[PS3/PSV] Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki

[Rinvelt]

Yeah, I didn't like how after unlocking Spirit Unification it only becomes a gameplay thing, and Rean never uses it in the story after that. Well, he does kind of use it once, I guess. (Speaking only of CS2)

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I'm sorry to say this but...while It's ok to love the game, maybe you guys should accept that CS2 have many flaws.



Class VII always get saved/helped in important battle through out the game, they only managed to defeat trash mob and trash boss but they jobbed every time against anything else. It is not about how their "lost" can be explained or not, it's more about why the writer chose to make a story like this when there should be many better ways he could go with.



Sky SC did it ways better. At the final dungeon , all of characters who were important went to explore final dungeon together. Then, you can choose who to bring with Estelle and Joshua. If you bring correct characters to correct boss fight (i.e. bring Oliver and Kloe to Bleublanc fight, bring Zin to Walter fight), your party will actually 'defeat' the boss. The bosses accepted their lost and escaped. There is a feel of accomplishment here.

In CS2 final dungeon, they could have let Class VII meet with those people who come to help them in the front of the tower ,recruit them into the party and go in together. Then the game can do something similar to Sky SC as I said in above paragraph. Instead, we got characters came out of nowhere at the right time to save them
and the battle continue "elsewhere" with no actual conclusion to be seen.

Also, story-wise, it feels like Class VII didn't realize that the task given to them is impossible. If no one come to save them, they would be dead. There is no plan B or whatever. Rean basically lead everyone to their death and everyone just mindlessly follow Rean. It is also funny that Rean gave those epic and motivate speeches before every fight and they still get defeated every time. Except with Vita and Clow fight, of course.



Then, Rean should've spend a time to practice to control his power. At one point of CS2, he already managed to have a good control over his power. Why stop there? It's also very clear that Rean only went berserk when someone close to him was in danger. This means all he need to do is to train his mind to be able to clam down when that happened. He needs to learn to live with it not refuses it.

.................................................. ....

Look, I have fun go around exploring the world. I like almost all characters and NPCs. The battle mechanics are interesting. BUT there is no way I will think the plot and storytelling in CS2 are good or make sense.

How can he try to train and control something that he has absolutely no knowledge of what it was in the first place? I can understand this reasoning if he had hints of what it was (so that he can take precautions in case something backfires or he might do something reckless when training, since there's bound to be a consequence when using it). However, he had next to no answers of what it was. The only person who even gave him even a little hint of what it was is McBurn, and he's not the best example to follow. Trying to experiment or train an unknown power that you have no knowledge it not as simple as people making it seems, as it's basically toying with a bomb that can easily be set off (and as the series tends to show, you better have knowledge of the unknown, otherwise it'll bite you in the butt hard). Also, while it's true that Rean probably does needs to be calm, the situation isn't exactly letting him have time to even do that.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I'm sorry to say this but...while It's ok to love the game, maybe you guys should accept that CS2 have many flaws.

Ah ha sure but for some reason similar flaws gets ignored for previous 2 series.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Class VII always get saved/helped in important battle through out the game, they only managed to defeat trash mob and trash boss but they jobbed every time against anything else. It is not about how their "lost" can be explained or not, it's more about why the writer chose to make a story like this when there should be many better ways he could go with.

Magic Knights, Giant Boss Monsters, Cryptids are NOT trash mobs though. The only people they lost against are Ouroborus Members and High-level Jaegars. Oh and Rufus who is uber-powerful and manged to fool everyone in the entire game.

This isn't Naruto where they can beat everyone ignoring power levels. Like i said only the "Lacan scenario" applies and even the 1st 2 battles in Infernal Castle can be explained. The writers may not have chosen the best methods in all the scenarios but Class VII beating people from Ouroborus without much issues would be BS. This isn't a flaw but people exaggerate this way too much. There is always someone stronger and story showed this well.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Sky SC did it ways better. At the final dungeon , all of characters who were important went to explore final dungeon together. Then, you can choose who to bring with Estelle and Joshua. If you bring correct characters to correct boss fight (i.e. bring Oliver and Kloe to Bleublanc fight, bring Zin to Walter fight), your party will actually 'defeat' the boss. The bosses accepted their lost and escaped. There is a feel of accomplishment here.

For some reason Bleublanc is still around for 2 games despite being defeated.

Also Class VII had to face 2 bosses (minus Macburn)+Archaisms. Their enemy are so strong that even other powerful adults have trouble against them. Making them kneel and forcing them to go all out is already an accomplishment.

