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[allfictions]

Originally Posted by dniv

Also, Mikoto is also an important and relevant character. Yes you all hate her, that doesn't mean she isn't still one of the main heroines Touma might end up with. And it also doesn't mean that she won't learn about magic soon enough, and it also doesn't mean that she's a side character. She is one of the main character. You guys should seriously complain about any main character being included in the plot. They're main characters for a reason. Kamachi can and should put them in if he wants to.

Dniv, I think what you need to understand is that, even if Kamachi is an amazing writer, even if he knows where he is going, and even if the universe he crafted is his to use, he is constrained by the one thing that limit authors of long running series: his own fanbase. No matter what plot he thinks of, he is obligated, at least subconciously, more often than not by executive meddling, to incorporate elements that will please and appease them, for fear that it will affect negatively the sales.

A capricious public is really the thing that endanger an artist's creativity, as he is forced to modify his vision if he doesn't want to lose his readers. This is especially worser in Japan than in western countries, where mangakas and LN writers alike have ridiculous deadlines to respect, have to compete to do better sales than their neighbor, and always at risk of getting replaced by a younger, more ambitious newcomers. Just how many good mangas keep getting axed because of fans losing interest, just how many once good series turn to crap because of going long past where the author intended it to stop but the fans want to keep it running?

Fanbase brought back Sherlock Holmes, fanbase axed Mx0, fanbase keep HST (holy shonen trinity) running. Thinking that fan preferrence does not affect an author's writing process is ridiculous.

Why am I saying all this? Because I'm tired of the same argument I have seen you and others like Kenju of the Right bring up each time one of the character is criticized: Kamachi knows what he is doing, he wrote it so it is good, etc. I have nothing against you (or against Kenju for that matter), it's just that I find this particular argument silly. Of course Kamachi knows what he is doing. Doesn't mean that he can't be hand tied about how he writes his characters into the situations he originally thought up. You do know that Mikoto is extremely popular, right? How she takes so much preeminence in marketing and merchandising of the series? IMO, Kamachi is backed into a corner with Mikoto. He can no longer write one novel without her appearing and having more than one line, lest some fans goes into an uproar. Even when he has no use for Mikoto to appear, he is obligated to do so, that's what fans demand and will keep them from flunking the sales. Heck, his own editor is enamoured with the character, calling her the Princess of Dengeki and somesuch. It's like how certain girls in harem series end up supplanting the main heroines in appearances because they are more popular with the readers: Kamachi has to modify his original plan to ensure that Mikoto stays here as an immutable element (whether or not the story comes out lesser than imagined is known only to the man himself)

And no, don't take this as me hating Mikoto. I like Mikoto, I genuinely want her to be more invested in the Magic Side, and I'm not at all against the thought of her ending up with Touma. But I can aknowledge that she is annoying and has to get out of the front scene to let place to other characters that got left behind in the wake of NT.

As a final point, I can't help but notice that many of us here, me especially included, are narrow minded or downright hostile to criticism of ToAru. We need to change that kind of attitude if we want to be respected as a fanbase.

(grammatical errors are due to me writting all of this on my phone, don't try this at home, it is a pain)

[OH&S]

^

Sometimes you really outdo yourself with your posts. But I agree with what you have said. As a fanbase, we need to learn to identify what in the franchise is worth defending, what are the flaws and what needs improvement as well as communicating with others about these issues. As long as we are courteous and open minded to the views of others and can maintain our calm while having civil discussions with people who are of a different opinion... we can at least stall our eventual degradation to the same state as other jaded fanbases out there.

(Also none of the above applies when dealing with Railgun-anime-only fans.)

[desrtsku]

Yep, yep, allfiction made a good. Which is somehow not untied with what I'd like to say to Lelouch and Miraluka. Mainly :

Spoiler for I'm not even complaining though:

Also, I don't get why people keep on saying that it's totally ok if Accel doesn't participate in real story cause he's got his own manga. No, it's still a catastrophe for fans.

