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View Poll Results: Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 13 15.85%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 35.37%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 20 24.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 12.20%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 7.32%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.44%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.22%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.22%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-06-01, 10:17   Link #1021
Darco_emp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Why bother? She can just use Lightning spells outside the AMF radius.
If is this key here. Heck I doubt the Drones even can keep up with normal Impluse mode Fate, allowing her to always be outside of AMF...

However I do see it as a possilbe option if it occurs
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Old 2007-06-01, 10:24   Link #1022
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
I can only see Fate uses something simlar to Teana's bullets on Bardiche Zamber if she is to use Zamber form in an AMF. since I assume the magical energy will be defused just like what happened to Erio.
But Fate is on a different caliber than Erio

As long as she destroys the drones fast enough, the AMF won't be much as a threat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
I think magically 'dense' is the word your looking for.

By myself, I'm not too confident that it would hold for more than a minute. But Fate would be swinging it around quickly anyway.
Dense it is then

But why a minute? Fate doesn't stay in one position for long, and her drone targets doesn't stay in one piece for long

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
The damage from lightning though can be reduced, or even nullified with nothing more than a little electrical know-how to reroute the path of the electrical current. While effective, Fate better have something else planned just in case, or she'll be smacking around Bardiche the hard way
Another one of Chrono's lesson...

"It's always better to play it safe "
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Old 2007-06-01, 10:31   Link #1023
Aaron008R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Dense it is then

But why a minute? Fate doesn't stay in one position for long, and her drone targets doesn't stay in one piece for long
Exactly. By a stationary position. Who knows? she might get retrained and trapped on all sides by AMF drones. Of course I wouldn't want that to happen, but I was considering the possibilities.

Quote:
Another one of Chrono's lesson...

"It's always better to play it safe "
Insurance.
Last Will and Testament.
Like this? I'm referencing on one of your scenario's of Chrono's examination on becoming an Admiral; which is applying the limiter on Hayate.

Come to think of it, we never got to know how he actually did it. But I doubt he'd like to relive the experience.
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Old 2007-06-01, 10:39   Link #1024
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Returning to control of the amount of magical and physical damage a spell does I've come up with a broader question - to what extent a mage has control over shapes and effect of his magic? In S1 it seemed like each mage/device had their own unique set of spells and some basic ones like shields and sealing, in S2 a device is introduced which allowed the usage of a bigger variety of spells which had to be collected beforehand and in S3 we see several examples of mages copying others' spells, so how far can it go actually? How strong is the connection between a mage, device and casted spells and how well can spells be imitated? Are there different grades of spells, like "strongly linked to the person/device, unable to imitate -> hard to imitate, but you can pull off something similar if you try -> imitation by a skilled mage is as potent as the original -> common spells used by everyone"?
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Old 2007-06-01, 10:47   Link #1025
Aaron008R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Returning to control of the amount of magical and physical damage a spell does I've come up with a broader question - to what extent a mage has control over shapes and effect of his magic? In S1 it seemed like each mage/device had their own unique set of spells and some basic ones like shields and sealing, in S2 a device is introduced which allowed the usage of a bigger variety of spells which had to be collected beforehand and in S3 we see several examples of mages copying others' spells, so how far can it go actually? How strong is the connection between a mage, device and casted spells and how well can spells be imitated? Are there different grades of spells, like "strongly linked to the person/device, unable to imitate -> hard to imitate, but you can pull off something similar if you try -> imitation by a skilled mage is as potent as the original -> common spells used by everyone"?
The simplest answer I could give you is that it depends on the factors involved.
Mages have varied inert specializations and power levels.
Devices are generally used to make a mage stronger. Other details not considered.
Spells are definitely varied in class. Some can be easily used by anyone like simple binds and shields, while some are unique to the kind of specialization a mage has.
And yes. Spells are all graded individually. The rankings are attack power, speed, control, range, extra-effects, etc. This is mainly shown in the manga.
And about the connections, power for spells are mostly taken from one's own Linker Core. But there are instances external energy sources like leftover magical particles or the Jewel Seeds can be used as a power source.
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Old 2007-06-01, 10:53   Link #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Returning to control of the amount of magical and physical damage a spell does I've come up with a broader question - to what extent a mage has control over shapes and effect of his magic?
It's all about the skill.

Quote:
- In S1 it seemed like each mage/device had their own unique set of spells and some basic ones like shields and sealing,

- in S2 a device is introduced which allowed the usage of a bigger variety of spells which had to be collected beforehand and

- in S3 we see several examples of mages copying others' spells, so how far can it go actually?
Quote:
How strong is the connection between a mage, device and casted spells and how well can spells be imitated? Are there different grades of spells, like "strongly linked to the person/device, unable to imitate -> hard to imitate, but you can pull off something similar if you try -> imitation by a skilled mage is as potent as the original -> common spells used by everyone"?
It's Like martial arts. Even though there's a general and standard way of learning it, everyone has their own style - What moves they prefer to use, what suits them better and such.

Definately there are different levels of spells, each with it's own difficulty.