Also unlike SC, CS2 isn't the end of the series. Yes third exists but that's for Kevin. Estelle and Joshua's journey ended in SC so it makes sense for some fights to be resolved there. It also helps to keep unsettled scores for later games. So while it is frustrating, i don't find this to be so much of an issue or flaw.

Originally Posted by Marina2

In CS2 final dungeon, they could have let Class VII meet with those people who come to help them in the front of the tower ,recruit them into the party and go in together. Then the game can do something similar to Sky SC as I said in above paragraph. Instead, we got characters came out of nowhere at the right time to save them and the battle continue "elsewhere" with no actual conclusion to be seen.

No that would be dumb because those characters were busy with their own situation. They managed to arrive in convenient times but Class VII also manged to withstand the onslaught for some time before that. Also Class VII were pressed for time. The opponents aren't weak either so a stalemate makes sense.

The convenient timing is the only thing that you can actually complain about but that happened in Sky as well. Remember the final battle in FC or Walter's first encounter in SC........so it's either a flaw in all games or none at all. Your choice......

Originally Posted by Marina2

Also, story-wise, it feels like Class VII didn't realize that the task given to them is impossible. If no one come to save them, they would be dead. There is no plan B or whatever. Rean basically lead everyone to their death and everyone just mindlessly follow Rean. It is also funny that Rean gave those epic and motivate speeches before every fight and they still get defeated every time. Except with Vita and Clow fight, of course.

This is dumb, yeah i am sorry so say it like this, but this is really dumb and utterly biased.

Class VII knew the risk but they didn't have a choice. They had their scores to settle and they had to do something about the abnormal situation quickly. There was no contact with Olivier and co and the army was busy with Aurelia and Bardias. They knew they have to fight people who are much stronger than them and they managed to make everyone of them kneel. The managed to withstand their unexpected assaults well. They clearly said that they couldn't win against Macburn but they can force a path through him which they managed until he turned full demon. So i don't know how you made up this stuff up when the opposite is directly stated in-game.

The worse case scenario would be Rean, Sara, Fie, Laura and Valimar exhausting themselves..........they aren't so weak that they will die in 1-hit. Or a few members holding back the bosses while the rest went ahead.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Then, Rean should've spend a time to practice to control his power. At one point of CS2, he already managed to have a good control over his power. Why stop there? It's also very clear that Rean only went berserk when someone close to him was in danger. This means all he need to do is to train his mind to be able to clam down when that happened. He needs to learn to live with it not refuses it.

For all you said about liking the series, i guess you bias was too high to actually trying to understand the series.

Rean tried, he went to train in Eight-leaves style to control his power but it didn't work. No he had a certain amount of control, it leaves him exhausted after that which is a important point. The time limit actually makes sense.

Also did he have enough time? No it was one event to another non-stop with barely a few days to rest for them. People forget that CS2 takes place in a very small time frame, within 1-2 months. We don't have a time chamber like DBZ here.

You are forgetting something important. If it was Rean's natural ability he would have gotten used to it instinctively. If someone told him clearly or al least explained what his power was, he would have been able to do something about it. Macburn's "Feel it lol" doesn't work very well.

He loses complete control only when someone close to him is in danger but it also doesn't mean that he won't lose control when he is angry or feels utterly helpless....for example his heart starts to throb in critical situations or when other divergent being are close. He has already trained his mind that he can keep the power in check to a certain limit as already shown in CS1. If he didn't train his mind, he would have gone berserk in several situations and ended up as a Ouroborus member already considering all the situation that's happened. Rean is actually a quite calm person for all it's worth and when he gets angry he means it and the situation demands it.

There is always a chance that he may go fully out of control and kill his friends, family or someone else especially since it's a foreign power which kept getting stronger over the series. Fear of the unknown is a issue that you shouldn't think less of. People severely underestimate Rean's trauma as a child. Guess what happen in CS3? Rean's fear is finally confirmed and the adults are useless to help him.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Look, I have fun go around exploring the world. I like almost all characters and NPCs. The battle mechanics are interesting. BUT there is no way I will think the plot and storytelling in CS2 are good or make sense.

Dropping you bias could make it much more sensible though. I mean you already got several points wrong because you couldn't make sense of the situation.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Ah ha sure but for some reason similar flaws gets ignored for previous 2 series.

Maybe because previous 2 series have better ways to make those problems feel minor and not as glaring as CS?

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Magic Knights, Giant Boss Monsters, Cryptids are NOT trash mobs though. The only people they lost against are Ouroborus Members and High-level Jaegars. Oh and Rufus who is uber-powerful and manged to fool everyone in the entire game.

