hut in the middle of Burma. You must have heard the sayings that alude to the "world is always getting smaller." It's rather difficult to be isolationist on Earth today. I cannot possibly imagine that 70 years from now a space society could remove themselves from the earth even in terms of just political concerns.

It would be unwise of PLANT to think the way to avoid another Bloody Valentine War would be to just not give a crap about Earth politics.

"Hey, some dude who thinks PLANT is evil and needs to be destroyed just got elected the President of Ficitiousland on Earth. Maybe we should've paid attention sooner."

"Ah, who cares. We need to redo the tax code on Aprillius City."

"Oh, okay."

Yeah, mmhmm. >_>

I'm not gonna lie. My history expertise rests FAR more with the military aspect of the 20th and 21st centuries. I only know what I need to know about the political side. Politicians start wars; militaries fight them. I know about the military side. But in my limited understanding, I still believe that in today's world you just can't coexist without political concerns of your neighbor.

Quote:
Finally, travel across the Atlantic would normally take a bit over a week one way (assuming 20 knot speeds), requiring a small energy expenditure.
Have you heard of this lovely thing called air travel? Last time I went to Europe it only took me a few hours and enough self-control to not to shove the person in the seat next to me down the toilet because he hadn't showered in weeks.
Quote:
Travel to moon-orbit, on the other hand, probably means a Hohmann orbital transfer, taking around 3 days one way, and requiring a huge energy expenditure (at least ~50MJ per kilogram transported). The Atlantic Ocean from the 18th to early-20th centuries and the space from Earth to moon-orbit aren't as different as far as barriers go as you seem to think. Arguably, Earth's gravity well might make large-scale commerce completely impractical.
Yeah.... Hmmm.....

You're making the mistake (as I probably am with other things) of applying physics to this situation. The same universe we're talking about has large walking/flying/swimming mechs with god-like powers. They don't particularly explain the finer points of space travel in SEED/D but they show it enough for me to believe that in that particular universe, space travel isn't exactly something that comes with fanfare and TV cameras anymore. More or less common, while maybe not as common as planes, trains, and automobiles. >_>
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Last edited by JagdPanther; 2007-05-15 at 15:17.
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Old 2007-05-16, 08:36   Link #55
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMooFarm
They should totally pull a Beast Wars and go into the UC era and fight Char or something. There's no one else to oppose Lacus in CE, so might as well be UC. After all, they completely transformer'd the Impulse.
The Earth Sphere as of Cosmic Era 74 isn't even close to being stable or problem-free. There's no shortage potential enemies to draw upon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagdpanther
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
To begin with, a lack of total isolation is hardly indicative that PLANT would somehow control the Earth Sphere.
I didn't agree with that statement.
If that's true, then we're just quibbling over the details. I'll address the rest in a different thread.
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Old 2007-05-16, 16:40   Link #56
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon Blues View Post
From the latest DATA GUNDAM file in this month's Gundam Ace:



Translation for the visually stupid:

PLANT SUPREME COUNCIL
- Lacus Clyne
- Yzak Joule
- Dearka Elsman

ZAFT
- Kira Yamato
- Athrun Zala
- Shinn Asuka
- Lunamaria Hawke

So, that can pretty much put a clog in everyone's rhetoric bantering that Lacus isn't in the Supreme Council... Yes, that includes my speeches too. :-/

Excuse me while I Laugh My A$$ Off...Totally predicted Lacus would just be the defacto idiot-savant leader...

All adults in the CE should be beheaded for this $hit...Mess up and you have to answer to Dearka? Dearka??!?? The Zack Morris of Gundam, puh-leeeeze...The legacy of this show just gets worse and worse as if that's possible...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuujin View Post
I wonder what happened to Shiho...
Hmmm, let me dig around in Fukuda's non-sensical naming grab-bag and pull out a random title...

Here it is: Shiho (Supreme ZAFT GrandMaster of 3rd Party Coordinator Affairs and Pot-Session Planning) <_<...
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2007-05-16 at 16:52.
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Old 2007-05-18, 13:16   Link #57
Obi-Wan
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Shiho couldn't pull off being a stoner.
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Old 2007-05-18, 23:45   Link #58
Nvis
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Wow Yzak & Dearka in the supreme council.....time for another war..........
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Old 2008-09-25, 06:28   Link #59
Akuma_Blade
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My predictions :

-Lacus declares an his Empire
-Shinn strikes back
-Kira hosts a rebellion
-Mass produced Providence Zakus
-Rey strikes back
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Old 2008-09-25, 07:38   Link #60
Paladinoras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma_Blade View Post
My predictions :

-Lacus declares an his Empire
-Shinn strikes back
-Kira hosts a rebellion
-Mass produced Providence Zakus
-Rey strikes back
Kira would never rebel against Lacus.
Rey is dead.
If they can mass produce Providence Zakus, then by god, they should be able to mass produce Legend Gundams and Providence Gundams as well.
Shinn will be pwned by Kira in give-or-take three seconds if he try to kill Lacus
Where the hell is Athrun??
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