And yes, they can be learnt, but sometimes (If not most of the time) certain conditions must be met.

For example, Nanoha's "Starlight Breaker", not anybody can 'control' (If you could call it that ) a spell with that kind of power.

And a Mage and his/her device don't really have some kind of 'magical' bond between them. Of course, this is debatable when you're talking about an intelligence device...

EDIT:

Sleep time...

Please don't make me read 4 pages worth of text when I wake up tomorrow
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Old 2007-06-01, 11:00   Link #1027
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Damn, why did discussions had to blow 1k just when I thought it was kinda uneventful hours earlier and decided to like...actually study and do homework?

For one, we can never 100% gauge how large is the gap between non-devices with SD users or IDs, especially when we factor in insentient and sentient factors. Teana and Subaru can't count much since their original devices were pretty much junk, and we have to take into account the general perception and role applied in the magical equative execution.
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Old 2007-06-01, 11:01   Link #1028
An Hero in Disguise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post
The simplest answer I could give you is that it depends on the factors involved.
Mages have varied inert specializations and power levels.
Devices are generally used to make a mage stronger. Other details not considered.
Spells are definitely varied in class. Some can be easily used by anyone like simple binds and shields, while some are unique to the kind of specialization a mage has.
And yes. Spells are all graded individually. The rankings are attack power, speed, control, range, extra-effects, etc. This is mainly shown in the manga.
And about the connections, power for spells are mostly taken from one's own Linker Core. But there are instances external energy sources like leftover magical particles or the Jewel Seeds can be used as a power source.
Yeah, spells are graded based on their effect and power, what I'm interested in is if some gradation of spells' uniqueness to the caster/device exists (and it certainly exists but is somewhat unclear) and if each mage creates his own spells (at least several) from scratch or there's some great list of spells and you can only be personally suited to use particular ones, hence the difference in mages' classes?
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Old 2007-06-01, 11:04   Link #1029
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yeah, spells are graded based on their effect and power, what I'm interested in is if some gradation of spells' uniqueness to the caster/device exists (and it certainly exists but is somewhat unclear) and if each mage creates his own spells (at least several) from scratch or there's some great list of spells and you can only be personally suited to use particular ones, hence the difference in mages' classes?
I remember the Nen-equation myself and...Erio? used in the tech thread. I think in general, it's safe to assume that while top mages in general can be very well-versed all around, their latent talent is probably more so leans to something particular to them.
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Old 2007-06-01, 11:06   Link #1030
Aaron008R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yeah, spells are graded based on their effect and power, what I'm interested in is if some gradation of spells' uniqueness to the caster/device exists (and it certainly exists but is somewhat unclear) and if each mage creates his own spells (at least several) from scratch or there's some great list of spells and you can only be personally suited to use particular ones, hence the difference in mages' classes?
If uniqueness is the subject, then Nanoha is pretty much one of the best examples.
Fate got trained by Linith.
Chrono and pretty much everyone else in TSAB learned by the books.
But I can't really be sure because they don't really say it when a spell is just created by the mage.

Of course, there are always the device-exclusive spells like Eternal Coffin and the likes.


EDIT: Ugh. I'm beat. Signing off...
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Last edited by Aaron008R; 2007-06-01 at 11:17.
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Old 2007-06-01, 12:36   Link #1031
Icarus
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Christ, where did these new posts come from?
Must be the anticipation of this forthcoming episode.

RE: Limiters released at season midpoint?
Possibly.
Posted on 4chan:
Spoiler for don't even consider clicking this if you don't want to be spoiled:


RE: Magic usage and Devices
From what I understand, most Devices act as a storage medium for a mage's "programs" (the spells) as well as acting as a catalyst for using those spells - think of it as a mobile phone that stores phone numbers as well as providing a system to access and use those numbers (for want of a better analogy). That's why they're called Devices and not "magic staves".

As for this question, I would expect magic in the Nanohaverse to be similar to magic in RPGs: magic classified by type (healing, enhancement, offensive, defensive) and affinity (elemental/physical/energy etc, think Fate's lightning-type spells, for example). You can mix and match any amount of types and affinities to create different spells. Depending on your affinity, you could be able to learn spells of a similar type and nature, which is why we saw Nanoha using Cross Shift, as both Teana's and Nanoha's own spell affinity is roughly identical (ranged energy bombardment-class).

One thing that makes Ancient Velka possibly the most powerful of the magical classes is the ability to use every spell affinity available. In Hayate's case, she uses a special mass storage medium to hold her spells (Tome of the Night Sky), and as long as she recites the spell-command fully, she can use any spell available. The same goes for Reinforce I using Starlight Breaker in A's. (Notice how compared to Modern Velka/Midchilda casting, Ancient Velka has the appearance of requiring the complete spellchant.)

(Someone really needs to hack Final Fantasy X/X-2 and replace the character models for Yuna, Rikku and Lulu/Paine with Nanoha, Fate and Hayate...)

