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View Poll Results: Lucky Star - Episode 08 Rating
Perfect 10 30 27.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 37 34.26%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 8.33%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 3.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.93%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-06-04, 16:32   Link #201
Risaa
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A little bit random...

I thought I was "above" Kona in that I have never accidently bought the same volume of manga twice. Just now I was sorting manga I have accumulated over the semester on my shelf... and noticed I bought Rozen Maiden 7 twice. DX
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Old 2007-06-04, 23:00   Link #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risaa View Post
Whoa, your club watches L*S? The anime club at my high school would only show Inu Yasha and spend the rest of the time bashing Pokémon and Sailor Moon. Much 1337 points to your club!
Sorry, had been aways from the forums all weekend for A-Kon. It rocked by the way .. but I didn't see any L*S cosplayers. Guess it's still too soon. There weren't even that many Haruhis. It was just filled up with Bleach and Kingdom Hearts II folk.

Anyway, yeah, I'm part of a college anime club, so we have more freedom about what we can show. But, I guess I should clarify: not our entire club watches L*S; only a select few. So L*S isn't part of our regular weekly anime night lineup, but I'm glad I still do have people to talk to about it.

Also earlier in the thread were comments about tsundere != bipolar. I would agree .. but I guess I've concluded so far that a.f.k.'s goal is to try to come up with the best adaptation for American audiences? I'm just curious about the lack of footnotes. Earlier in the series I think it was a.f.k. who wrote "two egg twins" and "one egg twins." Why use that instead of "fraternal" and "identical"? And I think they've left in some Japanese words before; I think "tsundere" is presently untranslatable as well.

...I still think this episode must have had a lesser art budget than others. There's too much stillness in some characters for some scenes. And they look different (at least in the beginning of the episode) compared to other times. ...Unless they were just saving all the special stuff for the athletic festival, which was done quite prettily.

[13:39] I could -not- wait two hours for the bathroom if I needed to go...
[16:49] Oh look, a.f.k. made a side comment about the Newtype! That means some comments about tsundere, etc. in their translation wouldn't be so out of their style either, right?
[22:51] Aha, I get it now. It's not that a long song was chosen just so Konata would get cut off by the end of the credits after just one line... it's that she realized the whole song was in English and didn't want to sing it, quitting it early (but wasting a whole minute of time anyway because of the long intro). Totally didn't understand any of that from the raw. ^^;

( I don't mean to be ungrateful to a.f.k.; I appreciate having the subs very much, but I do wonder a little... )

Last edited by Crisu; 2007-06-04 at 23:10. Reason: Appended
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Old 2007-06-05, 01:18   Link #203
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I fundamentally disagree with a fair amount of a.f.k. translation choices in L*S ... but hey that's why we have choice in our viewing. Considering their turnover speed of release, they're still fairly impressive.
EnA scores the best compromise between flair and accuracy for me without resorting to footnotes. I also prefer their font/colors. My opinion only... obviously.
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Old 2007-06-05, 01:22   Link #204
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I like a.f.k. (I followed Haruhi and Kanon with their help), but this series just doesn't mesh with their style.
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Old 2007-06-05, 17:17   Link #205
DragoonKain3
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@Crisu
Umm, how sure of you that afk left some 'untranslatable' stuff? Apart from honorifics (which I have no clue as to why they leave them in as they're perfectly fine without them), I'm pretty sure they 'americanized' pretty much everything else.

Also, at 16:49, I have no idea whatsoever about what you mean afk having a side comment about Newtype. Are you sure its there, or have you just mistaken what Konata herself was saying about Newtype?


With EnA, you need some basic knowledge of Japanese otaku culture, but with AFK you need none. Of course, they're going to have their translations a bit off from its Japanese meaning (cowabunga anyone?), but IMHO it's a small price to pay in keeping the lol moments in L*S. As such I still maintain that afk has the most enjoyable subs, especially for the general audience.