That's really simple, and I don't even need to say this because you said it yourself "fans certainly wants it", but just like allfiction did say I don't think it's necessarily what Kamachi wants.
I'm not even complaining btw, the guy is easily one of my top 3 favourite characters in this series. He's still a deuteragonist of the novels, fine by me if it doesn't affect the other MC ; He disappears from the spotlight for 6 volumes (currently 2 or 3 now), fine by me as long as he gets laid does something major in the spin-off.

And I don't see why Hamazura's more important and secondary than Accel.

Where does this come from? Didn't I clearly imply they were equal in my post? (which is one of the basis of my arguments btw.)

Having Accelerator out of screen also was one of the reasons why the number for the last NT volume wasn't that high.

Unrelated, but is there even a legit proof to back up that statement?

MC isn't the same as protagonist which Accel is.

Also unrelated, but while protagonist isn't exactly equal to MC -depending on where you look at-, a protagonist is still a MC. Or to be more accurate being a protagonist is a subset of being a MC. And if we go further into technical details, Accel only effectively held the status of "protagonist of TAMNI" from vol 12 to NT3. However, NT4-NT9 aren't really that centred around him or Hamazura anymore. In which case calling him just "MC" in general is actually more than fine -if you look at the big picture-.
Just my autism though, don't mind it.

Accel's manga is still an amount of past events. It doesn't affect the present story.

Also unrelated, but damn, just who do you even think Kamachi is? Guy has a disease that makes him want everything to be canon and tied to the main story. Just saying though.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Dniv, I think what you need to understand is that, even if Kamachi is an amazing writer, even if he knows where he is going, and even if the universe he crafted is his to use, he is constrained by the one thing that limit authors of long running series: his own fanbase. No matter what plot he thinks of, he is obligated, at least subconciously, more often than not by executive meddling, to incorporate elements that will please and appease them, for fear that it will affect negatively the sales.

A capricious public is really the thing that endanger an artist's creativity, as he is forced to modify his vision if he doesn't want to lose his readers. This is especially worser in Japan than in western countries, where mangakas and LN writers alike have ridiculous deadlines to respect, have to compete to do better sales than their neighbor, and always at risk of getting replaced by a younger, more ambitious newcomers. Just how many good mangas keep getting axed because of fans losing interest, just how many once good series turn to crap because of going long past where the author intended it to stop but the fans want to keep it running?

Fanbase brought back Sherlock Holmes, fanbase axed Mx0, fanbase keep HST (holy shonen trinity) running. Thinking that fan preferrence does not affect an author's writing process is ridiculous.

Why am I saying all this? Because I'm tired of the same argument I have seen you and others like Kenju of the Right bring up each time one of the character is criticized: Kamachi knows what he is doing, he wrote it so it is good, etc. I have nothing against you (or against Kenju for that matter), it's just that I find this particular argument silly. Of course Kamachi knows what he is doing. Doesn't mean that he can't be hand tied about how he writes his characters into the situations he originally thought up. You do know that Mikoto is extremely popular, right? How she takes so much preeminence in marketing and merchandising of the series? IMO, Kamachi is backed into a corner with Mikoto. He can no longer write one novel without her appearing and having more than one line, lest some fans goes into an uproar. Even when he has no use for Mikoto to appear, he is obligated to do so, that's what fans demand and will keep them from flunking the sales. Heck, his own editor is enamoured with the character, calling her the Princess of Dengeki and somesuch. It's like how certain girls in harem series end up supplanting the main heroines in appearances because they are more popular with the readers: Kamachi has to modify his original plan to ensure that Mikoto stays here as an immutable element (whether or not the story comes out lesser than imagined is known only to the man himself)

And no, don't take this as me hating Mikoto. I like Mikoto, I genuinely want her to be more invested in the Magic Side, and I'm not at all against the thought of her ending up with Touma. But I can aknowledge that she is annoying and has to get out of the front scene to let place to other characters that got left behind in the wake of NT.

