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Old 2007-06-12, 13:11   Link #1
DarkT
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Join Date: Jun 2007
My Encoding Process Chart, suggestions? Corrections?

I've posted it on doom9 some week ago or so when it was less complete - but that didn't really matter coz' it discusses the possibility of the source not being from the original DVD - so, it got removed .

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/8...sschartqq3.png

Mind you, it's still unfinished, and it doesn't have an audio section, nor has it anything about how to deal with VFR files which are NOT 120fps .avi files - mainly because I didn't work with those - yet .

Another thing - in it you can see that I make 1/2 loseless passes, while some may argue it's a waste of time, I don't quite agree... You could be waiting God knows how much for the Translation scripts, and once you get them, wether your script is light or heavy, you would launch a loseless pass + x.264 passes, or maybe JSUT x.264 passes - whatever it is you'd launch, doesn't matter - it'd takea good deal of time - while with a loseless pass, I already do all the filtering and everything, and the when I get the Translation scripts, I don't need to do the heavy filtering! It's already nicely done and waiting in a loseless file, just waiting to be re-encoded into x.264 + subs - plus, loseless passes are always a nice way to check wether you messed something up or not... Meow... And I sort of like to break my work into many steps - it's easier to troubleshoot problems that way.



So, suggestions? Corrections? Anything? Meow... .

Edit:

Oh, and crap version is what I call the file which TLer/Typesetter gets - I do not filter(to save time) and give those low bitrate(to save space, faster dl).
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:03   Link #2
CupORamen
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Umm....are you just converting the source to a lossless AVI THEN filtering? WTF? That doesn't make any sense...if you are making it a VFR or regular framerate file, you should consider doing your filters in that first lossless stage, that should reduce your time. It's a HUGE waste of time to sit there and make an AVI to deal with THEN filtering it...
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:11   Link #3
Starks
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Your workraw should be your lossless pass. Apply all filtering, karaoke, and typsetting at that point.
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:23   Link #4
DarkT
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"are you just converting the source to a lossless AVI THEN filtering?"

No... How did you get that impression?! Please check the chart again.

"Your workraw should be your lossless pass. Apply all filtering, karaoke, and typsetting at that point."

Waste of time, mostly, if you apply filters and everything WITH subs - which are prone to errors, always, what happens when you need to fix a typo? You need to re-encode it - ALL OF IT - filtering included... Also, you don't get the typesetting/kara/translation instantly, so you waste time waiting, while you could already have started making a loseless pass which is filtered and all that.

Edit:

"l33tmeatwad" - if you still don't see it, please cut/paste the part which you think is "bad".
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:27   Link #5
CupORamen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starks View Post
Your workraw should be your lossless pass. Apply all filtering, karaoke, and typsetting at that point.
Actually it would be smarter to filter and clean up the video on the first lossless encode, which reduces the FINAL encoding time when you add the subs on the final encode...you do realize that filters slow it down right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
"are you just converting the source to a lossless AVI THEN filtering?"

No... How did you get that impression?! Please check the chart again.
Check your DVD list again, the arrow points to lossless encode THEN filtering...maybe you didn't mean to do that...



IMO, it's best to do color tweaks and other filters to clean up the video on the lossless pass, then just apply the subs during the final encode..
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:33   Link #6
DarkT
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Everything is fine there - only, with DVD sources I usually have 2 loseless passes (check the arrows, I know I know - it's a mess, but eventually there's 2 loseless passes for DVDs).

Look - see that 1st loseless pass? It's on the "dvd" tree-part - it's got right before it the "Pre-ivtc FILTERING / IVTC / FF" - and then a loseless pass.

Why don't I add ALL of the filtering? Well, I'm a noob - many times the IVTC process gets fucked up, etc... Many times the PRE-IVTC filtering (rainbows/dotcrawl) mess a bit things up - so that's why I don't do too much in that pass, just what's neccesairy - since I know I might fuck it up - so that way I minimise the time loss in case I made a mistake .

Are we talking about the same thing? Or are we having one of those sweet miscommunication times? .
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:40   Link #7
emptyeighty
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Just one thing: LoSSless.
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:41   Link #8
CupORamen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
Everything is fine there - only, with DVD sources I usually have 2 loseless passes (check the arrows, I know I know - it's a mess, but eventually there's 2 loseless passes for DVDs).

Look - see that 1st loseless pass? It's on the "dvd" tree-part - it's got right before it the "Pre-ivtc FILTERING / IVTC / FF" - and then a loseless pass.

Why don't I add ALL of the filtering? Well, I'm a noob - many times the IVTC process gets fucked up, etc... Many times the PRE-IVTC filtering (rainbows/dotcrawl) mess a bit things up - so that's why I don't do too much in that pass, just what's neccesairy - since I know I might fuck it up - so that way I minimise the time loss in case I made a mistake .