Laughter or amusement > Translation accuracy, anyday of the week for me.
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Old 2007-06-05, 17:56   Link #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
With EnA, you need some basic knowledge of Japanese otaku culture, but with AFK you need none. Of course, they're going to have their translations a bit off from its Japanese meaning (cowabunga anyone?), but IMHO it's a small price to pay in keeping the lol moments in L*S. As such I still maintain that afk has the most enjoyable subs, especially for the general audience.

Laughter or amusement > Translation accuracy, anyday of the week for me.
That's the same as WinD... some of it won't make sense unless you already have some knowledge of Japanese culture. I agree that a.f.k. is probably best for a general audience that you can't expect would to want to learn anything about Japanese culture.

For me it's the other way around... I'll gladly take translation accuracy over amusement that has been westernized... To each his or her own ne.
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Old 2007-06-05, 19:25   Link #207
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Except for for me personally -- Translation accuracy makes it more likely I'll laugh. Overly westernize it and I'm not laughing at the original intent anymore and often I'm going to find it less funny. It'd be like someone rewording everything Robin Williams says in a standup.

I'm just glad there's a choice.
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Old 2007-06-05, 20:36   Link #208
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Originally Posted by Crisu View Post
I think "tsundere" is presently untranslatable as well.
It's usually translated as hot/cold personality, which I think is fine, although in cases like Mei in Manabi Straight, another viable translation would be shy-bold.
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Old 2007-06-06, 03:34   Link #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisu View Post
Also earlier in the thread were comments about tsundere != bipolar. I would agree .. but I guess I've concluded so far that a.f.k.'s goal is to try to come up with the best adaptation for American audiences? I'm just curious about the lack of footnotes. Earlier in the series I think it was a.f.k. who wrote "two egg twins" and "one egg twins." Why use that instead of "fraternal" and "identical"? And I think they've left in some Japanese words before; I think "tsundere" is presently untranslatable as well.
Personally, I'd rather have "tsundere" untranslated. As of the past year or two, it has entered almost as far into Japanese anime culture as moe and kawaii, and with due time even the lightest anime audience should probably know the word.
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Old 2007-06-06, 03:50   Link #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
Also, at 16:49, I have no idea whatsoever about what you mean afk having a side comment about Newtype. Are you sure its there, or have you just mistaken what Konata herself was saying about Newtype?
Oops, you're right. I didn't hear Konata in the background during that scene. So yeah, a.f.k. pretty much does Americanize everything for a general audience. And that's perfectly fine, because there are people who would just prefer it that way (such as yourself).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx
Except for for me personally -- Translation accuracy makes it more likely I'll laugh. Overly westernize it and I'm not laughing at the original intent anymore and often I'm going to find it less funny.
I also prefer the accuracy. So I guess that means I should try out the EnA version, as I would rather have those references left in. To me, "turn-on" and "bipolar" just aren't as funny or meaningful to me as "moe" and "tsundere." And while watching the a.f.k. sub, I'll read the odd word but hear the Japanese word and just quirk a brow. As Tsukasa will say in ep 9, "I just can't have fun like this." :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claies View Post
Personally, I'd rather have "tsundere" untranslated. As of the past year or two, it has entered almost as far into Japanese anime culture as moe and kawaii, and with due time even the lightest anime audience should probably know the word.
Hopefully so. And now I would think even a general audience now knows what "hentai" means or refers to.
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Old 2007-06-06, 12:07   Link #211
Vexx
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@Crisu: aye, same problem. I'll read the line while hearing the dialog and instead of laughing, my response is closer to "what the---?"

"General audience" .... really doesn't include JoeSixPack for this stuff. The type of audience drawn to this material is going to have an interest in japanese culture. They're either going to know some of the less translatable terms or be interested in learning them.

Hell, even when I show this stuff to my mother (I'm 49, do the math) - she always asks about terms because she's interested in knowing.