This isn't Naruto where they can beat everyone ignoring power levels. Like i said only the "Lacan scenario" applies and even the 1st 2 battles in Infernal Castle can be explained. The writers may not have chosen the best methods in all the scenarios but Class VII beating people from Ouroborus without much issues would be BS. This isn't a flaw but people exaggerate this way too much. There is always someone stronger and story showed this well.

@Infernal Castle , It makes Class VII 's involvement looks unnecessary. All those people who came to help them later are probably manage to finish the job if they form the party together. They might need Rean help for his divine knight but what about the rest of the class VII??

Also, It will be better if writer can at least change the detail of things around but all we got is the same pattern happened over and over. For example:

For the first chapter where you go find your classmate

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out they are holding back.
4) They get interrupted by random soldiers
5) ROBOT BATTLE!
6) The day is saved!

This repeated for 3 times

In final dungeon

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out that they are holding back.
4) Someone come to help them
5) Go to next floor

This repeated in every floors except top floor.

There are also the problems with "Won in battle ,but lost in cutscene" which are used too often in this game.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

For some reason Bleublanc is still around for 2 games despite being defeated.

Also Class VII had to face 2 bosses (minus Macburn)+Archaisms. Their enemy are so strong that even other powerful adults have trouble against them. Making them kneel and forcing them to go all out is already an accomplishment.

Also unlike SC, CS2 isn't the end of the series. Yes third exists but that's for Kevin. Estelle and Joshua's journey ended in SC so it makes sense for some fights to be resolved there. It also helps to keep unsettled scores for later games. So while it is frustrating, i don't find this to be so much of an issue or flaw.

In Sky , there are only 4 members in the party vs 1 boss + Archaisms....but ok, no complain here.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

No that would be dumb because those characters were busy with their own situation. They managed to arrive in convenient times but Class VII also manged to withstand the onslaught for some time before that. Also Class VII were pressed for time. The opponents aren't weak either so a stalemate makes sense.

The convenient timing is the only thing that you can actually complain about but that happened in Sky as well. Remember the final battle in FC or Walter's first encounter in SC........so it's either a flaw in all games or none at all. Your choice......

So you're saying that it is ok for writer to"conveniently" make them finish their business and come to save them in time. But it is too dumb to make them "conveniently" finish their business a bit earlier to meet them in front of tower?

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

This is dumb, yeah i am sorry so say it like this, but this is really dumb and utterly biased.

Class VII knew the risk but they didn't have a choice. They had their scores to settle and they had to do something about the abnormal situation quickly. There was no contact with Olivier and co and the army was busy with Aurelia and Bardias. They knew they have to fight people who are much stronger than them and they managed to make everyone of them kneel. The managed to withstand their unexpected assaults well. They clearly said that they couldn't win against Macburn but they can force a path through him which they managed until he turned full demon. So i don't know how you made up this stuff up when the opposite is directly stated in-game.

The worse case scenario would be Rean, Sara, Fie, Laura and Valimar exhausting themselves..........they aren't so weak that they will die in 1-hit. Or a few members holding back the bosses while the rest went ahead.

You know, If I am in Rean position, after the first floor I will start to think that:

"This is a bad plan. Our enemies are too strong for us. We can't be sure that someone will come to rescue us in time again next floor if we lose.

Maybe we should stop and ask or wait for reinforcement?? If Oliver can somehow came through the barrier door (that I need to call my robot to destroy...), someone else will definitely come soon. If we wait at the entrance of the 2nd floor, we will meet them and then we can go to challenge the floor bosses together. Or maybe I should try to ask Emma if it possible for her to teleport us into the upper floor"

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

For all you said about liking the series, i guess you bias was too high to actually trying to understand the series.

Flaws are flaws. I have never said Sky is flawless but it is ways less flawed and I am not only one person who think this.

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Rean tried, he went to train in Eight-leaves style to control his power but it didn't work. No he had a certain amount of control, it leaves him exhausted after that which is a important point. The time limit actually makes sense.

Also did he have enough time? No it was one event to another non-stop with barely a few days to rest for them. People forget that CS2 takes place in a very small time frame, within 1-2 months. We don't have a time chamber like DBZ here.

You are forgetting something important. If it was Rean's natural ability he would have gotten used to it instinctively. If someone told him clearly or al least explained what his power was, he would have been able to do something about it. Macburn's "Feel it lol" doesn't work very well.

