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View Poll Results: sola - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 28 36.36%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 33.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 19.48%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 9.09%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.30%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-06-05, 06:26   Link #81
Sorrow-K
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Ah, finally, background. I dug the fact that we finally learnt something about these characters that had some weight to it, and also that they managed to infuse some interesting turns (not "twists"... I'm choosing my words carefully) into the plot that set up some enticing confrontations, largely thanks to the way the characters were situated (eg, Mayuko finding herself on the tram just as Takeshi turns up). The problem: the confrontations themselves consisted of some terribly mediocre action sequences (most of my complaints about them have already been aired by other people), and the resolution at the end was a cop out ("oh no, Takeshi, I don't want you to kill anyone, I just wanted to be with you... I didn't realize all this time that you wanted to kill someone for my gain, I thought we were just hunting her for sport.")

One can only assume from this that the Takeshi-Mayuko chapter has come to a close, but there's still a decent amount of unanswered questions. At best, we can assume that the "who killed her" question may be beside the point, but the "who brought her back to life" question is relevant no matter how I look at it, so I'd be incredibly disappointed if they skimped over that. But the fact that the "who killed her" question and "who brought her back to life" question may well be related would make it even worse if they just assumed we didn't care. More important are the "why" questions. Why did whoever choose Mayuko to come back to life? Why was Takeshi under the impression that the only way to cure a Yaka was to kill another Yaka? And, yeah, I think that's a total red herring, since if it were the case, I'd imagine there'd be a far more prominent Yaka Holy Grail War.

Why is Matsuri perfect? I can't sympathize with a flawless character... they're far too removed from anything realistic or reasonable to relate to. Oh well, I suppose it'd be worse still if she were invulnerable... oh wait...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Spoiler for episode 9:
Yeah, this is the million dollar question, isn't it? The way I see it, it's either a red herring or poor story-telling. If it's a red herring, bravo, they can blow it away with a well executed plot twist in later episodes. But that seems odd, since the Takeshi-Mayuko arc seems to be, for all intents and purposes, done, and I can't see any obvious reason why either of these two characters will interact with the main set of characters again, or why such a plot twist will have any impact on them, since Takeshi is no longer interested in killing Yaka. Hmmm... maybe if Takeshi was told this by one of the major characters in the show and it turned out to be a life-threatening lie in some way, it could spark a reason for him to get revenge. If it's a detail that they've just assumed that the audience will pick up and accept with no questions asked, it's poor story-telling.
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Amazing ep. Wonderful wonderful episode. Sola just managed to climb to number 2 on my personal list of this season's animes
What's number 1, Claymore or Hayate? Where's Seirei no Moribito on that list? I ask, since it seems to be incredibly under-appreciated outside the loyal few that bother to watch it, considering what it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telliamed View Post
I really wish I had just skipped the first five minutes of this episode. The fight seemed fake and pointless. No tension at all, something that wasn't lacking in Matsuri's encounters with Takeshi. And could someone please introduce the writers to a little thing called "continuity"? (Episode 8: Matsuri walks outside of the train shed and sees Aono standing on the roof. Episode 9: They're inside the shed and Aono is on top of a train car.)

I'm thinking all that time in the hospital, stuck in a bed and staying awake at night... Aono watched a bit too much Aono. We first see her imitating Nagato Yuki. Then Yomiko Readman. And at the end of the fight, it's Kawasumi Mai.

The emotional highlight for me this week was, in fact, Sae taking an umbrella to Takeshi. What a surprise, considering how much I hated her voice at first. I really like her now. She scored quite a few moe-points for calling Matsuri "Yaka-san".
I can't say I disagree with any of this. Yes, the action isn't the point, or even the mechanics of the existence of the Yaka. Still no excuse for them to be so incredibly inconsistent about it. As far as I'm concerned, emotional impact is muted unless the story-telling is at a quality to match it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Tsk, tsk ,tsk. All these gloom and doom predictions when this is not a crying game imo.

Spoiler for ending speculation:
Ah, did you write the My-HiME ending? Just checking.

Overall: one of the better eps in this series, but I'm still adverse to call this "good". Just too many flaws in this show (of various magnitude).
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Old 2007-06-05, 07:18   Link #82
Owaranai Destiny
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Gee, if only they could explain everything so quickly that seems to be missing from Sorrow-K's analysis, that would be great.