Are we talking about the same thing? Or are we having one of those sweet miscommunication times? .
Good nuff, I've done several lossless passes before, no harm no foul. Things get really confusing, ESPECIALLY if you are fansubbing from a DVD, ESPECIALLY VFR.
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:47   Link #9
DarkT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptyeighty View Post
Just one thing: LoSSless.
Being Jewish I prefer to write Loseless (who gets the joke? Kekekekeke, yes yes, I know I know - it still has SS in the end of it).

Thanks - will correct it in final version .

As for VFR DVD - that wasn't yet added to the chart... Last time I did it was with Tdecimate double pass and frankly I'm still not quite sure what the heck I was doing - well, I do - but it's not "solid" - I prefer to write about things I know more then I do not . Sort of... Meow...
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:50   Link #10
Starks
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*edited upon request*
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Last edited by Starks; 2011-04-28 at 15:01.
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:51   Link #11
CupORamen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkT View Post
As for VFR DVD - that wasn't yet added to the chart... Last time I did it was with Tdecimate double pass and frankly I'm still not quite sure what the heck I was doing - well, I do - but it's not "solid" - I prefer to write about things I know more then I do not . Sort of... Meow...
Umm...that would be the best way to do it...as the only other way really is MANUAL (I'm sorry, but my time is too precious to sit down and record 30fps parts of the video), plus it seems to be more accurate than manual as well. I DID have to do a video manual VFR for the intro once when I had to apply AFX to the video (and paste them together).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starks View Post
That's what I said... <_<
Well, you said typesetting...what if something changes? (I've had that happen MANY times...)
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Old 2007-06-12, 14:52   Link #12
CupORamen
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Double Post Delete Plz
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Old 2007-06-12, 15:36   Link #13
Nicholi
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Lol...I love the chart. Though gets quite insane at points. Things like...if the source is from a DVD you would always need to crop no matter what. If the cropping was perfect enough you could technically leave the video as is...in the case of Crop(8,0,-8,0) then the video is already 704x480. Whether or not to crop when you are using a plain TV cap...well only if the AR error gets huge, otherwise usually unimportant. Personally I do all Crop/Resizing/Trimming before anything else in an .avs.

Just wondering what is the "Need Hybrid?" step you had?
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Old 2007-06-12, 15:39   Link #14
DarkT
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Ijiwaru... I bet that was sarcasm... Even I find it hard to look at it - and I made the damned thing >.> Hehehe .

Lol, but thanks .

Edit:

Need hybrid is for those nice cases when your DVD uses 29.970 Progressive CG stuff inside the video - so then if you just do normal IVTC you sort of kill movement on taht part - so you can either make it VFR, OR - you could try set Tdecimate to hybrid more (hybrid=1 /me thinks) and then it'll blend those parts down to 23.976 or an explanation similiar to this .

Basically it's hard for me to see it before I have a complete file where I can press "play" hence it goes in a circle sort of - 1st I try without, and then if I see that some parts start "getting stuck" or whatever, I try with hybrid...

Meow , and thanks again... You're the first one to say something nice about that monster .

Last edited by DarkT; 2007-06-12 at 16:05.
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Old 2007-06-12, 19:00   Link #15
TheFluff
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Are you SURE you couldn't have figured out a more inefficient way to detect 30fps zones?
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-06-12, 19:26   Link #16
DarkT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post

Are you SURE you couldn't have figured out a more inefficient way to detect 30fps zones?
I think I could try a bit harder and find a more inefficient way .

As I've previously stated, I'm pretty much new to all of this encoding stuff, and I lck lots of info - for example - this is simply the ONLY way I know of detecting it... Honest ... If you know a better way - dude, I'm totally open for suggestions .
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Old 2007-06-12, 19:50   Link #17
TheFluff
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1. YATTA
2. YATTA
3. YATTA
4. If you really insist on supermasochism, Virtualdub and an Avisynth script plus some TDecimate metrics

(Really, this is EXACTLY what YATTA was MADE to make simple. Use it.)
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-06-12, 19:54   Link #18
DarkT
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*sigh* YATTA always looked so complex and "pro" to me... But wait, I think I'm misunderstanding, when you said "inefficient" - what were you reffering to? the hybrid=1 mode? Or me watching the video to see if it gets "stucky" to identify wether it needs hybrid=1 or not? .

Because the YATTA comment seems like it's more related to the hybrid=1, and not what I was replying to - the "watch video to see if it has stuttering places to identify wether it needs hybrid=1 or not" .
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Old 2007-06-12, 20:34   Link #19
TheFluff
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Actually I meant both. YATTA is the most efficient way I know of to detect 30fps sections (use the "Find VFR" button, hurr). And never ever ever use hybrid=1 if you can go VFR, it's a really really bad idea.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-06-12, 20:40   Link #20
Yumi`
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From non-dvd raw to xvid in avi: just use selectevery(5).assumefps(24000,1001) or selectevery(4).assumefps(30000,1001) instead of tdecimate.
Also why would you rely on the assumefps value from the timecodes file? From my experiences it's chosen pretty much randomly.
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