As a final point, I can't help but notice that many of us here, me especially included, are narrow minded or downright hostile to criticism of ToAru. We need to change that kind of attitude if we want to be respected as a fanbase.

(grammatical errors are due to me writting all of this on my phone, don't try this at home, it is a pain)

I agree with everything you've said. I understand that Kamachi is forced to write Mikoto in, but I've just been saying that I mostly enjoy when he does write her in... I don't think he's doing it that poorly at all, especially with his improvisation.

Also, the fact that fans control the fate of a series is saddening to me though I respect Kamachi because he seems to be much more liberal in that regard i.e. with pissing off fans which he purposely did this volume with Accelerator/Mikoto.

I don't like thinking about fans affecting the series at all because that's why I personally have been annoyed at other shows like Attack on Titan, Madoka, Sword Art Online, etc... they are very popular and they are also good; however, they have so many more fans because of their exposure and because a lot of people who see this series don't stick through the beginning, and miss the beautiful idea there. I was just rewatching seasons 1 and 2 of Index, and it is much better than I remembered honestly. I'm really enjoying it. I really think that this series deserves more fans so this problem doesn't happen, but it's an LN series without a huge cast of very hot female characters and it is too complicated for a lot of the people who just like clean cut good/evil shonen, so it suffers from the lack of popularity.

It bothers me, and it's annoying, but it is the way it is. I'm hoping something will change eventually because I really respect Kamachi's writing style. Regardless, I believe his planning skills actually have been phenomenal, and even if I criticize people for criticizing his writing ability I feel like I'm entirely justified in doing so. He has delivered with extremely high quality works almost every time and the overall quality of his work has been increasing with his ideas becoming more and more interesting over time. It suffices to say that the lack of trust in what he does rightly annoys me because the fans who say he is going to mess up say so every time, and they really should just stop. He's clearly not going to at this point; he said as much in A first or last story SS. Also, there's been some miscommunication. I didn't say Kamachi's past performance means he isn't tied to writing a certain way; I'm saying his past performance means that whatever he writes whether or not he's tied will most likely be amazing.

The one big thing I want to point out about criticism of Toaru. I'll buy it when I see some legitimate criticism. Almost all of the criticism I have seen of it involves either criticism of something that J.C. staff bungled up or something that's false and would be revealed if people just watched a little farther. Maybe one problem for some people is that the series doesn't hook them eventually and they don't give it a chance. I realize some people also don't like this sort of series, and they want a short series. I really enjoy this huge fictional world though. I also think that it just depends on whether you are willing to give something long a chance or not.

Sure, the series isn't perfect... but I, personally, don't find anything wrong with it. I'm fine with accepting criticism of the series. I've never said I'm not fine with it. I just want very clearly elaborated points that are well though out so I can have a constructive discussion about it. If one side is saying it's good and one side is saying it's bad and both sides are giving terrible, vague reasons, then the point of having a forum is pointless in the first place. This is why I hope people can actually really give some thought into their opinions, and be willing to compromise, give up some ground.

In most cases of criticism of the franchise it is probably legitimate for us to be in the right because we know a lot of details people who criticize the series don't. Though, in the cases where people criticizing are right, or justified in having their opinions, I don't mind. I just want a clear explanation...

I also agree about Mikoto. But hopefully we'll see more of the others soon enough. I have a feeling it'll happen too. If the Kamijou faction manifests itself we're definitely sure to see other characters coming in to the picture. I thought NT 8 actually did a pretty good job of that. Yes, Mikoto was in it, but we saw a lot of older characters including Orianna which was very nice.

We can't fix the situation, so he can just either make his books like twice as long and have some Mikoto and other characters, or he can just have other characters + Mikoto appear or he can just ditch part of the fanbase. He gets to choose, he is the author after all. It's obviously a very difficult choice here.

Originally Posted by OH&S

^

Sometimes you really outdo yourself with your posts. But I agree with what you have said. As a fanbase, we need to learn to identify what in the franchise is worth defending, what are the flaws and what needs improvement as well as communicating with others about these issues. As long as we are courteous and open minded to the views of others and can maintain our calm while having civil discussions with people who are of a different opinion... we can at least stall our eventual degradation to the same state as other jaded fanbases out there.