I'm not saying that isn't possible, but three episodes seem to be cutting it a bit close, unless those explanations are that much of a sale, which I most certainly wouldn't mind. I don't really care much for the action, though. It's simply a secondary piece of entertainment for me in sola. What really interests me is the backstory, and also the development of characters along the way.
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Old 2007-06-05, 08:04   Link #83
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maybe i there other yaka other than mayuko matsuri and Aono.. since Mayuko does not seem to have met matsuri and Aono b4 and Mayuko mention an onee san say i die and become yaka.. maybe that mysterious yaka gona appear sooner or later
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Old 2007-06-05, 09:43   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Icerack View Post
Then who would Matsuri sacrifice to revive Aono? Unless Matsuri does not need sacrifice to revive others. And if Mayuko was the sacrifice, then what happened to the rest of her family? Was it really just a random attack or were they targeted? From the way things are looking, Mayuko doesn't care about being human anymore.. so if she does get to become human, it'd probably be the end of the series where they find the cure for Yaka.
I think that you did not understand what I said. Resurrecting someone who is long dead would be a lot different from reviving someone who just died. However, after watching the fansub and seeing that Mayuko did not recognise Aono either, I think it likely that she was killed in a robbery and then revived by a third Yaka.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomMS View Post
maybe i there other yaka other than mayuko matsuri and Aono.. since Mayuko does not seem to have met matsuri and Aono b4 and Mayuko mention an onee san say i die and become yaka.. maybe that mysterious yaka gona appear sooner or later
Maybe she has, indirectly at least, as the owner of that doll shop. Creepy shop, dark inside, owner sleeps all day.
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Old 2007-06-05, 10:05   Link #85
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
...Why is Matsuri perfect? I can't sympathize with a flawless character... they're far too removed from anything realistic or reasonable to relate to....
I don't find Matsuri perfect. She herself admits she went against her promise. She seems slippery and uncertain to me. And why did she go against Aono's wishes and revive her long ago? I'm not sure there are too many more facts to come out, but I find Matsuri a very imperfect, "human" character, melancholy and in constant doubt. That's part of why I like her so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
...What's number 1, Claymore or Hayate? Where's Seirei no Moribito on that list? I ask, since it seems to be incredibly under-appreciated outside the loyal few that bother to watch it, considering what it is.
Hitohira? Lol. I know I have very different taste from a lot of people, and high tolerance for melodrama, but I really like Hitohira, Touka Gettan, and even Emily of New Moon (it's only sappy if you resist the human emotions). And of course the excellent Seirei no Moribito, which has characters, plot, action, setting, etc., etc. Its only fault is its stately pace, if that's a fault. I enjoy Lucky Star more than Hayate -- it's much more unusual -- and Claymore has atmosphere and wonderful voice-acting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
...I can't say I disagree with any of this. Yes, the action isn't the point, or even the mechanics of the existence of the Yaka. Still no excuse for them to be so incredibly inconsistent about it. As far as I'm concerned, emotional impact is muted unless the story-telling is at a quality to match it.... Overall: one of the better eps in this series, but I'm still averse to calling this "good". Just too many flaws in this show (of various magnitude).
You make sense, as always, even if I think you are still demanding that everything be explained before it happens. We have more to learn that may make some of these apparent inconsistencies evaporate. But "faults" are not the point, for me. Strengths are the point. Carefully planned shows that avoid faults sometimes fall into the bigger trap of being mechanical and colorless. But I am definitely one that seeks emotions (of a certain kind) above all, and thinks plot is just a means for getting there.
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Old 2007-06-05, 10:23   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
He was suggesting Aono sacrificed Mayuko to bring back Yorito as a human.
Matsuri turned Aono into a yaka ~ I don't think that's exactly reviving.
Considering with what we have to play with, we really can't form a concrete answer to the question everyone seems to be asking. Of course, I have my doubts as to Aono sacrificing, let alone being the one killing, Mayuko. It was said a robber killed the entire family, so it was suggested that something was stolen. Another thing that casts doubt in me was that Mayuko didn't outright say who it was that revived her. For all we know, it could have been Aono, of course she seemed to easily accept Matsuri.

