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Old 2007-05-27, 09:52   Link #21
checkers
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1: Their encoder has supported VBR for donkey's years.
2: I assume if I fed it a source with more channels these options wouldn't be so grey.
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Old 2007-05-27, 17:59   Link #22
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Now that we talk about sound, any method to enhance the audio?
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Old 2007-05-27, 20:01   Link #23
Nicholi
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Originally Posted by checkers View Post
1: Their encoder has supported VBR for donkey's years.
Not really donkey years, check some fun H2 posts of ancientness. It was without VBR for looonnng some time. Which is the only reason I remembered it. Nero's just had VBR from the start. Peeps have been encoding AAC longer then donkey years n_n.

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Old 2007-05-28, 15:40   Link #24
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I've heard about people having filesize nightmares with multi-channel Vorbis, so what profile and/or bitrate would you recommend for AAC if I want transcode and have no noticeable loss of quality?
Can somebody please answer me?
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Old 2007-05-28, 16:25   Link #25
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I think a good guideline usually is 64-96 kbit per channel, ie. 384-576 kbit for 5+1.
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Old 2007-05-28, 16:27   Link #26
Nicholi
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Most people will say never use HE for any type of high quality encode because its just not nice :P, so use LC-AAC for sure. Though I'd say you have a good chance of aiming a bit lower then jfs's recommendations thar. Not really sure though for 5.1, few people bother to blind test it. And I am no audiophile :P.
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Old 2007-05-28, 17:43   Link #27
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/me heard an audiophile say that 5.1 AAC-HE @ 128kbps sounded awesome on a 5.1 audio setup

Who knows... (maybe it was just supposed to be; "Hey, sounds awesome at such a low bitrate, otherwise... Urgh"). I never tested it myself (actually, not really that I can). I had someone complain when I used 160kbps, moved up to 250kbps and heard that it sounded awesome, so I left it there. No complaints from then on. Maybe something like 280-320 would be a bit safer though...

I've been using AAC-HE for some time now, nobody complained, neither did I (and I do test stuff throughoutly before actually using it; maybe as Fluff said, I might need to have my ears checked out...). Mostly people won't pay so much attention to audio since they are focused on reading the subtitles on the video, just something that one guy said and I kinda though; "well, fairly good point". That's just my point of view though, stay with Nicholi's advice to be on the safe side, that is use LC.
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Last edited by martino; 2007-05-28 at 17:53. Reason: typos & grammar
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Old 2007-05-28, 19:47   Link #28
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What converters do you guys use? I use BeLight (a nice BeSweet GUI) and MeGUI.

Edit: Also, should I use CBR, VBR, or ABR?
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Last edited by Starks; 2007-05-28 at 20:52.
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Old 2007-05-28, 20:18   Link #29
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/me heard an audiophile say that 5.1 AAC-HE @ 128kbps sounded awesome on a 5.1 audio setup
Do you have a clip that we could try listening to? Depending on the sample, it might have worked, but that's -really- low bitrate for 5.1. Symptoms show especially in the high frequencies (like when people use the 's' sound) where you can hear artifacts. This is because audio encoders often use a low-pass filter, getting rid of the higher frequencies.

Encoding a CD original stereo 48kHz sample rate to 128 kilobits, several encoders I tested attenuated at 16kHz. But that's only with two channels. While the compression ratio gets better the more channels you add, you still need a higher total bitrate. So when you do something like 128 kilobits 5.1 it will probably attenuate even lower causing clipping when the audio would normally reach those high frequencies.

Of course, this is just one form of audio artifacting, there are others, this is just one I've studied a little.
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Old 2007-05-29, 06:26   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Starks View Post
Edit: Also, should I use CBR, VBR, or ABR?
VBR, unless you encoded the video already and want to hit a specific bitrate (don't do that).
And yes, don't use Vorbis for 5.1, it's much less efficient than AAC for that.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-05-29, 06:28   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
VBR, unless you encoded the video already and want to hit a specific bitrate (don't do that).
And yes, don't use Vorbis for 5.1, it's much less efficient than AAC for that.
Which AAC encoder do you find most to be best? I can't find a decent frontend/GUI that lets me encode anything beyond 320kbps unless I use FAAC.
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Old 2007-05-29, 06:44   Link #32
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I've used Nero's CLI encoder with great success in the past. I think you can use it from BeLight too, but last time I did it I encoded a 2 hours long 5.1 WAV (about 4 GB IIRC) with BeSweet and fed Nero's CLI encoder that.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-05-29, 07:00   Link #33
martino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unearthly View Post
Do you have a clip that we could try listening to? Depending on the sample, it might have worked, but that's -really- low bitrate for 5.1. Symptoms show especially in the high frequencies (like when people use the 's' sound) where you can hear artifacts. This is because audio encoders often use a low-pass filter, getting rid of the higher frequencies.
Yeah, I'm sure of that. It's just too low, you can notice just by looking at the number. I don't really have any samples with me right now, and I'm not really sure what would be a good source for one either... I could encode some of the Moonlight Mile stuff, since that's the only 5.1 stuff that I have at hand.

I've been using the SNG GUI for Nero, with BeBipe. You can get it from here (Doom9 thread here). BeLight I would say is a very good choice though, if you have the correct libraries you can use it for Vorbis and AC3 as well.
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Old 2007-05-29, 07:31   Link #34
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I'm confused now... Do the bitrate selectors and profile selectors indicate bitrate per channel or total bitrate of the entire stream?

Also, how do I convert bitrate to Q (quantizer)?
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Last edited by Starks; 2007-05-29 at 08:08.
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Old 2007-05-29, 08:12   Link #35
TheFluff
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Also, how do I convert bitrate to Q (quantizer)?
You don't, that's kind of the point.

And bitrate is for the entire stream, not per channel.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-05-29, 08:16   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
You don't, that's kind of the point.

And bitrate is for the entire stream, not per channel.
So, what quantizer levels are desirable?

(Also, I apologize for asking so many questions. I'm trying to learn how to be a better encoder this summer and asking here is far more effective than at Doom9.)
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Old 2007-05-29, 08:21   Link #37
TheFluff
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So, what quantizer levels are desirable?
Whatever sounds good to your ears and gives an acceptable filesize. :V
For me and Nero's AAC encoder, that's somewhere around 0.3-0.4, if I recall correctly (it's been a while since I used it). Try on some short (4-5 minutes) samples and see what seems good.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2007-05-29, 08:37   Link #38
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For some reason, my transcodes are coming out as AAC (HE) SBR even when I set the profile as LC.
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Last edited by Starks; 2007-05-29 at 09:41.
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Old 2007-06-15, 02:17   Link #39
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edit: never mind
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Last edited by Starks; 2007-06-15 at 05:21.
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Old 2007-06-15, 06:05   Link #40
martino
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For some reason, my transcodes are coming out as AAC (HE) SBR even when I set the profile as LC.
The profile is set automatically by the encoder, anything below and including 48kbps is HEv2 (SBR+PS), not sure about when HE (SBR) kicks in, maybe around 128 or 96kbps. Though I think that you can force the profile to some extent, like use HEv2 @ 64kbps, though I'm sure that's not recommended. The encoder application knows best when to kick in SBR and/or PS.
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