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Old 2007-05-23, 11:45   Link #1
That Other Ninja
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[Manga]Latest Kekkei Genkai...

I read a recent post by someone mentioning Shodaime and his bloodline limit, being Mokuton. Although we know the 1st Hokage's Mokuton wasn't a kekkei genkai but rather a unique trait specific to him, because his descendants are unable to use it (Tsunade), is it possible that the gene splicing done on Yamato/Tenzou by Orochimaru has infused this ability into his DNA, turning the ability into a bloodline limit for him and his future offspring?

I find it interesting that Haku's Hyoton was seen as a kekkei genkai, fusing water and wind to create ice but Shodaime's fusion of earth and water to create wood isn't.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Personally I find Mokuton hella sexy. If it is officially announced in the manga as a bloodline trait then all the better for Yamato/Tenzou fans.
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Old 2007-05-23, 11:55   Link #2
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Originally Posted by That Other Ninja View Post
I read a recent post by someone mentioning Shodaime and his bloodline limit, being Mokuton. Although we know the 1st Hokage's Mokuton wasn't a kekkei genkai but rather a unique trait specific to him, because his descendants are unable to use it (Tsunade), is it possible that the gene splicing done on Yamato/Tenzou by Orochimaru has infused this ability into his DNA, turning the ability into a bloodline limit for him and his future offspring?

I find it interesting that Haku's Hyoton was seen as a kekkei genkai, fusing water and wind to create ice but Shodaime's fusion of earth and water to create wood isn't.

Anyway, what are your thoughts? Personally I find Mokuton hella sexy. If it is officially announced in the manga as a bloodline trait then all the better for Yamato/Tenzou fans.
Actually, Shodanime had the Kekkai Genkai, is just that by the time Shoadime ability was mentioned the only thing we knew about Mokuton, was just that it was a Jutsu that could only be done by Shodaime, and even after Yamato was introduced we only were told to be an Unique ability, because we didn’t know about Two elements been mixed, and that joining two elements correspond a Kekkei Genkai.

Basically, both Shodaime and Yamato have the Kekei Genkai to create Mokuton.

Also note that just because you have a genetic trait doesn’t mean your descendants are going to inherit this trait, just look at the uchihas, were only a selected few had the Sharigan. If you ask me, Shodaime Genetic trait was been lost due to evolution, reason why maybe he had it, and not so, his Brother Nindaime and Her Granddaughter Tsunade.
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Old 2007-05-23, 11:55   Link #3
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You said it yourself....Haku did have a kekkei Genkai (ice) while Shodai Hokage (wood) didnt. Just like you said that Shodai's decendants couldnt use it...and that it was a special trait only to him.

Haku and his mother both had the same abilities....i think they were some of the last of their kinds...Haku's kids would've or atleast would have a good chance of getting the same abilities.

And yes...Yamato and his wood techniques are awesome....i am glad that Kishimoto made his abilities come back somehow..

But dont forget to control bijuu is probably his real strenght....(the rumored one that made him Hokage)
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:10   Link #4
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Actually, Shodanime had the Kekkai Genkai, is just that by the time Shoadime ability was mentioned the only thing we knew about Mokuton, was just that it was a Jutsu that could only be done by Shodaime, and even after Yamato was introduced we only were told to be an Unique ability, because we didn’t know about Two elements been mixed, and that joining two elements correspond a Kekkei Genkai.

Basically, both Shodaime and Yamato have the Kekei Genkai to create Mokuton.

Also note that just because you have a genetic trait doesn’t mean your descendants are going to inherit this trait, just look at the uchihas, were only a selected few had the Sharigan. If you ask me, Shodaime Genetic trait was been lost due to evolution, reason why maybe he had it, and not so, his Brother Nindaime and Her Granddaughter Tsunade.
Joining two elements is not a Kekkai Genkai. Shodaime's ability was a special ability, his affinity or mastery over earth and water allowed him Mokuton. Which is why I made the comparison to Haku and Hyoton that was claimed to be a Kekkei Genkai. It seems almost like an inconsistency in Naruto. Maybe a fusion of elements to be a Kekkei Genkai depends on which elements because not all kinds can mix with all the others? *shrugs*

As for Uchiha, it wasn't that only a select few had the Sharingan. Unlike Byukugan which is available at birth, Sharingan has to be activated through special circumstances. All Uchiha's had the potential, but some just hadn't undergone the conditions needed to activate it.