He loses complete control only when someone close to him is in danger but it also doesn't mean that he won't lose control when he is angry or feels utterly helpless....for example his heart starts to throb in critical situations or when other divergent being are close. He has already trained his mind that he can keep the power in check to a certain limit as already shown in CS1. If he didn't train his mind, he would have gone berserk in several situations and ended up as a Ouroborus member already considering all the situation that's happened. Rean is actually a quite calm person for all it's worth and when he gets angry he means it and the situation demands it.

There is always a chance that he may go fully out of control and kill his friends, family or someone else especially since it's a foreign power which kept getting stronger over the series. Fear of the unknown is a issue that you shouldn't think less of. People severely underestimate Rean's trauma as a child. Guess what happen in CS3? Rean's fear is finally confirmed and the adults are useless to help him.

Dropping you bias could make it much more sensible though. I mean you already got several points wrong because you couldn't make sense of the situation.

Nah, if he trained his mind enough he should not feel sad or anger by "that" at all. (not sure you said about the same thing as I thought)

If he really "fear" his power will hurt other people, then it is even more make sense for him to learn to master his power by using it a lot so he can properly control it all the time and situation. Sorry, I might too hash for Rean here but his power is being used as plot device too much.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Maybe because previous 2 series have better ways to make those problems feel minor and not as glaring as CS?



@Infernal Castle , It makes Class VII 's involvement looks unnecessary. All those people who came to help them later are probably manage to finish the job if they form the party together. They might need Rean help for his divine knight but what about the rest of the class VII??

Also, It will be better if writer can at least change the detail of things around but all we got is the same pattern happened over and over. For example:

For the first chapter where you go find your classmate

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out they are holding back.
4) They get interrupted by random soldiers
5) ROBOT BATTLE!
6) The day is saved!

This repeated for 3 times

In final dungeon

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out that they are holding back.
4) Someone come to help them
5) Go to next floor

This repeated in every floors except top floor.

There are also the problems with "Won in battle ,but lost in cutscene" which are used too often in this game.



In Sky , there are only 4 members in the party vs 1 boss + Archaisms....but ok, no complain here.



So you're saying that it is ok for writer to"conveniently" make them finish their business and come to save them in time. But it is too dumb to make them "conveniently" finish their business a bit earlier to meet them in front of tower?



You know, If I am in Rean position, after the first floor I will start to think that:

"This is a bad plan. Our enemies are too strong for us. We can't be sure that someone will come to rescue us in time again next floor if we lost again.

Maybe we should stop and ask or wait for reinforcement?? If Oliver can somehow came through the barrier door (that I need to call my robot to destroy...), someone else will definitely come soon. If we wait at the entrance of the 2nd floor, we will meet them and then we can go to challenge the floor bosses together. Or maybe I should try to ask Emma if it possible for her to teleport us into the upper floor"





Flaws are flaws. I have never said Sky is flawless but it is ways less flawed and I am not only one person who think this.



Nah, if he trained his mind enough he should not feel sad or anger by "that" at all. (not sure you said about the same thing as I thought)

If he really "fear" his power will hurt other people, then it is even more make sense for him to learn to master his power by using it a lot so he can properly control it all the time and situation. Sorry, I might too hash for Rean here but his power is being used as plot device too much.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it's him using his power a lot that screwing him up in the first place?

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Marina2

@Infernal Castle , It makes Class VII 's involvement looks unnecessary. All those people who came to help them later are probably manage to finish the job if they form the party together. They might need Rean help for his divine knight but what about the rest of the class VII??

Holding up the other mobs? Like the NPC did in CS3?

In Sky , there are only 4 members in the party vs 1 boss + Archaisms....but ok, no complain here.

And who are the party members there? Full grown adult or ex Ouroboros members.

Here? Students. Who is only in their first years.

So you're saying that it is ok for writer to"conveniently" make them finish their business and come to save them in time. But it is too dumb to make them "conveniently" finish their business a bit earlier to meet them in front of tower?

Because logically, it makes more sense for them to come in later than the party when the party is already close to the Tower in the first place?

I mean, Olivier probably had to check on the Imperial Family, Toval with the Bracer Guild, Victor with Legram, Claire with the remnants of the Imperial Army and the RPD, Sharon with the Reinfordt.

You know, If I am in Rean position, after the first floor I will start to think that:

"This is a bad plan. Our enemies are too strong for us. We can't be sure that someone will come to rescue us in time again next floor if we lose.

Maybe we should stop and ask or wait for reinforcement?? If Oliver can somehow came through the barrier door (that I need to call my robot to destroy...), someone else will definitely come soon. If we wait at the entrance of the 2nd floor, we will meet them and then we can go to challenge the floor bosses together. Or maybe I should try to ask Emma if it possible for her to teleport us into the upper floor"

1st: Reinforcements from when and where? How do you call them when they're either busy or not calleable?

