Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

oh this is a good idea XD

i didnt think of it haha at least it would be temporary, if he can master it he wouldnt have pain anymore (coms from my theory about "how grimoires are mindr*ping beings)...

mmmhhhh do you think kakine in dark matter form would be affected by the grimoires???
he is practically immortal and has this second personality stuff...

The knowledge of grimoires would be useless to him because its poison to the brains. Even if his immortal and can infinitely multiply. Its useless if every being he created turn vegetable because of brain dead.

Actually I was thinking and brainstorming on how an esper can use magic.

Magic and AIM are both opposite side of the same coin.

Its the same coin because its power over world.

Magic try to bend the rules of the world to suit the users

while

AIM replace the current rules with the owners rules.

Hence, the clash.

the usage of magic and AIM are oppositely to each other because of that.

But how about one create a whole new branch of magic with the use of AIM?

shouldn't it be modern type of magic? the one Aleister wanted?

though Aleister is a magician but he is also the leader of the science side.

And for him, we aren't sure if he uses Mana or AIM but one thing is for sure.

He is letting the machine do the refining of his life force.

can't that be done by the espers too?

use medium or machine to do the life force refining into mana?

accelerator uses his electrode choker to bower processing powers from the sisters because he himself is incapable of doing it with his brain damage.

[LevelSeven]

use medium or machine to do the life force refining into mana?

this is a interesting idea, i had a similar idea where (a fanfic idea) a "magic" organization developed a weapon, they succeeded to create a "spirtiual/magical" item while they fused magic and science together....

it is activated with the AIM field of a esper which means that the weapon can only be used by espers, than it analyzes the AIM field and through electrical impulses into the body it simulates the conditions which are needed to refine life force into mana,

the weapon would be the medium which "catches" the mana directly after it is produced, so that their will be no "clach" between the two forces.......

but it was only a fanfic idea so i didnt bother myself to think about such a possibility inside the canon toaru...

[Birdway]

He still would be self destructing even i he regenerates.

[LevelSeven]

grimoire are dangerous but they aren absolute....

even if their is pain, it is easy to see that after some time they would master the grimoire...
therefore: temporary dangerous....

[allfictions]

Please provide us examples of people who survived Grimoires after some times besides Ollerus. Ouma needed Touma to punch him.

What you're doing is the equivalent of saying you can come back from an encounter with a Lovecraftian god, and not be permanently rendered insane.

[LevelSeven]

Index??
izzard??

maybe people like sorcerers which are able to handle the power of a grimoire??

[allfictions]

Index has photographic memory, Aureolus wrote Grimoires.

One is not your normal magicians (isn't even one actually), the other's job wasn't reading Grimoires.

Grimoires are dangerous when you actually try to read them. Besides Index and Orsola whose job was specifically decoding, how does that prove Kakine who has no contact with magic survive and use it?

[LevelSeven]

i didnt say that he instantly masters it....

temorary dangerous like: a few monthy....

normal beings would die in the moment they tr to read it, kakine/accel+ambrosia) would have a hard time but thanks to being immortal they would survive which brings them to the point of mastering the knowledge...

[Miraluka]

Not read, just a fast glance without even knowing the contents is enough to fry your brain.

[tsunade666]

Actually >_> why does Kakine needed to learn a grimoire to begin with?

he has dark matter for pete's sake and it updates automatically and infinitely mutate and grow.

Though if you really need an esper and magician hybrid then didn't I provide clue already?

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Its the same coin because its power over world.

Magic try to bend the rules of the world to suit the users

while

AIM replace the current rules with the owners rules.

Hence, the clash.

Create a WHOLE NEW MAGIC SYSTEM that doesn't clash with the SYSTEM OF ESPER.

Its not that the energy clash with each other but the system itself. Though creating a new one isn't easy which is why its easy to based on legend when using magic.

The reason Vento's innards explode isn't because of high concentration of AIM its because the field has different set of laws already. If she force to control it using her own knowledge then it will just backfire.

I'm pretty much sure the book of laws is probably a whole new type of grimoire that has AIM knowledge on it (though not sure as sure but speculate sure)

When Aleister uses the knowledge of Book of Laws given to him by Aiwass. The knew age was born. The eon of Horus. Though it still sketchy but horus probably breaks the barrier between magic and esper. Which is what Aleister is.

[Ravagerblade]

So Kakaine is like the Zerg? ^

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Ravagerblade

So Kakaine is like the Zerg? ^

He can if he will though if the command of the head is not precise or has limitation or exact. Error could happen or dark matter kakine could rise again against beetle kakine.

Remember, the current kakine represents infinite possibilities but here in tamni. Being infinite isn't good because the real form of infinity is 50/50. While in other series. Being infinite strong is good because its all about power level. Here, its bad.

Kakine is also probably immortal now. Given time, he can probably do anything but that needs time and study.

