US Elections 2008

[cors8]

Originally Posted by solomon

Ask conservative leading busy-body houswives about that and then we will talk

I think they're occupied with Obama being a secret Muslim community organizer, also known as the ONE, who will bring the Rapture upon the faithful while raising taxes and reading terrorists their rights.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Aquillion

On the other hand, the Obama campaign is hardly going to want to make a big deal out of some hackers breaking into a political rival's email account, either. So it'll drop below the radar.

So far the majority of the press is picking this up in their blogs(Google news all articles link) as expected. (And the AP article actually describes how the hack was done.)

Now the reason for this post is this is a great way to see the difference between the press outlets.

Fox news with the victimized Palin angle.

CNN with a brief mention on their blogs.

Washington post with a bit of a muckraker angle.

ABC has a very small "it happened" blog page up.

[mg1942]

Palin's phase (and the novelty) officially ended yesterday.

Now we're on REAL issues! No more pigs 'n lipstick

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by mg1942

Now we're on REAL issues! No more pigs 'n lipstick

You are right, there are more important things to discuss other than trhe person in question's child's pregnancy, or that person being pro-life. And, it makes you think, what in the world the Democrats have been discussing about recently, when the economy is screaming for help? I guess being clueless is not limited to only the Republicans, there is a huge crowd of Democrats waiting in line just to write their names on that list, starting with the ones in the liberal media. I am glad they finally did find the clue they have been looking for blindly.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

You are right, there are more important things to discuss other than the person in question's child's pregnancy, or that person being pro-life. And, it makes you think, what in the world the Democrats have been discussing about recently, when the economy is screaming for help? I guess being clueless is not limited to only the Republicans, there is a huge crowd of Democrats waiting in line just to write their names on that list, starting with the ones in the liberal media. I am glad they finally did find the clue they have been looking for blindly.

Um.... I'd say you're being very selective about what "Democrats" and "liberal media" you've been listening to. Most of the news and candidates have been discussing the economy for the last week.

Something to actually rip the commercial media over is their inability to focus on more than one or two issues at a time.
1) Iraq situation
2) Sad state of education
3) healthcare
4) social security
5) road systems
6) corruption in congress and bush administration
7) incompetence in congress and bush administration
8) greed/corruption on Wall Street
9) Candidate backgrounds (be they pastors or troopergate)
10) eroded capability of government agencies

We have dozens of news channels, candidates have roomfuls of staff people --- yet keeping more than one or two items of that list on the radar in a 24 hour "news cycle" seems to be too tough.
Incompetent? Stupid? Unprofessional? Poorly trained? Just flat pathetic mostly.

Yet....on any given night, I'll get at least 5 or 6 of those issues covered in some depth on The NewsHour (PBS) and on NPR, even deeper coverage on some nights with the documentary news hours (Frontline, NOW, Wide Angle, Washington Weekly, etc).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Yet....on any given night, I'll get at least 5 or 6 of those issues covered in some depth on The NewsHour (PBS) and on NPR, even deeper coverage on some nights with the documentary news hours (Frontline, NOW, Wide Angle, Washington Weekly, etc).

you should include the daliy show in there

[solomon]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Um.... I'd say you're being very selective about what "Democrats" and "liberal media" you've been listening to. Most of the news and candidates have been discussing the economy for the last week.

Something to actually rip the commercial media over is their inability to focus on more than one or two issues at a time.
1) Iraq situation
2) Sad state of education
3) healthcare
4) social security
5) road systems
6) corruption in congress and bush administration
7) incompetence in congress and bush administration
8) greed/corruption on Wall Street
9) Candidate backgrounds (be they pastors or troopergate)
10) eroded capability of government agencies

We have dozens of news channels, candidates have roomfuls of staff people --- yet keeping more than one or two items of that list on the radar in a 24 hour "news cycle" seems to be too tough.
Incompetent? Stupid? Unprofessional? Poorly trained? Just flat pathetic mostly.

Yet....on any given night, I'll get at least 5 or 6 of those issues covered in some depth on The NewsHour (PBS) and on NPR, even deeper coverage on some nights with the documentary news hours (Frontline, NOW, Wide Angle, Washington Weekly, etc).

Vexx, you know that's the fault of the forming of news as theatre. You know how people wouldn't want to watch something like Ghost in the SHell: SAC with it's multiple detailed subplots going on at the same time. Or at least news directors act like they can't handle it.

Well the news directors and CEO's abide by that ruling considerably. One is due to tightening news budgets and the other more prominent reason is the ratings/sales game, the ratings rat race cripples the quality of most television, so naturally it's going to infect and bring down news quality.

Modern Newspapers do a somewhat better job, but historically in the long run they haven't been MUCH greater in integrety then television (Look at Hearst newspapers of old days)

TV news has it much worse cause it's primarily an commercial entertainment medium.

[solomon]

Bill Moyers is a guy who tries to do dot connecting, but repubs finger him as a "biased-liberal" when he tries to tie the government fallacies you pointed out to the republicans.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Um.... I'd say you're being very selective about what "Democrats" and "liberal media" you've been listening to. Most of the news and candidates have been discussing the economy for the last week.

After the bridge falls down it is really easy to talk about its previous fractures. And, this is how I see. And I think it is fair to say that.

Objective sites usually try to give information about many of the ongoing problems, but, they are not really the ones with the highest voice to reach the people for that. And the reason I am quoting liberal sites, mainly because they feel like the other side is nothing, they fell like they are the ones with intelligence. And they shout a lot to prove that. Sadly the people hear them, and some believe. Anyways, I am only wondering where is that intelligence when the economy was giving strong signals of a collapse, that were as close to them as a glass of wine. I am not including the Republicans in this part, because, they are not really the ones to claim that. They are mostly about the feelings, and how to trigger those.