2nd: Rean destroyed the barrier door, thus making it weak enough for others to come in. And how would he know that someone else will definitely come soon? He can't contact anyone, remember?

3rd: Okay, let's wait. In this Eldritch looking place. Who knows what would it do to us? And what's stopping the mobs from swarming them while they wait, thus weakening them even further?

4fh: Emma has only recently learned the teleport spells. She isn't a master at it. Asking her to teleport to the upper part is stretching it, especially in this weird place.

Nah, if he trained his mind enough he should not feel sad or anger by "that" at all. (not sure you said about the same thing as I thought)

If he really "fear" his power will hurt other people, then it is even more make sense for him to learn to master his power by using it a lot so he can properly control it all the time and situation. Sorry, I might too hash for Rean here but his power is being used as plot device too much.

... What.

Fucking What.

What the actual fucking...

I'm guessing you haven't actually read one bit of spoiler for CS 3 then.

Spoiler for Because let's see YOU not feel sad or anger:

When one your close friend took the shot for you. Because of your father stupid plan. Which has been fucking your life up for a few years.

Here's what has been confirmed in CS3:

- Rean's power is fucking his health up. To the point that he needed someone else's help to calm it down. Whenever he tried to use it, somebody in his party would inevitably get worried.

- Rean has been getting into conflicts around Erebonia because of his father. Which means that he has no time to actually learn more about his power.

Also, who's going to teach him? The people who know more - McBurn, his father - probably won't, while the others can only offer general advices - like reins in your anger, etc - which won't help much when things keep piling up.

Seriously, I fully admit that CS have flaws - the harem aspect wasn't done well, Rean and Crow's bromance feels forced, the repetitions in CS2 - but the part about Rean's anxiety over his power is one that isn't when you consider what happen in CS3.

Hell, the other places I visited stopped giving shit to Rean about his power when they see what the fuck happens when Rean finally goes out of control. (Including 4chan) They gave him shit about other things - like the headpat, the harem thing - but not really about his power anymore.

[dniv]

Lol just going to put out there that I love all three series and have played through all of them except Ao. Everyone that plays only part of a game and doesn't finish should stop trying to judge especially when they don't play through the climax. The ost, actual dialogue and gameplay are what make this series good in the first place. Skip it, and your opinion loses a lot of credibility. I'm sorry.

Like literally ... the first game FC sounds super generic if you try to explain to someone else what happens. It isn't necessarily about what happens, but how it happened and how the game handled it that made it incredible. The same goes for Zero and the same goes for Sen no kiseki games.

I think SC by far has the best scenes in the series other than zero. The SC final castle counterpart to CS II was much better. CS II's was also great, but keep in mind it's only halfway through the CS quartet so this is fine that it wasn't that good while for SC it was the climax of that story so of course it was handled way better. ... and yes, I expect the story to handle it well in CS IV and make me like whatever happens.

Also, to answer the hate towards how class vii kept on losing in CS II, I'd say this is reasonable because the sen quartet has way more content than the sky trilogy did. If you think about it carefully, the third game in the sky trilogy, while it was awesome, it was basically sorta unrelated to the others in a sense. On the other hand, sen III is very much an extension of Sen I and II because lots of plot threads haven't been resolved yet while third chapter was pretty much a self-contained story. CS IV is also going to be a game that continues the threads from Sen I, II, and III.

Edit: and yes, Rean's anxiety over his power is totally justified. Look at CS III lololol.

[Rinvelt]

>played CS3
>didn't play Ao

What the hell are you doing on this thread, go play now!

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Rinvelt

>played CS3
>didn't play Ao

What the hell are you doing on this thread, go play now!

I'm waiting for the good translation to come out lol. It should be out in about a month I think finally all edited. They finished translating it like two or three weeks ago. So it shouldn't be too long. I'm really excited. I promise. I'm planning on finishing Ao before finishing the CS II I bought on steam. I already saw a full LP of it though, but I wanted to play it for myself too since it's sorta like a NG + that way.

Unfortunately, I already know a bit about Ao, but luckily there's plenty of stuff I don't know and in the end these games are good because of how things happen lol. So I don't expect to lose much enjoyment. ~ Actually, I see it as a good way to get some good dramatic tension.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Marina2

Maybe because previous 2 series have better ways to make those problems feel minor and not as glaring as CS?

Maybe it's glaring in your head or because people just want to find non-existent faults. Because it sure didn't feel that way to me and i have been playing JRPGs for a long time.

