(L) Re:Creators

[Ultragunner]

So Meteora stays eh? dunno why, but I feel it's kinda bittersweet in a sense, like a certain original movie featuring 2 brothers leaving their world behind (*hint*FMA*hint*)

ehem, I'm just wondering....what would happen if the characters stayed in our world while their series is still ongoing?

Both Magane and Meteora's creators are dead, so one could say that nothing would affect them

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

but was in the final battle with the "betrayal matted more and even after his death, his effort was what helped later scotland get free his freedom, while here they death don't matted for the outcome, the whole battle was pointless all they needed in the end was just summon setsuna and boom happy end, they deaths and efforts only effected they series sales which increased and promotion of second seasons animes and spin offs, but for the real world they efforts where pointless they died and don't really achieved anything, they death don't donate to "weaken the enemie" or anything like that, they just get killed and where just the "sidelines characters.

AFAIK until this very second, Scotland's "freedom" from Britain are still relative depending on who you ask. Isn't Scotland still part of the United Kingdom? That's definitely not what William Wallace in Braveheart had in mind if we were to follow his goals strictly.

But again, that's beside the point. You basically said William Wallace's death inspired another struggle from Scottish people. By your standard, that can also be applied to Selesia & co. It's their struggle and determination that drew Magane's interest to help them instead of watching Altair curbstomp everybody. So, in a way, our heroes struggle is actually rewarded via Magane.

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

and the most important braveheart got a oscar because unlike here he get a good plot and development and not was heavy criticized and was overal liked and well received while in the show, the end was heavy criticized, it was a hit inside the anime if we bring to "outside" it was a fail since was heavy criticized and not well on sales or in short it was a fail, due to final bad plot.

Obviously, I'm not saying that Re:Creators is on the same level as Braveheart. I'm just saying that they shared one theme that I already mentioned in my previous post. That's it.

Feel free to disagree to your hearts content. I already proved and supported my point with the fact provided in both stories.

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

ehem, I'm just wondering....what would happen if the characters stayed in our world while their series is still ongoing?

Both Magane and Meteora's creators are dead, so one could say that nothing would affect them

I think the creations and the stories can stand independently just fine. The creations will be just like other people where they can read/watch their own stories if they want to without any effect coz they are now different existence from their past media-selves.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Obviously, I'm not saying that Re:Creators is on the same level as Braveheart. I'm just saying that they shared one theme that I already mentioned in my previous post. That's it.

Looking back at Braveheart, I'd say Re:Creators is actually a way better piece of writing.

[blakstealth]

I looooove the fact that Meteora stayed (even though she had to choice). Surprised that we didn't see Magane in the finale, though.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

AFAIK until this very second, Scotland's "freedom" from Britain are still relative depending on who you ask. Isn't Scotland still part of the United Kingdom? That's definitely not what William Wallace in Braveheart had in mind if we were to follow his goals strictly.

But again, that's beside the point. You basically said William Wallace's death inspired another struggle from Scottish people. By your standard, that can also be applied to Selesia & co. It's their struggle and determination that drew Magane's interest to help them instead of watching Altair curbstomp everybody. So, in a way, our heroes struggle is actually rewarded via Magane.

Obviously, I'm not saying that Re:Creators is on the same level as Braveheart. I'm just saying that they shared one theme that I already mentioned in my previous post. That's it.

Feel free to disagree to your hearts content. I already proved and supported my point with the fact provided in both stories.

the only reason magane helped then was because she is not a "suicidal" and not have any death wish and knew which if altair wins this could means she will die and all her fun will end, that is why she helped, most for her own sake and because as she told all she want is have and don't care for any side.

and i'm saying which they don't share because first the main character was altair not the group as was pointed in the end, then technically she get something which she wanted which was setsuna, this already show which this show had nothing in common with the other, the others characters in the end where just secondary characters for altair great good, as hiroe told this was all about altair and i told in the end they don't inspired anyone.

and what scotland have now still much better than what they had in the past, while they still somehow "part of united kingdom" they have totally freedom to do whatever they want and not having peoples banging they wifes just because they are the "bosses" which this is what triggered willian in first place, because he don't liked the idea of his "first time with" his wife be taken by the leaders and it leading to her death, that was what actually trigged him, not a "passion to save his people" it was a pure selfish beginner which later grow in something bigger but still a whim over his "first time with his wife".

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

No, you missed the part where the in-universe fans want their favourite heroes to lose and die to someone who want to destroy the world and win.

Why do you assume that people that accepted Altair wanted the heroes to die and her to destroy the world? Maybe some people liked Altair and wanted her to have a happy ending.

Maybe everyone there simply wanted to see how Altair's story was going to go and that was acceptance enough.

