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Old 2007-05-31, 20:51   Link #1
Zu Ra
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[Manga] Wanting to be Human

We always felt hollows saw humans/souls as nothing but food source but as we go more into the psyche of Arrancars Hollows it may be different than our previous assumption. As any class of menos or hollows for that manner were humans and became what they are by force or natural process of chain decay . Somewhere in there mind all they do seek is for humanity

I mean we never want to look like our food source ? but they do . There strong hatred for anything human may be related to a complex. Somewhere deep down due to their appearance they do feel inferior to humanity and express it in rage/hatred. They do consider themselves superior beings but deep inside they are longing for humanity

There have been three instances where this happened

* Instance 1 : Chapter 191 Appearance of Yami & Ulqi

- “ They kept staring at me like a freak “

Yami is pissed off that humans stare at him as though he is an anomaly. Also he does feel humans are mocking his appearance in general. But humans cant see Arrancars to begin with . When he is reminded he retorts .

“ I know I know but I still don’t like it “


* Instance 2 : Chapter 267 Espada9’s Vanity

- Vanity or Complex

Other than the fact he hated his real appearance he did go through a lot of trouble to conceal his identity. Even after Rukia found out his true form he still morphed into Kaien . To be more detailed he sonido past Rukia just so that he could transform again . When Rukia stares in disbelief he answers

“ If its about my face We both long since grown tired of hearing opinion about this face “


* Instance 3 : Chapter 277 GJ’s revelation about Ulqi

- Placement of the stab hole

When GJ comes across an injured Ichi other than the fact he is pissed. He is sure its Ulqi due to the placement of stab hole. He reveals that Ulqi has an odd conscious / subconscious habit of stabbing people exactly where his hole is situated. Is this Ulqi way of expressing angst for being imperfect less humanoid? Is this a subconscious effort at making everyone like him so he won’t be an oddity no more? GJ’s exact words were

" This is a wound he would make. I don’t know if even he knows it or not, but when he finds prey that interests him he ends up opening a hole in him/her in the same spot as his ".

EDIT :

Quote:
CHAPTER 341 Ichigo's inner reflections on himself and Ulqi .

Quote:
“For me to be able to read your movements is either because I am similar to the hollow or you are similar to the humans.”
Note : This may be an over analysis but it leads to interesting speculation
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Last edited by Zu Ra; 2009-01-15 at 11:48.
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Old 2007-05-31, 21:03   Link #2
Lendial
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This is a pretty interesting idea. kt could potentialy use this to maybe turn some of the espada into good guys after theyve found their "humanity" GJ and ulqi are prime canidates.
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Old 2007-05-31, 22:51   Link #3
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I like the idea as well. Although a bit generic, it helps characterize the so-called evil side of the story as well as gives their attacks against the living a deeper meaning, rather than just destroying things out of their "monstrous" nature.
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Old 2007-06-01, 03:19   Link #4
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Wow, a theory that I won't shoot down. I like the idea alot Geta Boshi. GJ!
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Old 2007-06-01, 06:58   Link #5
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Well you ARE what you eat. Keep eating humans and you'll be a human?

Interesting theory though.
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Old 2007-06-01, 18:33   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I don't really think, that they want to become human.
Why should they care about their appearance, as long as they are powerful?
And their original shape, before becoming a hollow, was a human anyways, so if they really wanted to look human, I think they wouldn't become a hollow in the first place.
Did you.....did you read any of the first post?
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Old 2007-06-01, 23:01   Link #7
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@Geta Boshi: The title of 277 also supports the idea.

"Corrosion of Conformity"
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Old 2007-06-02, 01:45   Link #8
Zu Ra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by random_passerby View Post
@Geta Boshi: The title of 277 also supports the idea.

"Corrosion of Conformity"
Very well noted . Conformity if nothing but Behaviour or Beliefs being influenced by others conciously or subconsciously . The chapter elobrates to nothing but Corrosion/Decay of Ulqi's Beliefs in a way
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Old 2007-06-02, 02:32   Link #9
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Seems like someone watched Fullmetal Alchemist and looked up the Homoculous plotline.
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Old 2007-06-02, 02:54   Link #10
Zu Ra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epyon96 View Post
Seems like someone watched Fullmetal Alchemist and looked up the Homoculous plotline.
Sorry I beg to differ ….. this has absolutely nothing to do with FMA . Wanting to be Human is an old concept recycled/used in lot many mangas including Kazuya’s Saiyuki back in 90s even before FMA was conceived .

The earliest concept of Wanting to be Human to be used in popular be media / literature was by Asimov NOT by Hiromu Arakawa
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Old 2007-06-02, 03:02   Link #11
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I used that example since FMA was the most recent and arguably the most mainstream (since it held the timeslot that Gundam Seed and Destiny occupied).
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Old 2007-06-02, 03:15   Link #12
Zu Ra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epyon96 View Post
I used that example since FMA was the most recent and arguably the most mainstream (since it held the timeslot that Gundam Seed and Destiny occupied).
Its also a recurring theme in Astro Boy Mahoromatic Solty Rei and lot many more mangas . The concept is not unique to FMA

Wanting to be normal and accepted has also been used in Naruto . Konoha does look at Naruto as an embodiiment of Kyuubi Kitsune aka Bakemono than a kid or a human being
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Old 2007-06-02, 06:55   Link #13
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There's fiction with that concept outside of Japan as well.

*coughPinocchiocough*
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Old 2007-06-05, 07:10   Link #14
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i actually do agree with you on this one Geta. i do believe they are longing for a sense, or at least subconsciously desiring, a sense of humanity, after all their must be some element of that to their character as they are hollows that under went a process to become combine with 'death god' or 'humanity' etc.

but as you know partly what my suggestion was before, i do believe then, on some level, that some of the death god hate themselves. like ulq and that whole 'i will hit my prey where my hole is' thing.

it is actually rather sad, he is killing himself again and again, as if he doesn't value his life, but obviously he does because he makes a point of becoming strong and 'winning' in fights to continue to exist.

so yeah, like most animes, the villains are screwed up psychologically.

or one of the rules to write by: Evil men are just those who exist with a broken heart. All pain is rooted there.