I don't know.. the kinds of liberties taken for fighting shows or shows with little direct japanese culture references might work... but it really diminishes the material otherwise imo.
I remember a particular Pokemon episode back in the early 90s that was just confusing and wrecked because it involved Shinto, a festival, a ghost, and local customs that the dub team was just unable to "Americanize" in their usual fashion. It was easy to tell something was amiss even if one was totally clueless about Japan.

Just keep in mind one is always getting information loss (filtering bias) when watching *any* sub/dub .... but also that you may be getting information that wasn't originally there.
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Old 2007-06-06, 13:45   Link #212
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i'm pretty late for this, but i'm quoting yanouchi's question, since i'm as lost as her
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanouchi View Post
somebody please explain why Shiraishi said "Don't touch me" when Akira-sama peeling the clipboard??...
i didn't get the reference and/or the pun/joke intended either... any kind soul who wouldn't mind to explain a bit? ^^"
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Old 2007-06-06, 14:10   Link #213
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
i'm pretty late for this, but i'm quoting yanouchi's question, since i'm as lost as her


i didn't get the reference and/or the pun/joke intended either... any kind soul who wouldn't mind to explain a bit? ^^"
I think he just fears that Akira would eventually take out her frustration over her inability to peel off the sticker paper on him. Which she did, although it took him to start it.

That was still the funniest piece of Engrish I've ever heard. Engrish seems to have its own "uncanny valley" that produces a great deal of laughs.
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Old 2007-06-06, 14:25   Link #214
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Oh, hoho. That's one reason I don't see being a native English-speaking gaijin as all that bad when watching anime... of course you'll miss stuff, but Engrish is hilarious. I can't imagine a lot of native Japanese people get what's funny about it.

I find that subs like a.f.k.'s is good for showing to the sister. She couldn't careless about learning Japanese culture... she just wants westernized funnies. It's less funny to me than understanding the joke and why it's funny in Japanese, but I'm also very interested in Japan and I want to learn new things about it when I can. Bah.
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Old 2007-06-06, 16:34   Link #215
Claies
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Oh, hoho. That's one reason I don't see being a native English-speaking gaijin as all that bad when watching anime... of course you'll miss stuff, but Engrish is hilarious. I can't imagine a lot of native Japanese people get what's funny about it.
Great example: Revy in Black Lagoon: The Second Barrage, Fujiyama Gangster Paradise arc. Revy sprays lots of NSFW language in Engrish, and Balalaika at one point speaks Engrish so slowly that it broke the mood.
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Old 2007-06-06, 17:51   Link #216
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Personally, I'd rather have "tsundere" untranslated. As of the past year or two, it has entered almost as far into Japanese anime culture as moe and kawaii, and with due time even the lightest anime audience should probably know the word.
I've been watching anime for about 6 years now and I didn't know tsundere until I heard someone use it in reference to Manabi Straight a few months ago, at which point I had to get my dictionary out. I do know it now though!

I suspect that most non-otaku know little more than "-san", and although they will of course know "karaoke" they wouldn't recognise the word if it was said by a Japanese person. As for moe, when even Abe Yoshitoshi has to ask what it means (and eventually concludes that it means "a person with a moustache") then I don't think we can assume anything about an English speaking audience's knowledge of it, and afk rendering it as "turn on" is unlikely to help people's general level of understanding ("hot" would actually be much better, both in spirit and etymology, although still not capturing the whole thing.)

Anyway, my position is that English subtitles should be in English. It really bugs me when I see words like "oneesan" in subtitle. Of course I know what oneesan means, but I also have ears and can hear it being said, I don't need it written down for me. However, people I pass my fansubs on to typically don't know what such words mean, they need all the words subtitled and they need them to be in English, not romaji. The only time I would leave a word in Japanese is when it's something like a technical term that is customarily kept in Japanese. For instance, "ippon" in a Judo anime. There is certainly no need to leave words like "kawaii" untranslated. People who know what it means will hear it being said anyway, those who don't will expect it to be translated for them. Some words are a challenge to translate of course, "moe" being an example, however this is largely because it doesn't have a fixed meaning in Japanese, but rather a constellation of meanings. I don't think tsundere is difficult to translate though (but I wouldn't translate it as "bipolar"...)
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Old 2007-06-06, 20:59   Link #217
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A big part of this episode is the sport festival