(Also none of the above applies when dealing with Railgun-anime-only fans.)

Lol to your last statement, but you should also change that slightly. It's not like all Railgun-anime-only fans know about Index or think it is bad. It's only extremists that tend to give the series a somewhat bad name by liking the 4 main girls of Railgun a little too much... Though to everyone his/her own.

We need to respect other opinions, but I just want a discussion, not two sides saying this is bad, this is good. Though I really appreciate the thoughtful posts both of you gave. And I don't think we'll be jaded... I loved last volume and have loved every proceeding volume even more. I've also been getting more people into the series, so I have some hope. I already got at least 3 new LN readers in the past month.

[Lulu Vie Britania]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Because even in the War Accel tried to block an attack with his right hand?

And why the hell you guys immediately got to think that Accel copies Touma's actions BECAUSE OF THAT? He tried to block the attack with his right hand because Touma blocks shit with his right hand. He had no thought what that attack was so he decided to follow one person's example- the hand that negates everything. Maybe he was sure in his mind that this act will prevent him from being hit by unknown attack.
And one of his hand was disabled to act cause he was holding LO. It could be a coincidence. I know you like the thought of fangirling Accelerator; but that time he had his own twisted philosophy.
By the way, you're stating that all his good actions were nothing but copying Touma?
Let's think deeply; He said himself uncountable number of times that he can't be a good person/a hero; he is a villain and doesn't have to do good. That he has no chance to change himself, his way. Why would he imitate Touma? It's rude towards Accel to call his actions based on his own decision and will the imitation of Touma's behaviour. Remember his behaviour after the situation with Misuzu. He went on to protect her not because he remembered one certain person. He wanted to do it.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Not at all, in NT7 he said he will do his work before AC darkness starts messing around with him because he was fine with how things were, that's why he did his homework and ended in the gathering of Level 5's.

He didn't say it. He said that it was funny if the enemies thought he wouldn't act if things don't affect sisters or his loved ones. And the second reason for him was attacking things before they start to mess with him. Yes, it was a reason, but it was a second reason. He's allowed to want to help people and himself at the same time. "Then again..." - remember? First he things about dark side affecting the city; secondly he thinks about his own inconvenience. I don't think he would avoid helping someone after he honestly admitted he wants to help if he has a change.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by dniv

Also, the fact that fans control the fate of a series is saddening to me though I respect Kamachi because he seems to be much more liberal in that regard i.e. with pissing off fans which he purposely did this volume with Accelerator/Mikoto.

It might be look as if pissing off the fans but its just a plain tease but it still won't hurt the overall darn cult of kamikoto fans. They are so darn strong they are probably the majority that buys the merchandise but even if they are die hard fans its still doesn't mean some of them are neutral in the story.

But let tell you this. Kamachi might look free in his writing style but I still think he is restrain to please his fans. a.k.a. mikoto fans.

I don't know if you read it or heard of it. Its around before WWIII arc where the fans keep asking when will Mikoto appear in the novel. Its around Index I season I think and the start or probably during railgun season 1 times. its just annoying when people keep asking when will she appear on the novel even though she already has her own show and manga.

And look at what happen in WW III?

she appears in between the lines.

Look at what happen in NT series?

She become almost a regular or she is frequent in it.

heck, I still can't picture her as more important or much more reliable than Accelerator.

I just like Accelerator more than Mikoto and if its overall use or potential. I would like to see Accelerator shine more.

Or Mugino

Or Hamazura

Or Kanzaki

Or Itsuwa XD

there are lots of interesting characters that need more screen time that I still find it disturbing for Mikoto to join the fray.

Isn't she the public image of academy city? she was introduce as a level 1 that work HARD to become level 5 (yeh right -_-)

If its the magic conflict I still think the way they do before where the magic side magicians help deal with it is better than Mikoto being force into the role.

or at least Accelerator or Mugino. Both are tainted in the darkness of the city. It's not surprising to see them do dirty work.

well nuff said. I still need more work to do. Darn summer and darn pile of works.