Last edited by Icarus; 2007-06-01 at 13:00.
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Old 2007-06-01, 12:53   Link #1032
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Cool!But the episode name of 11 did't seems to fit the description.


i wonder if Elio will ever get captured sometime in the series?i hope the they dont make the doctor mention he wants the remmants of Project F for nothing.
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Old 2007-06-01, 12:55   Link #1033
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ARGH I missed all the tech debate that broke 1k!!! Noooooooooooooo...!!!

Too tired to answer, but generally my points were all mentioned by different posters in the last four pages, so that's my verdict. I'll go repost the literature review in the tech thread if you guys want, but after my exams plz...

And yes Darco, be very surprised. I'm going to sleep...
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Old 2007-06-01, 13:05   Link #1034
Erio
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What's up the all these spoilers, anyway? And they go 3 or more episodes into the future! (No, I have not read a single one of them)

Without spoiling anything, where are they coming from? Was the info leaked?
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Old 2007-06-01, 13:10   Link #1035
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im not totally sure about their creditbility.Pity the subs are slightly behind.
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Old 2007-06-01, 13:11   Link #1036
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Originally Posted by Erio View Post
Without spoiling anything, where are they coming from? Was the info leaked?
Some magazines in Japan give out small summaries of anime episodes, including future ones.
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Old 2007-06-01, 13:17   Link #1037
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Some magazines in Japan give out small summaries of anime episodes, including future ones.
I guess this is why we need a "Spoilers and Speculation Discussion" thread. Or something similar.
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Old 2007-06-01, 13:53   Link #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
i dont think it really matters as to what shape those magic attacks are cause flying at the speed they are doing its shape is going to be distorted anyway to give an aerodynamic "spear head" ~ why do you suppose vita's metal balls are round and not bullet shaped for more damage?
It matters for one simple reason.
If take a needle you can pierce a piece of paper.
If you take a hammer, how much more force do you need to pierce that piece of paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
And Vita's balls are round because of Vita's style: She needs to be able to launch multiple balls at a single swing. Having a bullet-shaped projectile would require her to smack each projectile individually, one at a time, for maximum projectile energy, slowing her down in the process.
She's technically doing the imposible as is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco_emp View Post
The sword could have other properties to offset it being c ompletely harmless physically. Remember one of the 10 forms of Rave? I guess it can be used as something like that....
Well it doesn't necessarily mean if you have a magic sword you'll use that magic to create damage. You could use it to imbue your sword with flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
The damage from lightning though can be reduced, or even nullified with nothing more than a little electrical know-how to reroute the path of the electrical current. While effective, Fate better have something else planned just in case, or she'll be smacking around Bardiche the hard way
This is anime lightning, it's like with radiation.
Normal radiation kills life, fictional radiation creates it. *lol*

If I was Fate I would bet on hitting those things from multiple angles simultaneously, since they don't seem to have 180 AMF. They also seem to work with magic so I guess that's a reason to believe they don't have 180 AMF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yeah, spells are graded based on their effect and power, what I'm interested in is if some gradation of spells' uniqueness to the caster/device exists (and it certainly exists but is somewhat unclear) and if each mage creates his own spells (at least several) from scratch or there's some great list of spells and you can only be personally suited to use particular ones, hence the difference in mages' classes?
They probably can mimick to some extent.

----
Regarding Magic Dmg Vs. Physical Dmg

Magic Dmg hurts their magic core thing, and we know how totally drained and helpless they end up when that happens.
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Old 2007-06-01, 18:25   Link #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Damn, why did discussions had to blow 1k just when I thought it was kinda uneventful hours earlier and decided to like...actually study and do homework?
Ah, that would be my fault...

Quote:
Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise View Post
Yeah, spells are graded based on their effect and power, what I'm interested in is if some gradation of spells' uniqueness to the caster/device exists (and it certainly exists but is somewhat unclear) and if each mage creates his own spells (at least several) from scratch or there's some great list of spells and you can only be personally suited to use particular ones, hence the difference in mages' classes?
Skill is really the keyword

If you're experience and good enough, you definately could create something that suits your own taste.

Otherwise, just stick to the herd and learn the stadnard ones.

And yes again, depending on what you're good at, there are certain spells that suit you better than others. Certain spell that you would rather use than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha View Post
ARGH I missed all the tech debate that broke 1k!!! Noooooooooooooo...!!!
Well you see, it all started when I made a simple suggestion...
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Old 2007-06-01, 18:26   Link #1040
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
It matters for one simple reason.
If take a needle you can pierce a piece of paper.
If you take a hammer, how much more force do you need to pierce that piece of paper.



She's technically doing the imposible as is.
Perhaps, but technically she shouldn't be able to fly either. How far are we willing to mix realism with a show about magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
----
Regarding Magic Dmg Vs. Physical Dmg

Magic Dmg hurts their magic core thing, and we know how totally drained and helpless they end up when that happens.
The only time the Linker Core was affected in battle was when they were drained by Yami no Sho. Beyond that, magic damage seems to mean direct physical damage. What's stopping the magical damage is the barrier jacket.
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