While kakine holds infinite possibilities his database/process is limited to what his human capabilities has which is why he still can't surpass Accelerator in raw battle or combat but he can play mind games like what happen in their latest battle.

Kakine given time can possible create a whole new colony of huge insects like vajra from macross frontier.

But then again. HE NEEDS TIME AND TO LEARN.

The limitation of espers like Kakine and Accelerator is they need to learn.

For

Accelerator he needs to learn to control

Kakine needs to learn to create.

Don't care about rank 3 and below. They really can't compare to this 2 in potential.

Even rank 7 Gunha which is mysterious is probably still no where compare to rank 1 and 2.

[Birdway]

I think Aleister made his esper incompatible with any magic because Keikaku.

[LevelSeven]

Actually >_> why does Kakine needed to learn a grimoire to begin with?

he has dark matter for pete's sake and it updates automatically and infinitely mutate and grow.

Though if you really need an esper and magician hybrid then didn't I provide clue already?

it was only for theoretical lulz XD

So Kakaine is like the Zerg?

who is zerg??

e can if he will though if the command of the head is not precise or has limitation or exact. Error could happen or dark matter kakine could rise again against beetle kakine.

Remember, the current kakine represents infinite possibilities but here in tamni. Being infinite isn't good because the real form of infinity is 50/50. While in other series. Being infinite strong is good because its all about power level. Here, its bad.

Kakine is also probably immortal now. Given time, he can probably do anything but that needs time and study.

so true and he still lost every fight which was dexcriped in detail

While kakine holds infinite possibilities his database/process is limited to what his human capabilities has which is why he still can't surpass Accelerator in raw battle or combat but he can play mind games like what happen in their latest battle.

this is one think i didnt understand, if kakine can recreate infinite clones of himself with a similar brainstructure, than why didnt he use the clones as booster for his calculations?? (like accel, even if the clones arent really boosters)

furthermore why should he be restricted by limitations which involves a brain?? he can freely change his look into whatever he wants, if he wanted to he could reate a dark matter body with a brain who can calculate 1000 times faster than accels non-injured brain....

as a partially only information based life form he shouldnt have such limitations, hence he is practically the most "infinite" being in toaru...

Kakine given time can possible create a whole new colony of huge insects like vajra from macross frontier.

he could also create or recreate the whole mankind, any animal (even the ones which doesnt exist anymore, like dinos), and every plant.....

strange that the LN says: he controls the organic while accel control the anorganic, it is the complete opposite

But then again. HE NEEDS TIME AND TO LEARN.

The limitation of espers like Kakine and Accelerator is they need to learn.

For

Accelerator he needs to learn to control

Kakine needs to learn to create.

similar with thor who power up by fighting other strong enemys...

unfortunatly their are so little beings which can be considered a thread to them, it is ridiculous....

their are (only for gaining experience, so no vento since im not to 100% sure if she can affect them and if yes than it is a curpstomp battle wher ethey cant gan experience):

-fiamma
-ollerus
-aleister (if he isnt absolute OP)
-thor (almighty mode, the other two versions would be wiped out in a second)
-izzard (if he can create things, or he can reality warp without affecting them directly)
-maybe MAYBE saints
-saints IF they ALL work together and use teamwork combat strategies like the amakusas (would be interesting )
-marian with deinsleif (without heartstop attack, it would do little demage agaisnt kakine if he isnt in his human form, and if it uses vectors)
-people who can exploid their weakpoints, like kihara amata (even if accel suffered under a hugh brain limitation)

I think Aleister made his esper incompatible with any magic because Keikaku.

i agree, it is to "lucky" that they clash against each other in such a high level....maybe their is something in the esper creation pogramm which acts like a "collar"(similar with the one who prevends her from refining life force into mana, different because it forces the mana out of control instead of preventing them from using it)
and what is keikaku??

[Ravagerblade]

^Zerg is a Race from the StarCraft games, It's an RTS. I only suggested it because Tsunade was talking about Kakine

he has dark matter for pete's sake and it updates automatically and infinitely mutate and grow.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

this is one think i didnt understand, if kakine can recreate infinite clones of himself with a similar brainstructure, than why didnt he use the clones as booster for his calculations?? (like accel, even if the clones arent really boosters)

furthermore why should he be restricted by limitations which involves a brain?? he can freely change his look into whatever he wants, if he wanted to he could reate a dark matter body with a brain who can calculate 1000 times faster than accels non-injured brain....

as a partially only information based life form he shouldnt have such limitations, hence he is practically the most "infinite" being in toaru...

The problem of creating infinite clones is their own EGO.

Kakine isn't like sisters who are dolls or at least doesn't have strong ego.

Kakine's dark matter has their own brains and EGO.

Look at what happen when Kakine create 5? beetles and order them to kill Last Order?