From what I'm speculating due to what's been laid out so far, a Yaka is born of woes. Takeshi was in total despair that he was screaming and sobbing like a maniac. That could be the very reason she was revived. It may be the only reason this mysterious female that talked to her was simply there to inform her about what happened. Maybe like a magnet, being pulled to the scene.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedzombie View Post
quick question:

Spoiler:
No one could really tell you. We're all just throwing out speculations, but that's a definate question to speculate. From what I can tell, Aono could be trying to locate and/or recall him, causing him to break down like that.
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Old 2007-06-05, 11:00   Link #87
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Another solid episode of Sola, but there were some things that bothered me. First thing - continuity issue at the very start of the ep. Can Aono teleport now as well ? What the heck was that inner child all about ? 0_o

Judging from her later performance, Matsuri seems to be holding back a hell of a lot of her power against Aono. She even seemed to be fine with the fact that she is going to be killed. Either there is more to this, or Matsuri needs to get a grip of her emotions and stand up for herself.

Yorito's VA ... you know, this is the first time i am going to complain about voice acting, but this was borderline terrible. Seriously ... the guy does just fine in "normal" speech (then again - what human wouldn't ), but when it comes to displaying emotions, i simply want to turn down the volume.

Takashi / Matsuri fight ... as always, well done and doesn't lack tension. But damn - has Matsuri gotten stronger ? If this is the power she has while heavily injured, why didn't she simply rip Takashi's head off in the 1st ep ? (aside from the fact that she seems a pacifistic creature).

Takashi ... ok, lets ignore the fact that he suddenly seems capable of the same speed as Matsuri and/or has taken teleportation lessons from Aono. Where did he pull that sword out from ? 0_o A sword that isn't affected by Yaka powers, and his conviction that killing a Yaka can turn rozen-loli back to normal ... where do they come from? It better not be from thin air >.< ... are we going to have an evil, mysterious man introduced who manipulates Takashi for his own selfish goals ?

Mayuko stopping Takashi ... while it seems like she could have told him that long ago, i think it has to do with the fact that she had gotten to know Matsuri. Either that, or Takashi really hadn't been telling her what is he up to. (seems somewhat unlikely, considering how close they seem).

Mana keeps gathering points for herself. This is a friend you would kill to have. Out of the whole cast, she is the one most concerned about Yorito, and willing to lend her help unconditionally. Her conversation with Aono at the door earns her more points.

Yorito ... what caused his sudden headache? Aono's direct doing? Aftereffects of the midraping? *crackshot incoming* - perhaps he is starting to regain his memories ?

Matsuri woke up just in time to hear Mayuko's wish ... perhaps this will finally cause her to shape up and put a food down in front of Aono. Speaking of Matsuri ... damn, the poor girl needs something good happen to her ... else i will chew on some one's head

So, Takashi / Mayuko story seems to be over ... or is it. They still could play a role in the story, but i wouldn't bet on that. (What i would pay for a hunting session of Aono *dreams* ).

Giving this ep an 8.
Despite some flaws this show has, Sola remains as my no1 pick of the season. Eagerly looking towards the next episode.
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Old 2007-06-05, 11:36   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Which she stopped. If she can stop herself from killing Matsuri (whom she perceives to be a threat), why would she murder an innocent? If anything, her behaviour towards Matsuri in this episode SUPPORTS the idea that she is NOT the murdering type.

Trying to murder and ACTUALLY murdering are two entirely different things.

Cheers.
She only stopped because she saw Matsuri's expression and it stirred something in her. If Matsuri hadn't been as adept in defending herself, Aono certainly would have murdered her. I agree that succeeding at murder is something different, but the attempt itself is pretty doggone horrible, and the ONLY difference between the two aside from the after-effects is chance. Attempted murder is still a crime. Aono merely proved she couldn't go through when she had to look at Aono's Matsuri's face.

I don't pin that on her lightly. I really, REALLY want to like her, but it's kind of hard to dismiss this.

On to other things:

- Takeshi's gift-rabbit looks weird much like Yorito's stuffed animal purchases. I'd figured it was from years of wear and repair, but no, it looked like that new. Any link (even casual) to Yorito's crazy stuffed animal shop?
- I have zero problem with Matsuri's fighting displays escalating. All this time she's been trying to ESCAPE fighting. The more she's backed into a corner (figuratively), the more she's forced to actually fight.
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Old 2007-06-05, 15:38   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Another solid episode of Sola, but there were some things that bothered me. First thing - continuity issue at the very start of the ep. Can Aono teleport now as well ? What the heck was that inner child all about ? 0_o
Probably something along the lines of shown intention (the intention to kill Matsuri) vs. actual intent (something in her stopping that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Judging from her later performance, Matsuri seems to be holding back a hell of a lot of her power against Aono. She even seemed to be fine with the fact that she is going to be killed. Either there is more to this, or Matsuri needs to get a grip of her emotions and stand up for herself.
She wasn't willing to fight, since Matsuri felt that she deserved to die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Where did he pull that sword out from ? 0_o A sword that isn't affected by Yaka powers, and his conviction that killing a Yaka can turn rozen-loli back to normal ... where do they come from? It better not be from thin air >.< ... are we going to have an evil, mysterious man introduced who manipulates Takashi for his own selfish goals ?
I think it's the same sword like the one he used in the previous episodes, it is only that we never actually see the true extent of what it does. That, combined with beliefs...you get the idea.
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Old 2007-06-05, 17:12   Link #90
Darklightz
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This episode had some high points and low points