[Birdway]

And guess what? She still has no clue about magic! More than being involved with the magic side she is involved with Touma's business that happens to be the magic side because tailing him around the city isn't enough anymore ... Or even more, stillshe has no clue about the truth behind her "hard work" and despite I think Railgun current arc is very good Mikoto lost her protagonism leaving it to Misaki for the time being due to her being the victim of the plot, not like I'm complaining I got Gunha + Touma combo and Misaki being awesome .

Oh yeah, her role against on WWII was almost a joke, it was like saying "Holy Shit! She saved Fiamma of the Right froma a nuke of all things!" . Someone said that about prevening Nikolai from sweating or something like that .

[LG-MAX]

Well, what really bothers me is that Kamachi clearly does not want to Mikoto learn about magic, I say this because at all times when not even like her get away with it, he gets rid of the girl, just remember how it rid her just at the most important moment in the fight against Freyia(explanation of the evil fetus) or she is the only person there in sargasso not know what is happening, this is annoying.

Oh yeah, her role against on WWII was almost a joke, it was like saying "Holy Shit! She saved Fiamma of the Right froma a nuke of all things!" . Someone said that about prevening Nikolai from sweating or something like that .

that part was mine, and I think I said that she helped Fiamma not to spend energy and uses this energy keep in Touma.

and this is the most popular character in the franchise.

but anyway, I just want to share it makes sense, I've liked her since, I feel sad thinking that when she appears in the novel today I have to hold myself not to skip parts of her.

ps: and I really want to believe that Kamachi make joke these fans doing she and Acc a couple in the Omega world.

[desrtsku]

Okay, okay now. You people are straying way too far off topic. So maybe it should be the time to calm down a little.
Let's start from the beginning, the discussion was about Accelerator not having any major rôle in the near future because of his manga treatment. At least that's how I started it.
So I humbly ask you to stop bringing up characters who are only of major importance on average for 5/33 volumes and are just cameoed for about half of the rest -and who eventually have far less screentime than Accel in the main series- to back up your counter arguments.

@Tsunade I know what you're saying, but

Spoiler for Technically speaking, you already have more Accel already.:

Technically speaking, Accel still have more screentime and better treatment than Mikoto overall. Be it from vol 3 to vol 22 or from NT1 to NT9, it's still the case. So your point about him is moot. You're free to complain about the rest if you want though.
Moreover, it's clear that Accel is set to have no major rôle for a certain time in the main series in favour of Touma's suffering, but is in exchange getting his own spin off.
Dare any of you ask for more of him for that reason, you'd sound no better than the Mikoto fans you hate so much.

But Accel is a protagonist, not some random character.

He hasn't been a protagonist of any volume since NT2. And that's the author's choice, not mine.
NT3-5-6-7 are just him being there as a support character. And that's the point I was making since the beginning. So please bear with it.

@LG-MAX A-are you saying Touma is immune to radiation or something?

[LG-MAX]

@LG-MAX A-are you saying Touma is immune to radiation or something?

Where the hell did this come from? I know Touman is amazing, but he can not punch the radiation (yet).

what I mean is that with the interference of Mikoto, Fiamma did not need to destroy the missiles, it would probably make him burn some energy (however small)

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

Where the hell did this come from? I know Touman is amazing, but he can not punch the radiation (yet).

what I mean is that with the interference of Mikoto, Fiamma did not need to destroy the missiles, it would probably make him burn some energy (however small)

Sure. Then, let's say he indeed destroyed the nuclear warheads before they smashed the fortress. Are you saying Fiamma would have wasted his energy shielding the entire fortress or the rest of the populace from the radiations (while just shielding his own body is enough)?
Especially, considering the damage caused by the spreading of the radiation would have done more good than bad to his plan.

Where the hell did this come from?

It's always been there, though. Why didn't you see it?