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You said it yourself....Haku did have a kekkei Genkai (ice) while Shodai Hokage (wood) didnt. Just like you said that Shodai's decendants couldnt use it...and that it was a special trait only to him.

Haku and his mother both had the same abilities....i think they were some of the last of their kinds...Haku's kids would've or atleast would have a good chance of getting the same abilities.

And yes...Yamato and his wood techniques are awesome....i am glad that Kishimoto made his abilities come back somehow..

But dont forget to control bijuu is probably his real strenght....(the rumored one that made him Hokage)
Yeah but that's why I mentioned how Yamato got the ability, by DNA manipulation from Orochimaru. A trait specific to bloodlines are all about DNA right. I think it plausible that Mokuton can now be VIEWED as a possible Kekkei Genkai through the circumstances that have allowed Yamato to use the ability, if not officially stated then perhaps eventually because his DNA has been altered.
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:47   Link #5
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Joining two elements is not a Kekkai Genkai.
Actually that's exactly what Kakashi said : being able to merge elements is a Kekkai Genkai.
A Kekkai Genkai doesn't have to pass to the whole family, this idea comes from the most used translation : bloodline, which is technically incorrect.

On a side note it seems the 4 tails was also able to merge elements.
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:47   Link #6
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Joining two elements is not a Kekkai Genkai. Shodaime's ability was a special ability, his affinity or mastery over earth and water allowed him Mokuton. Which is why I made the comparison to Haku and Hyoton that was claimed to be a Kekkei Genkai. It seems almost like an inconsistency in Naruto. Maybe a fusion of elements to be a Kekkei Genkai depends on which elements because not all kinds can mix with all the others? *shrugs*
Edit: Meh, Hunter explained it.

But do we know that the 4 tails was actually creating new elements? Or was it just using elements in combination like Kakuzu?
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:51   Link #7
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Actually that's exactly what Kakashi said : being able to merge elements is a Kekkai Genkai.
A Kekkai Genkai doesn't have to pass to the whole family, this idea comes from the most used translation : bloodline, which is technically incorrect.

On a side note it seems the 4 tails was also able to merge elements.
When did he say that? Describe the chapter please.
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:52   Link #8
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When did he say that? Describe the chapter please.
chp 316 or maybe 317?
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:56   Link #9
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chp 316 or maybe 317?
You mean during Naruto's Fuuton-Rasengan training? Didn't he just say that mixing elements was LIKE a kekkei genkai? I don't see how that translates to unique DNA.
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Old 2007-05-23, 12:59   Link #10
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You mean during Naruto's Fuuton-Rasengan training? Didn't he just say that mixing elements was LIKE a kekkei genkai? I don't see how that translates to unique DNA.

I'm pretty sure he says that combining two elements is a kekkai genkai.
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Old 2007-05-23, 13:03   Link #11
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I'm pretty sure he says that combining two elements is a kekkai genkai.
*laughs* That's like every jounin that's worth a damn. Sigh, too many inconsistencies in this series lately.
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Old 2007-05-23, 14:00   Link #12
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*laughs* That's like every jounin that's worth a damn. Sigh, too many inconsistencies in this series lately.
So, do you take Mokuton as Kekkei Genkai or not?

Either way I do partially agree with you as I sort of find the whole deal a little bit of the wall or inconsistent to some point, Things such as quote like Shodaime was the only one capable of doing Mokuton, the word “recently” used by Jiriaya to decribe when Oro left Akatsuki, the idea of Kage Bushin sending the experience to the original, amongst other things just look as they changed because the author is contentiously improvising, but meh, in a long novel such as This, is really something that is going to happen now and then.