[cors8]

Well, of course the Republicans won't claim that. They are the party in power for the past 8 years.

Of course, the real cause is a series of events that span several administrations of both parties. It gets extremely complicated explaining it to the average American though.

[solomon]

It's true, and we can't be faulted for the fact that it is complicated, IT"S REEALLY COMPLICATED.

One thing the citizenry has to work on is to start caring about how government works and really understanding the nitty gritty of what goes on. I'm not suggesting watching C-SPAN all day or anything.

But like all this hype into the electing of the new preisident. It makes me think that we americans like to think of him as a King (maybe even god depending on who you talk to)
when really his power is limited.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

After the bridge falls down it is really easy to talk about its previous fractures. And, this is how I see. And I think it is fair to say that.

Objective sites usually try to give information about many of the ongoing problems, but, they are not really the ones with the highest voice to reach the people for that. And the reason I am quoting liberal sites, mainly because they feel like the other side is nothing, they fell like they are the ones with intelligence. And they shout a lot to prove that. Sadly the people hear them, and some believe. Anyways, I am only wondering where is that intelligence when the economy was giving strong signals of a collapse, that were as close to them as a glass of wine. I am not including the Republicans in this part, because, they are not really the ones to claim that. They are mostly about the feelings, and how to trigger those.

I am not quite sure what your point is. Are you talking about how the media has not followed the signs of the eventual problems that we currently face in our economic situation (i.e. they have not adequetly understood the problems, and have thus ended up incorectly deciphering the information from the past few years) ? Or is this simply another "liberal/conservative = bad" post (not to say that you exculsively make those kinds of posts or have every necessarily made these types of posts in the past) with partial reasons why both are bad?

For the first possible question, it is not the media's job to predict long term consequences for various socio-economical problems. Specifically, the media and its journalist are transitory in their coverage of the world, never focusing on one thing for too long, and never trying to explore the "future". Rather, the media's job is to inform about current affairs, and partially how the world is effected by previous affairs (i.e. they can see the past and they can see the now, but that does not mean that they can draw a conclusion as to the future). In no journalists job description is the ability to make long term analysis or even guesses concerning the various topics they cover. The various members of the media are only interested in the Now, not the When, they are also generally only interested in the What and How, but not the Why.

As for your possible second point...well that seems almost entirely opinion based, so there is no real point to arguing with you (or anyone) over this point.

[solomon]

As a general update; could members give a general overview of which ticket they're leaning towards and why?

I am leaning much toward the Obama-Biden Ticket. Ideologically, I am more in tune with the Dems then the Repubs (although I don't strongly identify as a democrat). One major motivation is this as suggested by my mom and repeated in an issue of Foriegn Affairs Magazine
-Obama being younger has the possibility for new flexibilty and more open ideas then his more established former rivals and current competitor. He's hardly perfect mind you, but seems like he could be a good shot in the arm in the White House.
-Biden would be an excellent Right Hand man for Obama particularly in navigating the complexities of the many foriegn policy debacles we face.


McCain-Palin; I was more open to McCain earlier in the election cycle when he really established himself as different from the established Republicans and wasn't afraid to show it. However, after securing the nomination he just can't do that.
-One thing that bugs me is supporting the Bush Tax Cuts, I don't have a lotta wieght for this argument scince I am no economist, but something about just doesn't sit well with having McCain towing the Republican party line on economics.
-Foriegn Policy: McCain does have experience in foriegn policy legislation. However, I think he has EXAGGERATED his whole "I served in war, I know how to attain victory schtick. I see him as sometimes maybe too hawkish when he need not be (Iran on certain points, the Russian-Georgian conflict especially). His "hell or high water" stance on Iraq also irks me, cause he's relying on that faulty "we needed to take out Saddam cause it was the right thing to do" rhetoric.
-Palin meh, she seems like a nice lady, rather scincire. She (to me) is just a figure head for the Christian right, who has no real weight. I hardly think she will be terribly influential in the White House personally. Also she's overplaying her "teflon reformer" angle. I don't mind if she has some skeletons in her closet, I don't wish for a sage in the White House (cause you aint gonna get one). But the fact that she is at least SEEN as "a heartbeat away" from the presidency is troubling. Cause while Obama is young he at least has been on the national stage and has proved effective, and Biden is a vet. Palin has no natinonal govt. experience and NO FORIEGN POLICY EXPERIENCE.


Debates should be knock down drag out fun (cue FOX NFL SUNDAY music)

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by solomon

But like all this hype into the electing of the new preisident. It makes me think that we americans like to think of him as a King (maybe even god depending on who you talk to)
when really his power is limited.

Tell that to the current one.

[Vexx]

The concern that the President would be a defacto "king" was a massive concern all the way back to George Washington. Its almost a direct relationship between the under-education of the population and their "longing for a king". Couple that with the outrageous neocon interpretation of a "unitary executive" and you have a recipe for disaster.... o wait, already cooked that recipe and now they want to give us another 4 years of it.

[cors8]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_127346.html

Wonder how McCain spins this one.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm stumped. I don't know if I should find that hilarious or terrifying.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm stumped. I don't know if I should find that hilarious or terrifying.

I say both.

I see also that Obama got the lead in some of the polls and maybe the electoral map is going to be changing again for his favor, and McCain is keep putting his foot in his mouth, then I think he will lose this election.

[Vexx]

More and more of the time, my cynicism leads this way .... time to shoot at the sacred cow of "the wisdom of the American People"

http://www.perseuspodcasts.com/main/...FSAUagodlUoYew

[cors8]

As a follow-up to my previous link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_127449.html

Won't even meet with a NATO ally who's helping in Afghanistan? Seriously?