[LG-MAX]

guy, is the Fiamma, who uses the power needed to destroy the enemy that is in his front(radiation? pffffffffffffffffffffffffffff), this hypothetical situation seems its something scary, but it is not, at that time the greater the despair of the world, he getting stronger, and anyway, we're just pointing out that this situation was not a good way to use Mikoto in history. simple.

and ready, can close the topic.

[Birdway]

Indeed that's too farfetched, and btw, didn't his Holy Right had an auto mode that protected him even from orbital attacks? I'm sure those beams had something else besides heat...

[dniv]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Okay, okay now. You people are straying way too far off topic. So maybe it should be the time to calm down a little.
Let's start from the beginning, the discussion was about Accelerator not having any major rôle in the near future because of his manga treatment. At least that's how I started it.
So I humbly ask you to stop bringing up characters who are only of major importance on average for 5/33 volumes and are just cameoed for about half of the rest -and who eventually have far less screentime than Accel in the main series- to back up your counter arguments.

@Tsunade I know what you're saying, but

Spoiler for Technically speaking, you already have more Accel already.:

Technically speaking, Accel still have more screentime and better treatment than Mikoto overall. Be it from vol 3 to vol 22 or from NT1 to NT9, it's still the case. So your point about him is moot. You're free to complain about the rest if you want though.
Moreover, it's clear that Accel is set to have no major rôle for a certain time in the main series in favour of Touma's suffering, but is in exchange getting his own spin off.
Dare any of you ask for more of him for that reason, you'd sound no better than the Mikoto fans you hate so much.

He hasn't been a protagonist of any volume since NT2. And that's the author's choice, not mine.
NT3-5-6-7 are just him being there as a support character. And that's the point I was making since the beginning. So please bear with it.

@LG-MAX A-are you saying Touma is immune to radiation or something?

I don't see it that way. I see it as Accelerator getting a spin-off setting up a major arc that will happen with him in the LN's based on canon stuff introduced in the spin-off to give background to set it up for us.

[desrtsku]

^ That's another way to see it. Since, I don't really have anything to repel that, I'll stand corrected for now.

@LG-MAX & Birdway. You guys though, it's as if you try to dodge the subject.

Spoiler for since it's kinda off topic at this point:

Originally Posted by LG-MAX

guy, is the Fiamma, who uses the power needed to destroy the enemy that is in his front(radiation? pffffffffffffffffffffffffffff), this hypothetical situation seems its something scary, but it is not, at that time the greater the despair of the world, he getting stronger, and anyway, we're just pointing out that this situation was not a good way to use Mikoto in history. simple.

and ready, can close the topic.

My apologies, but closing the topic at this stage is kinda rude from your part. You're not actually denying anything I said. He has no reason to get rid of the radiation even if he can, since it would make him even stronger by harming everyone else around their location. You see, like I said, "something that does him more good than bad".

Indeed that's too farfetched, and btw, didn't his Holy Right had an auto mode that protected him even from orbital attacks? I'm sure those beams had something else besides heat...

That might be right, yet he didn't bother annihilating Vento's attacks entirely. Why didn't he? I'm sure he could have smashed all those anchors without letting any of them exploded but he didn't.
The point is : sure HR protects him 100% of the time without fail, but not his surroundings = the rest of the world (including Touma). And even if he can, he wouldn't bother doing that at all since it benefits his deed.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ That's another way to see it. Since, I don't really have anything to repel that, I'll stand corrected for now.

@LG-MAX & Birdway. You guys though, it's as if you try to dodge the subject.

Spoiler for since it's kinda off topic at this point:

My apologies, but closing the topic at this stage is kinda rude from your part. You're not actually denying anything I said. He has no reason to get rid of the radiation even if he can, since it would make him even stronger by harming everyone else around their location. You see, like I said, "something that does him more good than bad".