Spoiler:




yeap

Oh well... It seems like I'll have to do another atempt at a Unfair Advantage signature (let's see if I can install photoshop first)

Spoiler for my first creation:




Wish me luck guys!!
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Old 2007-06-06, 22:58   Link #218
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Having watched digisubbing since the turn of the century, I myself didn't know about tsundere at all until I visited asuki forums during F/Sn season(before the forums got haxxored IIRC). Then and only then did I learn all these otaku lingo, since asuki conveniently keeps them in one thread. In fact, I think asuki is the only forum I visit that's hardcore enough to throw out words like cours, eroge, and sakuga (as opposed to, say, 'seasons', h-games, or animation quality) as if it were like actual words in the English dictionary.

I blame our unusually high number of Japanese fluent members who actually posts often for this. :P



@Vexx
One can't really just assume that certain people with a certain trait are going to be drawn to a show.

Case in point, Tsukuyomi Moon Phase, one of the few shows that's popular enough to get more than an hour of screen time over at this year's anime north (I think Haruhi is the only other one). One would think its main audience in NA are males who's into 'lolipedo-shows', but oh man, there's actually noticeably much more girls than guys watching the show. I thought it was a coincidence last year, but the same happened this year as well. Reason why? These girls really dig the goth and/or loli-kawaii fashions the girls wear, was the reason I got a lot.

How's this relates to L*S? Well, there's a whole slew of reasons why people is watching the show. Not to generalize here, but there are some people who's just into it because it has moe (whether or not they actually are aware of it or even know what moe is), some because it has ONLY girls (everyone knows of the yaoi-loving crazy fangirl, but less known but almost as widespread from my experience, there is also the yuri-loving crazy fanguy), some because it has a bit of references to other anime they watched, and some just because it's by KyoAni, etc. etc.

Whatever the reason is, what percentage of those are willing to learn more stuff? And what percentage of those actually knows the terms? While it's pointless to debate what the actual percentage is, from my experience I noticed that the latter is very very small. With the former, more often than not people I know who's into anime use it as a form of escapism, and as such their enjoyment of a show goes down if they have to stop what they are watching and spend 10 mins looking up a term that they don't understand, even if it is of Japanese origin. Or what's most often the case (especially in anime clubs, conventions, etc.), they forget to look up, don't have the means to look it up, or just don't care about that term in the show they didn't understand, as such their experience of a show isn't as high as it should be.

Therefore, that's one half of my reasoning as to why the 'general' audience will enjoy afk more. The other half is much more simpler, though by the looks of it, it only applies to the early episodes. As an example I brought up before, 'Like cowabunga!'. EnA translated it as 'Akira is mammothly happy-pii', WinD is 'Akira is so happy-pi'. The next line is Shiraishi saying the audience wouldn't undestrand a phrase 2 decades ago. For the average Japanese-deficient watcher who's born earlier than the 90's, more often than not they would get afk's while they'll go 'WTF? How were those 2 lines related?' on the latter two.

Thus my comment 'Laughter or amusement > translation accuracy'; I really could care less what the actual information was given out as long as they carry the spirit and purpose of the original message. Then again, you're speaking to the guy who loved the translation of Working Designs (RIP) to bits. >_>
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Old 2007-06-07, 00:48   Link #219
Vexx
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No argument with the post there --- all I was saying was that *my* preference was what it was. I think you can achieve what you're talking about without resorting to extreme liberties though --- you don't want to head towards the "Whats up, Tiger Lily?" solution
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Old 2007-06-11, 21:45   Link #220
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HAHA @ Kagami's attempts to memorize the first 7 elements of the periodic table.

Hydrogen
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Boron
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