Originally Posted by Marina2

@Infernal Castle, It makes Class VII 's involvement looks unnecessary. All those people who came to help them later are probably manage to finish the job if they form the party together. They might need Rean help for his divine knight but what about the rest of the class VII??

No whatever they do, they will do as a group/team/classmates/friends. It was their consensus.

Rean/Laura/Fie/Sara have personal stakes/involvements and the people that came later couldn't beat the bad guys either showcasing just how powerful they are.

Nice way to miss the obivous.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Also, It will be better if writer can at least change the detail of things around but all we got is the same pattern happened over and over. For example:

For the first chapter where you go find your classmate

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out they are holding back.
4) They get interrupted by random soldiers
5) ROBOT BATTLE!
6) The day is saved!

This repeated for 3 times

In final dungeon

1) Meet enemy
2) fight them
3) Think you defeated them then found out that they are holding back.
4) Someone come to help them
5) Go to next floor

This repeated in every floors except top floor.

There are also the problems with "Won in battle ,but lost in cutscene" which are used too often in this game.

Oh hey look it the similar pattern as in Sky.

FC:

Go journey to new town on foot because training.
Find Proferssor X in the tower during the journey.
Do some quests and stuff.
Get involved in some trouble/sketchy issues.
Solves the issue halfway and the guild takes care of the rest.

Let's forget the ex-enforcer bodyguard shall we?


SC:

Repeat step 1,3,4,5 from above

Fight some trash mobs and beat the trash bosses (lol).
Finght a enforcer-level boss and gets saved (Zane)
Or the Boss leaves (See you next time lol)


Tower Battles

They did not win even one of them even with A/B Rank Bracers and ex-Enforcer.

The Boss leaves again(See you next time lol)


Pretty sure Ao have similar patterns as well. This is something that always happens in jrpgs.....so either complain about it for all games instead of singling one out. This is simply nitpicking on your part.

Originally Posted by Marina2

4 members in the party vs 1 boss + Archaisms....but ok, no complain here.

2 Bosses + Upgraded Archaisms >>>> 1 Boss + Archaisms/Dogs

Still 4 members can be used at the same time

The bosses and archaism are more powerful than before.

Macburn is more powerful than Leonhardt ---> Fact

So yeah stop underestimating the bosses in CS.

Originally Posted by Marina2

So you're saying that it is ok for writer to"conveniently" make them finish their business and come to save them in time. But it is too dumb to make them "conveniently" finish their business a bit earlier to meet them in front of tower?

They were able to finish/postpone their buisness because of the events here. Bardias and Aurelia pulled back leaving more breathing space on the western side. Olivier probabaly guessed that something could happen in the capital and hurried on. The appearnace of the infernal castle made it top priority for everyone instead of the in-fighting.

So yeah it make sense and what you are proposing is dumb.

Originally Posted by Marina2

You know, If I am in Rean position, after the first floor I will start to think that:

"This is a bad plan. Our enemies are too strong for us. We can't be sure that someone will come to rescue us in time again next floor if we lose.

Maybe we should stop and ask or wait for reinforcement?? If Oliver can somehow came through the barrier door (that I need to call my robot to destroy...), someone else will definitely come soon. If we wait at the entrance of the 2nd floor, we will meet them and then we can go to challenge the floor bosses together. Or maybe I should try to ask Emma if it possible for her to teleport us into the upper floor"

Great way to make dumb points by ignoring the whole situation. There is no guarantee that reinforcements can arrive or not. The outside wasn't free if you remember.

Wasting time is only going to make the situation much worse. They had no choice but to push forward despite the risk. Like i said before, they managed to beat the bosses before they get a second wind. Class VII is a strong enough threat for them.

Simply turning back like cowards or waiting for people while the situation gets worse isn't their style. Olivier also told them to hurry before explaining too much as they were pressed for time.

Even for the barrier, Victor must have brute forced it or Sharon temporarily disabled it but Class VII had no way of doing that.


In SC, the party barely managed to beat the bosses and still pushed on. Even if they won, your same logic/complain can be applied there as well.

"Why don't we get our full party and face the bosses EVEN THOUGH we couldn't scratch them before? Oh we have to look cool that why......" (FC/SC)

Surely we don't need more than half party members to make bases and whatever.

See what bias does. If this is an issue in CS, it's an issue in Sky as well. "They did it better" is only an opinion not a fact.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Flaws are flaws. I have never said Sky is flawless but it is ways less flawed and I am not only one person who think this.

But you surely made excuses in the pretense of "they did it better". You really should check what you write as half of it just self-made flaws that doesn't even exist.