That might be right, yet he didn't bother annihilating Vento's attacks entirely. Why didn't he? I'm sure he could have smashed all those anchors without letting any of them exploded but he didn't.
The point is : sure HR protects him 100% of the time without fail, but not his surroundings = the rest of the world (including Touma). And even if he can, he wouldn't bother doing that at all since it benefits his deed.

This I agree which is why I didn't comment about it. But then again. Isn't the star of Bethlehem 10 KM above ground level? will the radiation effect the ground forces? I don't know so I comment about it.

The only thing that biribiri prevent is bombing the star which is where touma and fiamma's battle ground. Which also has their own plot armor. Touma has his misfortune that prevent him from dying and Fiamma has his Holy Right. Again I won't comment on it because by that time. Vol 22. We don't know yet about Touma's plot armor. We will just talk about it as plot armor of the protagonist if touma survive a nuclear shower. But since NT 9 happen. His plot armor was given name as Misfortune

I agree that Fiamma won't care about the damage done by the nukes but then again which is why I will ask.

Will the nuke's radiation affect if the star of Bethlehem lies in the outer space?

because last time I read about it, is it was in the outer space with a distorted space or a golden light surrounding it. A concentrated telesma place.

[LG-MAX]

There are many issues to be considered in all these aspects.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Isn't the star of Bethlehem 10 KM above ground level? will the radiation effect the ground forces? I don't know so I comment about it.

Spoiler for Is this really the right thread to talk about this?:

It mainly depends on how powerful the warhead was and what type of "radiation" you're talking about. There's the instant exposure to the radiation from the explosion itself and there's the contamination via fallout.
If it's just about the direct effects of the explosion itself this article should be of a good help (they should be more or less safe unless it's some X megatons nuclear warhead or something).
If it's about the fallout then airburst should minimise it. However, considering it's fired on a gigantic fortress instead of a mass of air, then there's a high risk of black rain falling on Touma them.

But yeah, as LG-MAX said, there are many factors to be considered. (which in this case is much harder to analyse because it's a never tested attack on a flying gigantic fortress)

Which also has their own plot armor.
->Touma's plot armor

By that logic you would think his so called "plot armor" was the very fact that the bomb was stopped before it was launched.

it was in the outer space

But that's outside the atmosphere, how could have Touma breathed in that place?

Back on topic, I remember that Fiamma is one-handed and wounded by Othinus. Will he really participate next volume?

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Spoiler for Is this really the right thread to talk about this?:

But that's outside the atmosphere, how could have Touma breathed in that place?

correct me if I'm wrong on remember but its 10000 meters above ground right? when I checked on wiki it says that it should still be in troposphere. it still the first layer in the level on going outer space but still not. That should be karman line. The boundary of earth and space.

But the air there should still be pretty thin and will be hard to breath in but the space is distorted thanks to the accumulated telesma so. Normal laws shouldn't apply to it.

On topic.

It depends. But Fiamma will probably just watch as things unfold. Like Aleister and the other master manipulators.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

The only thing that biribiri prevent is bombing the star which is where touma and fiamma's battle ground. Which also has their own plot armor. Touma has his misfortune that prevent him from dying and Fiamma has his Holy Right. Again I won't comment on it because by that time. Vol 22. We don't know yet about Touma's plot armor. We will just talk about it as plot armor of the protagonist if touma survive a nuclear shower. But since NT 9 happen. His plot armor was given name as Misfortune

Wait, so does Touma have a brand new type of plot armor?

He has the type of plot armor with two conditions so far:

Condition 1: I will not die against someone who cannot bring me back to life if I die.

Condition 2: I will only die against someone who can bring me back to life if they will immediately bring me back to life and give me back my Imagine Breaker.

We don't have enough evidence as of yet to say that either of these two conditions is wrong. Honestly, in a way IB for Touma is almost like Naruto having the Kyuubi, really fast healing/ blah blah blah when they get hurt. I mean Touma's arm even regrows.

I've been curious for a while about whether IB and Aiwass are related since both will respawn somewhere a while later after they "die."

I'm curious as to whether part of the reason Touma survives everything is more meta and it will be revealed later. That would be interesting.