On the high,I'm very surprised and pleased that a romantic anime took time to make good fight scenes.I"m also glad we finally see Mayuko's story,although like Skyfall I'd like to know how killing Matsuri is supposed to help Mayuko.Also more hints into Aono and Matsuri's first meeting in the cave

Some low points. I was very annoyed when Mana found a piece of paper and went "ZOMG!This must belong to Aono because no one else has paper or does origami in all Japan!" I realize they need to cut a few scenes to fit the ending but this is too much.
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Old 2007-06-05, 17:50   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Phantom-Takaya View Post
No one could really tell you. We're all just throwing out speculations, but that's a definate question to speculate. From what I can tell, Aono could be trying to locate and/or recall him, causing him to break down like that.
You're forgetting that he was screaming/throwing fits while Aono was with him in the bedroom.

My speculation is that the original Yorito never died but had his memories sealed away. His memories are probably trying to break free, causing him headaches and periods of black outs. By black outs, I mean times where he just looks like he's in another world and not able to recognize anything that's happening in the actual world.

As for this episode, the basic setup was enjoyable. However, I sometimes get an impression of a child molester when it comes to Takeshi.
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Old 2007-06-05, 18:38   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Kyuusai View Post
She only stopped because she saw Matsuri's expression and it stirred something in her. If Matsuri hadn't been as adept in defending herself, Aono certainly would have murdered her.
The point is, she stopped. All the if's and but's are delicious candy and nuts at this juncture of this very enjoyable series.
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Old 2007-06-05, 18:43   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthere! View Post
You're forgetting that he was screaming/throwing fits while Aono was with him in the bedroom.

My speculation is that the original Yorito never died but had his memories sealed away. His memories are probably trying to break free, causing him headaches and periods of black outs. By black outs, I mean times where he just looks like he's in another world and not able to recognize anything that's happening in the actual world.

As for this episode, the basic setup was enjoyable. However, I sometimes get an impression of a child molester when it comes to Takeshi.
fits which he wasnt having before aono found out that he was with matsuri you mean? im positive that those mind trauma's and headaches are caused my aono trying to force yorito into forgetting about matsuri which isnt working the slightest (hes got a really deep connection with matsuri) ~ and im pretty sure that he died back in the flashback...otherwise he should be old! (being still human...)

and what a mean thing to say to takeshi? i like the guy (and well you cant really call him a lolicon when he fell in love with mayuko around the same age as her )
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Old 2007-06-05, 18:50   Link #94
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
You make sense, as always, even if I think you are still demanding that everything be explained before it happens. We have more to learn that may make some of these apparent inconsistencies evaporate. But "faults" are not the point, for me. Strengths are the point. Carefully planned shows that avoid faults sometimes fall into the bigger trap of being mechanical and colorless. But I am definitely one that seeks emotions (of a certain kind) above all, and thinks plot is just a means for getting there.
Maybe so, but I think the anime that are worthy of the most acclaim are the ones that have significant emotional impact, but still have very little flaws, and a tight, well-written story. Mushishi fits into that category. Hell, didn't we all watch a certain Daichi Akitaro directed shoujo romance/drama last year that did just that? Even Kanon, with the exception of its final episode, had very few overly-convenient plot devices and inconsistencies, and it managed to deliver a hell of an emotional punch.

The flaws in this are small, but numerous, and they all add up, in my eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklightz View Post
Some low points. I was very annoyed when Mana found a piece of paper and went "ZOMG!This must belong to Aono because no one else has paper or does origami in all Japan!" I realize they need to cut a few scenes to fit the ending but this is too much.
Yeah, this is another thing I wanted to mention, but it slipped my mind. It is, undoubtedly, difficult to swallow, but it is only minor. The problem is that there have been so many of these 'only minor' conveniences that make them harder and harder to forgive with each new one.