Originally Posted by Marina2

Nah, if he trained his mind enough he should not feel sad or anger by "that" at all. (not sure you said about the same thing as I thought)

If he really "fear" his power will hurt other people, then it is even more make sense for him to learn to master his power by using it a lot so he can properly control it all the time and situation. Sorry, I might too hash for Rean here but his power is being used as plot device too much.

Wow just wow.

Are you saying he should not be angry or panic when his little sister is about to be killed by a monster or crushed by a giant dullahan?

Or he should be completely calm after seeing his parents in a pool of blood?

Because that's retarded.

I mean he managing to calm himself in the schooldhouse in CS1 already disproves your point.

Let's consider his situation.

He found out that he can massacare a giant beast with little to no effort and he may or may not have control over this unknown power. That as a kid of 9-10 years. His eight-leaves training didn't help either and had to be cut short.

His family and friend were kind but it's true in a way that the other nobles shunned them for adopting a child of unknown origin. Going by how noble society works, they probably talked while Rean was around in some get together or party.

Considering all this contributing to his low-self esteem he is still modest and calm enough instead of being some emo teenager.

It's a power that he no knowledge of and not his natural inborn power either. It's not something that a little training can take care of.


Rean is a fast learner as we have seen.

- He is good enough to be in the top 10/100 of the school.
- He got used to the bike quickly.
- His training was only cut short because he was unable to move past the fear. Master Ka-fai thinks of him as one of his most potential students. And Rean can use techniques of several styles.
- Fought with Valimar using his own no-armed techniques first and later used a normal sword which isn't much compatible with his style.
- He managed to come close to being equal to Sara without Orge powers.
- He managed to get used to one of Sharon's chains quickly which she praised. And Sharon is probaly stronger than Joshua.
- CS3 Rean managed to beat Bardias and even Aurelia with Orge powers.

Well the fact is that if some simple training could have helped him to overcome and control the foreign and unknown power inside him then it would have already happened. But sadly it's not that simple. Simply knowing something about the power would have helped, you can't fire a gun without knowing anything about it. First-timers will get stuck on the safety and misfire it and hurt themselves/someone.

No you are being blatantly unfair to Rean here. His fear and trauma related his powers is an actual issue and his powers having a time limit makes sense considering the exhaustion and unknown factor that somes with using it too much so it's better as a last resort. It's even more reflected in the next game and just proved that how much Rean was right about being afraid and not overusing his power. It's a fact that during the course of the story Rean's thinking has been proven right again and again.

Also most people miss a cetain point, Rean isn't overly reliant on this power or Valimar. He is strong enough on his own and he trained hard for it. His power actually has more negative effects in his life. This already gets him a plus in my book consireing we have so many protagonists who are just special because the narrative tells you so.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

1st: Reinforcements from when and where? How do you call them when they're either busy or not calleable?

2nd: Rean destroyed the barrier door, thus making it weak enough for others to come in. And how would he know that someone else will definitely come soon? He can't contact anyone, remember?

3rd: Okay, let's wait. In this Eldritch looking place. Who knows what would it do to us? And what's stopping the mobs from swarming them while they wait, thus weakening them even further?

4fh: Emma has only recently learned the teleport spells. She isn't a master at it. Asking her to teleport to the upper part is stretching it, especially in this weird place.

Reinforcemnet from outside the tower. There are many people fighting outside of the tower. If someone manage to break the barrier and come in, it not hard to consider that some other people might follow. The first floor has the safe area that other party members are waiting. Rean and his team can come back here for regroup via the device and go up again.

I do know what happended in the ending of CS3

Spoiler for CS3 ending:

With how everything went wrong due to Rean went berserk, killed that thing and released the curse uppon the land. It is very hard to not feel sorry for him. While there are something I don't like about Rean's character, I still wish he will get happpy ending in CS4

EDIT:

@Dragon_Slayer_X

Ok, Points taken.

[Marx-93]

As a note, Rean trying to master the ogre power through mental strength is the reason why he learned the 'eight leaves one blade style'. He has been at it for near 8 years.

It simply won't work, and the reason is clear at the intermission. Rean's ogre power is as much a part of himself as any, it's literally his heart. You can't control your emotions, in a similar way to how you do a blade or any other powers. It just makes you repress yourself and see yourself as an object, which is exactly Rean's major problem (how he considers himself completely expendable). Rean controls his power as much as he is able to control himself emotionally (with a slight increase when he accepts himself and as he gets more experience), and there's simply no way to change that. And the game insists on screwing up Rean emotionally on a daily basis, so there's never any point where he can really get a break (also, besides the ending, Sen III also confirms that Rean's ogre power can screw him when he overuses it even if he doesn't go berserk, which is exactly what Rean believed).