You assume that everyone that accepted Altair had some bad motive for it, but just like in RL, people can become invested in characters and stories for any number of reasons.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Looking back at Braveheart, I'd say Re:Creators is actually a way better piece of writing.

Really?

I mean, I like Re:Creators, but I'd say it has a lot more glaring plot holes and plot conveniences compared to Braveheart. Remember Mamika's dripping blood that conveniently dropped on Magane's snack which made it a lot easier for the shark-girl to find mamika first? Yeah that was badly convenient (among other problems in the narrative).

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Looking back at Braveheart, I'd say Re:Creators is actually a way better piece of writing.

lol, i really totally disagree with that, re:creators it at best "average" when looking for the whole serie not just "picking some parts" because if i forget the whole 3 last episdes then it's really rise the serie to a very good one but still not enough to be good as braveheart because he don't had all the whole mess in plot this serie get near the end.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Really?

I mean, I like Re:Creators, but I'd say it has a lot more glaring plot holes and plot conveniences compared to Braveheart. Remember Mamika's dripping blood that conveniently dropped on Magane's snack which made it a lot easier for the shark-girl to find mamika first? Yeah that was badly convenient (among other problems in the narrative).

Yes, really. Re:Creators was a show with deeply complex story ideas, which were explored in depth. One episode which had some plot convenience "they just happened to be there" moments doesn't erase that. Braveheart was mostly Hollywood cliches, historically inacurate to say the least and got its important Oscars (Best Film, best Director) mainly on the strength of Mel Gibson going from actor to director, something the Oscar committee just seems to adore.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yes, really. Re:Creators was a show with deeply complex story ideas, which were explored in depth. One episode which had some plot convenience "they just happened to be there" moments doesn't erase that. Braveheart was mostly Hollywood cliches, historically inacurate to say the least and got its important Oscars (Best Film, best Director) mainly on the strength of Mel Gibson going from actor to director, something the Oscar committee just seems to adore.

"being cliche or not " is not the only fact if something is good or no, but how you work with it, while braveheart have a lot of cliche, he did get a good and solid writing even if was not "accurace", but still good and don't have asspull, even the most generic anime harem can be good if the writer know how to proper deal with it and bring a good story where all the generic don't look so bad.

and that is the problem with re:creatoers when the plot and story is really original and good conception it suffer with bad delivering of it and bad execution and many asspull specially in the end when the writer just ignored most of his idea and decided do whatever he want to make the final look soo touch and emotional but at the cost at the good narrative it was having so far, he just sacrified all the good narration to delivery a half assed ending.

[Diluc]

Well that is anticlimatic ending.
With how Meteora stayed in real world and there is no any conclusion for Magane we get, i wonder this is open ending hint for sequel.

[RDNexus]

For those still affected by the conflict's resolution, I can only guess no amount of arguments others present you will satisfy you, right?
If there's been any kind of damage done to the overall story, it's done, better to let it go than simply hit on it time and time again.

Maybe NAKED may shed some light on Hiroe-sensei's original ideas and intentions for this story and help this whole discussion progress.
Gotta wait and see.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Roxis

Well that is anticlimatic ending.
With how Meteora stayed in real world and there is no any conclusion for Magane we get, i wonder this is open ending hint for sequel.

well since altair still alive, still possible to bring back everyone if one day they wanted and ofcourse anime and merchandises sales where good enough to grant ir a second season and also acceptance, we must see the next weeks after that ending how it affected the show acceptance, if it was really heavy negative then srry and be happy with the magane spin off, if not then maybe we can get one in 1 or 2 or 4 years, what is matter is the "real peoples acceptance" because they where not like the "fake audience" in the battle where everyone was brainwashed to love altair.

Originally Posted by xrick

I can only guess no amount of arguments others present you will satisfy you, right?
If there's been any kind of damage done to the overall story, it's done, better to let it go than simply hit on it time and time again.

Maybe NAKED may shed some light on Hiroe-sensei's original ideas and intentions for this story and help this whole discussion progress. Gotta wait and see.

me too i would love to see that naked and all the differences, because it's look like the case of many animes with "2 versions" where anime and original story goes on different routes, or because to make "both sales" or because the writer somehow don't liked the original or someoone in the production and asked to make many changes.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

"being cliche or not " is not the only fact if something is good or no, but how you work with it, while braveheart have a lot of cliche, he did get a good and solid writing even if was not "accurace", but still good and don't have asspull, even the most generic anime harem can be good if the writer know how to proper deal with it and bring a good story where all the generic don't look so bad.

and that is the problem with re:creatoers when the plot and story is really original and good conception it suffer with bad delivering of it and bad execution and many asspull specially in the end when the writer just ignored most of his idea and decided do whatever he want to make the final look soo touch and emotional but at the cost at the good narrative it was having so far, he just sacrified all the good narration to delivery a half assed ending.