One betrayed dark matter Kakine and took control of THE NETWORK of DARK MATTER

One miscalculation would be the being that will destroy Beetle Kakine.

Which is probably why he looks weak against Rensa when he should just overwhelm her.

Beetle Kakine is trying to suppress or doesn't want to gave any chances for the bad/dark matter kakine to take control again.

Sure he can probably create a whole bunch of clones and network them together to boost his processing power but with each clone having attitude problem?

that won't work.

Which is also why Aleister uses number 3. She is much more useful and doesn't have problems in making into mass copies/clones to create the network. They won't go amok on their own or seize control. So only 1 control tower (last order) is needed. The others will only follow.

As for Saints. They can probably put a decent fight against Beetle kakine.

Kakine doesn't have much experience against magic. As a matter of fact? I can't remember him fighting magicians.... wait my memory is fuzze because its already way past midnight but now that I'm trying to remember.

I can't remember Kakine fought strong magicians or magicians at all.

Have he already experience magic?

But just like what I said. Kamachi gave a good reason for him to weak or at least not that OP >_> like his other characters that after their highlights on their arc. They return weaker but on the side of the good ones or at least heroes' side >_> which I also don't like....

[LevelSeven]

The problem of creating infinite clones is their own EGO.

Kakine isn't like sisters who are dolls or at least doesn't have strong ego.

Kakine's dark matter has their own brains and EGO.

Look at what happen when Kakine create 5? beetles and order them to kill Last Order?

One betrayed dark matter Kakine and took control of THE NETWORK of DARK MATTER

wasnt this only because of level 5 aim stalker??

Which is probably why he looks weak against Rensa when he should just overwhelm her.

Beetle Kakine is trying to suppress or doesn't want to gave any chances for the bad/dark matter kakine to take control again.

Sure he can probably create a whole bunch of clones and network them together to boost his processing power but with each clone having attitude problem?

that won't work.

in NT5 he created 300 clones which didnt mess around...

and i think that beetle kakine is weaker than the bad one, much weaker (it is only a feeling)

what i wanted to say is that he wouldnt even need clones, since he can create a brain who should do the calculation isnt it odd that he cant simply create a brain with a calculation ability 1000 times faster than accels??

As for Saints. They can probably put a decent fight against Beetle kakine.

yeah, i think it would be interesting...

Kakine doesn't have much experience against magic. As a matter of fact? I can't remember him fighting magicians.... wait my memory is fuzze because its already way past midnight but now that I'm trying to remember.

I can't remember Kakine fought strong magicians or magicians at all.

Have he already experience magic?

as far as beetle kakine was shown.....no, not that they ever mentioned something like that.....

but original kakine,
ok it was a curpstomp battle but im sure that he will find out about the magic side after he escapes from sargasso and sees the "whole wide world"....

But just like what I said. Kamachi gave a good reason for him to weak or at least not that OP >_> like his other characters that after their highlights on their arc. They return weaker but on the side of the good ones or at least heroes' side >_> which I also don't like....

agree to 9999% and increasing....

^Zerg is a Race from the StarCraft games, It's an RTS. I only suggested it because Tsunade was talking about Kakine

oooooohhhhhhh

[Miraluka]

wasnt this only because of level 5 aim stalker??

She only broke the submission for brief time and that was enough for B5 to realize his ego and take over the network.

[LevelSeven]

She only broke the submission for brief time and that was enough for B5 to realize his ego and take over the network.

you mean the "signal" between beetle and kakine?? i thought she somehow controlled the dark matter directly

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

in NT5 he created 300 clones which didnt mess around...

and i think that beetle kakine is weaker than the bad one, much weaker (it is only a feeling)

Those 300 clones has direct order to kill Accelerator.

The bug clone has order to search for Accelerator.

If the order is simple and the clone doesn't need to think much about it then its probably won't rebel.

But for a brain itself to be cloned to increase the processing power?

Your forgetting that dark matter is more like a celluloid being than an actual being.

It can multiply as long as a single cell was left behind. The whole data is already imprinted on it.

And the reason why I said that Kakine is only limited to human knowledge or his human brain processing because that is indeed the way dark kakine thinks. He is simple minded fool who hates Accelerator for being number 1 and him being only number 2 and spare plan. He is just there for petty revenge.

Beetle Kakine actually questions the order and his own reason for being created.

For Kakine's power of dark matter. You will be needed to be open minded and creative because its the power of creation. You will also needed to have lots of knowledge or data to process your power or else you will be limited in your form of creation.

Unlike BS magic which what you imagine can be recreated.

I doubt that will work for Dark Matter because its a creation of Science. It needs data and information for it to work and not just your imagination run wild.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

you mean the "signal" between beetle and kakine?? i thought she somehow controlled the dark matter directly

She can't do that. She just disrupts the network of dark matter.