Now, besides that, I do agree that Cold Steel hides its flaw a little worse than the Sky games. I love the new things they try and the new themes though, so for me it's a bit net gain. Likewise, it's fine for people to dislike it, no need to be so defensive about it.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Well every medium has it's flaws but what i wanted to say was how people exaggarate those flaws unfairly when it comes to CS and Rean and excuse them for something they liked. Take for example Sky or Ao. Comparing games will only takes the fun out of them tbh.

Sure CS has it's issues, it's not perfect, many things could have been done better. But except for a few, most of the events make sense, as frustating as it maybe. And it ties properly with the next game. Useless Professor X and dead-but-body-disaappearing Ozzy delivered a good amount of shock in their respective series.

Honeslty i like both series, but the blatant unfairness towards CS games gets me annoyed and kind of diminished my interest in Crossbell games. Apologies for the harsh words.

Well putting that aside, is there any chance for combination crafts in CS4? This is such a wasted potential and since they already have those in Ao games, they couid have added those in CS as well considering how the group becomes fire-forged friends.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Well every medium has it's flaws but what i wanted to say was how people exaggarate those flaws unfairly when it comes to CS and Rean and excuse them for something they liked. Take for example Sky or Ao. Comparing games will only takes the fun out of them tbh.

Sure CS has it's issues, it's not perfect, many things could have been done better. But except for a few, most of the events make sense, as frustating as it maybe. And it ties properly with the next game. Useless Professor X and dead-but-body-disaappearing Ozzy delivered a good amount of shock in their respective series.

Honeslty i like both series, but the blatant unfairness towards CS games gets me annoyed and kind of diminished my interest in Crossbell games. Apologies for the harsh words.

Well putting that aside, is there any chance for combination crafts in CS4? This is such a wasted potential and since they already have those in Ao games, they couid have added those in CS as well considering how the group becomes fire-forged friends.

Oh, I recommend you try the crossbell games. They feel like a really unique experience in the series tbh. I really like them. I also like CS a lot, lol. I think Zero is my favorite game in the franchise though so far... that or CSIII.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by dniv

Oh, I recommend you try the crossbell games. They feel like a really unique experience in the series tbh. I really like them. I also like CS a lot, lol. I think Zero is my favorite game in the franchise though so far... that or CSIII.

Oh don't get me wrong, i plan to play the games after it's get a good port and localization.........preferably by XSeed. I already have a large backlog along with several mobile games though.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Well putting that aside, is there any chance for combination crafts in CS4? This is such a wasted potential and since they already have those in Ao games, they couid have added those in CS as well considering how the group becomes fire-forged friends.

I think we already have enough advantage over enemies with current battle mechanics.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I think we already have enough advantage over enemies with current battle mechanics.

You do remember that the ennemies can pull the "S-Craft OBJECTION!!!!" in CS3, correct?

Plus, combination Craft could be a narrative add on - showing the strong bonds between characters.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Marina2

I think we already have enough advantage over enemies with current battle mechanics.

Your REALLY love you complaining don't you?

You have been given options and you can use them. Spare me the "Game is too easy" crap. Maybe try playing the game by setting some self-imposed standards and enjoy it instead of looking for faults.


Also adding combination crafts will only add more damage for cost i.e. it could be 100/200 CP from both characters. I only want it as a "Rule of cool" tbh and only asked because CS3 has some pretty cool attacks during Mecha battles and CS2 had that one combination in the end. Also it will fit with the narrative.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by Dragon_Slayer_X

Your REALLY love you complaining don't you?

You have been given options and you can use them. Spare me the "Game is too easy" crap. Maybe try playing the game by setting some self-imposed standards and enjoy it instead of looking for faults.


Also adding combination crafts will only add more damage for cost i.e. it could be 100/200 CP from both characters. I only want it as a "Rule of cool" tbh and only asked because CS3 has some pretty cool attacks during Mecha battles and CS2 had that one combination in the end. Also it will fit with the narrative.

How did you even think that was a complain anyway?? I just answered you normally. That was very normal tone answer. Look, I know that you hate me after our previous "discussion" but do you really need to antagonize me and think that I am looking for a fight every time I answer to you?

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

My dear sir, you could have answered simply with a "We don't need any more mechanics" as a very very normal answer though.

Was there really a need to take a dig at the game again? When the question i asked could be answered with a simple "Yes" or "No".