^<
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Old 2007-06-05, 10:10   Link #15
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This was also mentioned in buso renkin, as homunculi devour humans as a way to regain the humanity that they loss by becoming homunculi. So this is a pretty interesting theory, one that I'm confident Kubo's going to use eventually. Perhaps even in this arc.
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Old 2007-12-14, 19:45   Link #16
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After reading recent chapters it seems that arrancar may have more human qualities than we give them credit for. One example would be #7 Espada Leroux who may have a sense of morality as he questions if the Shinigami have a right to deem hollows evil and kill them as if it were a natural thing. Another would be Neliel having a sense of honor (at least I think she does). Then you have Noitora and his sexist ways thinking males are better than females.

That's all I have.
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Old 2007-12-14, 21:06   Link #17
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I remember that Neliel once told Nnoitora when she was an espada that now that they have become arrancar they should behave more humanlike, since if they didn't, they would be nothing more than beasts.So Neliel too longed to be human.
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Old 2007-12-15, 01:46   Link #18
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Very interesting theory Geta, if hollows do want to become human it may explain why they would want to join Aizen, just speculation but they may be promised something like *proper human form???*, some kinda weird promise, it may be the motivation that Aizen has been malipulating, because so far weve seen Arrancar treating Aizen like some sort of saint, tell me if im going off topic, just that i thought that there may be some relavence there.
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Old 2007-12-15, 03:28   Link #19
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I will correct you. They are not longing for humanity (they once all were human to begin with) they are just MAYBE longing for human appearance which is different.
How is it different?
Humanity- humans-weak mortals - no powers - just nice appearance. If any of those arrancars wanted to be human, they would just accept soul burial and that's it. (or wait is it even possible to do soul burial on arrancars, Kubo never mentioned that.)
And about those quotes, I just think Kubo gave them those lines in order to give them more character...
And just look at that Dog captain, he is the same..Wearing that hat, hiding his beast face. Did he ever wanted to look human?
Well that is my opinion at least.
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Old 2007-12-15, 08:16   Link #20
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It occurs to me that as hollows grow in power and intelligence, they draw closer and closer to the human form. Even before any arrancarization, the Vasta Lorde are almost human looking. And the ultimate power-up is then to merge with a human race(shinigami). Perhaps to be of more human nature is a true sign of power, and that is why some arrancar are fascinated with their own humanity(in appearance and nature)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaseka View Post
I will correct you. They are not longing for humanity (they once all were human to begin with) they are just MAYBE longing for human appearance which is different.
How is it different?
Humanity- humans-weak mortals - no powers - just nice appearance. If any of those arrancars wanted to be human, they would just accept soul burial and that's it. (or wait is it even possible to do soul burial on arrancars, Kubo never mentioned that.)
I personally think Ulquiorra looks just awesome as he is . But on a serious note, WHY would they want a nice appearance? The first reason I can think of is the same one that humans want to look good..........so that they can be liked and admired. If the arrancar care about looking presentable, that would suggest they don't want to be viewed as monsters. So, that interpretation of your point takes us pretty much right back to where Geta started.
The other interpretation, is like I mentioned earlier, that more human appearance = higher status and power level of the arrancar/hollow. It might just be a status symbol to look like an elegant human (Ulquiorra) instead of a giant orc (Yammi).

I agree with you that whatever angst they might have about losing their humanity.............arrancar like having powers. Moreover, they would probably lose their identity and experiences as arrancar if they turned human. Survival is ingrained into the dog-eat-dog hollow existence, and I don't see them giving up everything to become human.

I still can't decide if that means humanity interests arrancar because of:
1) An indication of their power level and status.
2) The past: A recalling of who and what they were before they turned hollow
3) The growth of human emotions/conscience as they evolve into thinking beings, instead of instinctive beasts.
4) They don't give a damn after all.

I'd like interpretation number 3, personally, if only because it makes for deeper and more interesting characters.

However, Zomari's comments in his recent fight suggest a different line of thought.He thought of humans as little more than food for hollows. They weren't even worthy of being enemies or hated, but just sustenance. If that's the general attitude it shoots the whole "wanting to be human" theory in the foot. I can't imagine wanting to be the beef hamburger sitting on my plate, like geta mentions earlier. It might be that different arrancar simply have different views on the whole issue.

Note: Why it is that hollows draw closer to human form when they get more powerful is a whole other discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
After reading recent chapters it seems that arrancar may have more human qualities than we give them credit for. One example would be #7 Espada Leroux who may have a sense of morality as he questions if the Shinigami have a right to deem hollows evil and kill them as if it were a natural thing. Another would be Neliel having a sense of honor (at least I think she does). Then you have Noitora and his sexist ways thinking males are better than females.
That's all I have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kankel View Post
I remember that Neliel once told Nnoitora when she was an espada that now that they have become arrancar they should behave more humanlike, since if they didn't, they would be nothing more than beasts.So Neliel too longed to be human.
If we say that arrancar have traits like sexism, honour, compassion, etc..........does that really mean the same as being more human? After all, even angels and demons(and all sentient beings) could have those qualities. Not that it makes much difference to the reader, but its all part of the way they view themselves. Zomari may have his own form of honour, but he certainly would not consider himself human just because of that. Similarly, Grimmjow may have very human-like pride. But that pride might mean that he considers himself as something better and different from human.

Last edited by Amirali; 2007-12-15 at 08:36.
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