I'm not sure how the ending was half-assed. The writers pretty pulled of what they were going for. I'm not 100% happy that ep 21 was so dialogue-heavy and the other characters were reduced to bystanders, that went into my criticisms of the show a few posts back. The show ended pretty conclusively, with room for a sequel by leaving Meteora and Magane in the real world and Altair also being around somewhere. Can't say I'm disappointed that the two best girls got to stay and live their own lifes.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by xrick

For those still affected by the conflict's resolution, I can only guess no amount of arguments others present you will satisfy you, right?

I already said my piece, that so much of the anime was dedicated on matters unrelated to the final ending that it can only be considered bad. The majority of the anime episodes basically had no purpose, and most of the cast had no purpose. Altair and her creator's story can fit in two episodes, if even that much. Everything else was a waste of time as thus, should have been made relevant or cut.

Edit: Also, there is no "sending them home" for those Creations who choose to go back. They were basically killed because they were just copies of the original. But the anime is likely to try and brush this off. It was one more thing the studio didn't care enough to notice.

[Shadow5YA]

I'm scratching my head at why they never bothered to search for Magane, a known murderer, to send her back. Even if she couldn't use her powers anymore like Meteora, she is more than capable of manipulating and killing people through conventional methods.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yes, really. Re:Creators was a show with deeply complex story ideas, which were explored in depth. One episode which had some plot convenience "they just happened to be there" moments doesn't erase that. Braveheart was mostly Hollywood cliches, historically inacurate to say the least and got its important Oscars (Best Film, best Director) mainly on the strength of Mel Gibson going from actor to director, something the Oscar committee just seems to adore.

I did mention that the "convenient blood-drip" is just one among other problems, right? Because if I were to mention all the narrative problems in R:C then I need to do it in a form of a list (maybe even a long list at that). Here's another example: the power that brought Altair to life in the first place is never explained, not even a name or a term which is weird considering this power is the center of R:C's story. Not to mention Altair's limitation when it comes to summoning characters. Is it true that she can just pick anything and anyone that she likes? If not then what's the limitations? Never explained in the show. That was a question that I've been asking since early in this series coz it's important for the plot yet never got answered. There are many more things like this but I think you already get the point.

On the other hand, Braveheart doesn't have such problems. Everything is clear: the goals, the MC's skills, the MC's limitations, the world the characters are in is well-developed, etc. Even the foreshadowing and twist that lead to betrayal is executed brilliantly. Using cliche is never a problem as long as the writing is good and has more creative content in it. As for being historically inaccurate, well....to put it bluntly: those who expect 80-100% accuracy from Hollywood movies are either too naive, never watched a Hollywood movie before or just downright silly.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I'm scratching my head at why they never bothered to search for Magane, a known murderer, to send her back. Even if she couldn't use her powers anymore like Meteora, she is more than capable of manipulating and killing people the old fashioned way.

Why care about one mass murderer, when Altair went free?

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I'm not sure how the ending was half-assed. The writers pretty pulled of what they were going for. I'm not 100% happy that ep 21 was so dialogue-heavy and the other characters were reduced to bystanders, that went into my criticisms of the show a few posts back. The show ended pretty conclusively, with room for a sequel by leaving Meteora and Magane in the real world and Altair also being around somewhere. Can't say I'm disappointed that the two best girls got to stay and live their own lifes.

yeah it ended with a "open end" and chance for second season, i told that in a post too, but the problem was which what gonna matter is the "reception" and acceptance, because again if a majority of peoples get more negative than positive and it effect merchandise overall sales and the anime don't ending paying for itself or paying too poor like barelly paying it costs then even with a open ending the chance of second season is 0, because none other anime studio will gonna acept the backfire again, the anime must justify itself to have another season, that is why i told which now we must wait to see how overal public and specially japan will react to the whole serie if it still suffering from criticism and negative view and low sales then the serie was doomed forever but if for some reason it manage to make something worth of a second season like the magane spinoff skyrocket sales or original naked sky rocket sales or even the anime skyrocket sales then we have a chance of second season but all still in dark aslong we don't know how public will keep reacting to everything and soo far the reactions is being pretty negative and anime sales started really low, now which the serie ended what is matter is wait and see.

and as i told for me the anime is not a garbage and totally terrible and forgetable i still recomend it to friends but really the end was very downgrade for something which was going steady and good.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Why care about one mass murderer, when Altair went free?

You keep repeating this as if they just let Altair go. They tried dealing with her and they literally could not stop her.