Yeah and I think the 4th tailed Jinchuriki mixed the elements also, given the word used, and given that only managing different elements shouldn’t be something unique as to have it in high regards, which makes me wonder if the power of a Bijou is sufficient enough to combine row different elements (as in Naruto doing it so).
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Old 2007-05-23, 15:15   Link #13
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*laughs* That's like every jounin that's worth a damn. Sigh, too many inconsistencies in this series lately.
iirc, it was combining two elements to make a new one that's a bloodline thing, not just being able to use jutsu of more than one element.

Of course, retconning the wood thing from "thing only the 1st could do" to "bloodline ability" raises the question of why Tsunade can't do it. Far as I know, she's now the only person who didn't inherit their family's bloodline ability...
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Old 2007-05-23, 15:43   Link #14
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iirc, it was combining two elements to make a new one that's a bloodline thing, not just being able to use jutsu of more than one element.

Of course, retconning the wood thing from "thing only the 1st could do" to "bloodline ability" raises the question of why Tsunade can't do it. Far as I know, she's now the only person who didn't inherit their family's bloodline ability...
I know that. And what's "iirc"?
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Old 2007-05-23, 15:52   Link #15
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I know that. And what's "iirc"?
If I Recall Correctly

Also, Nindaime didnt had Mokuton either been the Brother of Shodaime.
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Old 2007-05-23, 16:45   Link #16
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Ok....i know i got hit a few days back....in a duel playing soccer/football and all....i still have a big bump on my head but.....

Can you please post the chapter where the 4 tailed jinchuuriki used those techniques merging elements...

Besides...come to think of it. It is only a bloodline when you merge two elements (atleast) to create a new element right??

Because Sandaime mixed the Fire element and Earth element.
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Old 2007-05-23, 16:47   Link #17
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You mean during Naruto's Fuuton-Rasengan training? Didn't he just say that mixing elements was LIKE a kekkei genkai? I don't see how that translates to unique DNA.
[...]
*laughs* That's like every jounin that's worth a damn. Sigh, too many inconsistencies in this series lately.
No he said it was called a Kekkei Genkai and no every Jounin cannot do this.
What most Jounin can do is use 2 elements separately, what few can probably do is use the strength of different elements in succession like Kakuzu but using separate elements to create a new one requires a Bloodline or possibly the Yonbi.

Tsunade and Nidaime not being able to use Mokuton isn't illogical, the idea that Kekkai Genkai must be shared among all your families comes from the most used translation "bloodline" which technically isn't really correct since it implies strongly the principle of repetition through lineage.
A power obtained though one's particular genetic is a Kekkai Genkai regardless of its reproduction in the family.

edit : Mr. Johnny 5 it was chapter 353
Sandaime did that in anime filler but anyway he didn't mix these elements to create a new one, he merely used both of them.
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Old 2007-05-23, 16:50   Link #18
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I'll take it for facts when all that extra elaboration is stated in the manga.
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Old 2007-05-23, 16:53   Link #19
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The first paragraphe is stated chapter 316, the 2nd at the beginning of the manga during the first explanation about the Sharingan as a Kekkai Genkai.
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Old 2007-05-23, 16:53   Link #20
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I'll take it for facts when all that extra elaboration is stated in the manga.

All that extra elaboration in stated in the Manga.


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Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5 View Post
Ok....i know i got hit a few days back....in a duel playing soccer/football and all....i still have a big bump on my head but.....

Can you please post the chapter where the 4 tailed jinchuuriki used those techniques merging elements...
Kisame said so, but that's the question that came, Kisame, or the translator choice of word, made it look as if He was mixing elements, to create new ones.

Quote:
Besides...come to think of it. It is only a bloodline when you merge two elements (atleast) to create a new element right??
Yes, it was something along the line "it takes great power to mix two element together and create a new one, this is known as Keeki Genkai"

Bijous have great power, maybe thatís a start, either way, it could had meant the old geizer that had his own Kekei Genkai, but it would really be something to have a Keki Genkai that enables you to create different types of Elements.

Quote:
Because Sandaime mixed the Fire element and Earth element.
Thats Filler

Edit: Damm, Hunter, once again you beat me to it....
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