And yes, there is still a chance that my concerns will be addressed in later episodes, but I get more and more pessimistic with each passing episode. I hope it doesn't turn out to be the case, but at this stage, it just looks to me that the final script wasn't up to par with the original intentions of writers, and they're failing to make the emotional impact with this show that they intended on from the beginning.
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Old 2007-06-05, 20:49   Link #95
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
Ah, did you write the My-HiME ending? Just checking.

Hey, I can get even more warped...

Spoiler for ending speculation My-Hime version:
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Old 2007-06-05, 21:07   Link #96
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I think that you did not understand what I said. Resurrecting someone who is long dead would be a lot different from reviving someone who just died. However, after watching the fansub and seeing that Mayuko did not recognise Aono either, I think it likely that she was killed in a robbery and then revived by a third Yaka.
Misunderstood. Point taken.

I guess also missed the fact that she didn't seem to recognize Aono neither at the bus station. So there's a possibility that a 3rd Yaka exists, unless I was misled to thinking that she didn't recognize Matsuri (which isn't quite clear at the moment).
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Old 2007-06-05, 21:33   Link #97
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Great episode.

I liked the first part, I though they moved to talk or something, but I dont know, maybe it was a director's mistake. I was too busy watching the... GATE OF ORIGAMILON (Do you have enough paper, lord of the Yakas?)

Then, stuff happens and Mana proves to be the only real ally fof the "truth" of whatever is happening (or maybe I should say the only supporter of discovering it). Interesting enough, I like Mana, she cares about Yorito and what he likes, his needs, etc. I hope that doesnt turn bad.

Then again, stuff happens and WOW, GAR Takeshi. Why are you all complaining about his speed, OF COURSE HE CAN DO THAT, HE'S GAR! :P.
Now now, about that scene, I dont think it was a mistake or something like that, It seemed to me that in the state Matsuri was the flashbags stunned her for some time, and when she was able to open her eyes, the GAR men slashed her.
Past Takesh- ejem Tsujidou was kinda cool too, and I enjoyed the scene with the intro song too.

Very good episode indeed. I dont want to think too much about the ending, I have the bad feeling that its going to be something cliché so I wont discuss the matter xD.
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Old 2007-06-06, 01:57   Link #98
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I noticed a subtlety at the end of Aono's fight. When she stopped, she was remembering the moment just after she became a yaka. In the previous flashback, we saw how pissed she was, and I think a lot of us have been considering her to still bear a grudge against Matsuri for this.

But if that's the case, if she still hates Matsuri for making her a yaka, then why does she recall that moment with sympathy?

I also have a suspicion that Matsuri wasn't being cruel to Aono for making her a yaka. That it was actually a very generous thing to do. It also kinda explains why Matsuri so easily agreed to leave.

I'll explain when it becomes apparent whether or not I'm right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomMS View Post
maybe i there other yaka other than mayuko matsuri and Aono.... maybe that mysterious yaka gona appear sooner or later
*cough*deusexmachina*cough*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuusai View Post
- Takeshi's gift-rabbit looks weird much like Yorito's stuffed animal purchases. I'd figured it was from years of wear and repair, but no, it looked like that new. Any link (even casual) to Yorito's crazy stuffed animal shop?
hmm... I can't recall if I noticed, but are they in Nagasaki for that flashback? I have a feeling it may not be, because they get on a train soon after. Though later in the snow, that could be them returning "home".

Quote:
Originally Posted by overthere! View Post
As for this episode, the basic setup was enjoyable. However, I sometimes get an impression of a child molester when it comes to Takeshi.
Except of course, Mayuko is the same age as he. Even if she doesn't look it. Back when we were speculating during episode 2 I asked, "Is she still a loli if she's hundreds of years old?" Well, turns out she wasn't that old, but the question is still valid.

But why does she dress that way? I was hoping it'd be because the clothes were in fashion when she bought them. But if she's not even 40 years old, she's just doing it for the fanservice.
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Old 2007-06-06, 02:15   Link #99
octoberasian
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I just finished watching the subbed Ep.9 and it got me thinking when Matsuri said the following:
Spoiler:


At that point, I was wondering: what did she mean by this?
Spoiler:
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Old 2007-06-06, 03:22   Link #100
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I wonder what Matsuri swore to.. back when Yorito went fubar again ~
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