(...)But as some have already pointed out, the Diablos Ex Machina that led to Miria's "death" were far more absurd then the events that led to Miria's survival.
And as some people pointed out, it wasn't.
It's interesting how many lurkers have come out thanks to Miria being alive, just look at the number of votes (already more than for a 112th chapter). It was similar with 107th chapter,, maybe Yagi should now kill and resurrect Galatea. 2 popularity boosts are guaranteed.
I think we can call it a moment of 'OCC' for Miria - too bad it's a canon OCC or else we wouldn't have raged quite so much... Y'd think that she'd had learned to keep from taking everything on herself from all their time in the North - that's Clare's job and looked where it landed her.
If Clare was more predispositioned to Miria, I bet anything that Miria would have wanted to take Clare with her. She can sense youki as well (not like Tabitha can but between the two of them, they can manage), and she knows that Clare will wipe the floor with the girls but not kill them (she saw how to do it best from Teresa after all). And between those two, they could have easily conquered Staff/the Org inside a day. And then with all the available resources that the Org possessed - THEN Clare going off to fight whatever would have been more feasible.
... Yeah right, that wasn't gonna happen, not by a long-shot. It would have been too tidy and neat of a plan - one that I bet Miria came up with on the spot when she said that she'd go down South again with just Clare alone.
Ah Miria, you're smart, pretty, and dumb as hell too.
I think I'll start calling her 'Phantom Phoenix' from now on - it fits. (Thank you Lamia Loveless)
~*~
Heh, I wasn't even lurking around here - I had totally given up when Miria 'died' in 107.
This will boil down to opinion Gooral, you and several others simply don't believe that the events that led to Miria's survival are plausible, while many posters here think they are perfectly acceptable.
On the flip side, a LOT of people found the events that led to Miria's death to be ridiculous (myself included), but others (such as yourself) found it perfectly acceptable.
Heck, if my memory serves me correctly, you were part of the "Miria is secretly using everyone for her own ends" group.
That's what he said, wasn't it? (That they are about equally absurd.) That was my first thought, anyway.
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This will boil down to opinion Gooral, you and several others simply don't believe that the events that led to Miria's survival are plausible, while many posters here think they are perfectly acceptable.
On the flip side, a LOT of people found the events that led to Miria's death to be ridiculous (myself included), but others (such as yourself) found it perfectly acceptable.
It's not really a matter of plausibility. Whoever likes or is invested in a particular outcome will always find some way to justify/rationalize that outcome (and vice versa). We fans are very good at that. And in a fantasy setting, plausibility is almost always fluid. (Note that I'm not just talking about the specific case of chapters 107/113 here.)
Yeesh.. 100 more posts to go through already, and I haven't even had time to do my own review.
In any case, what I found most interesting this chapter was not Miria, but the conversation between Rubel and Dae at the start, as well as the lackey delivering the message from Limt.
There's a curiosity in the different levels of physical deterioration amongst the MiBs. Dae is clearly way far gone, whereas the lackey (never named, I don't think) looks pretty normal. This leads me to speculate about their origins, and particularly about the early setup of the organization.
Giving it some thought, this is how I see it playing out:
The original idea for the Claymore warriors was devloped by a small group of scientists, intelligent, and dedicated to their cause (at least insofar as they could get funding for their research). This was approved as a preliminary measure, and these scientists and a few close assistants were sent to this hidden continent to test their work.
The initial experimentation was a tentative success, though with issues. A few male Claymores were sent to the battlefield (as seen in Miria's explanation flashback). There were problems, but the government could see enough promise in the project to increase its funding and support. Instead of an experimental project, it became a full-fledged research program.
Along with the funding came the 'support' of more personnel. Expanding the scope of things required more hands, more people, among whom was our lackey from this chapter.
The problem is that he will -always- be a lackey, and knows it. He may be highly placed in the Org, to be delivering messages from Limt himself, but he also knows he will always be second-tier. He's not one of the great geniuses of the Org, like Dae. Rather, he is that dread creature known to businesses throughout the world: the Middle Manager. It's extremely clear from the way he conveys the messages, demanding a timeline for completion, and ordering Rubel to attend an all-hands meeting, that he's frustrated by his own personal lack of power within the Organization.
It also makes me think that the disfigurments of the top echelon of MiBs are due to that transition period, when the project was still experimental. Lack of support personnel meant they had to do all the dangerous work themselves, and the scars are likely a remnant of when things went wrong.
Along those same lines, the guy who was ordering the Claymores around during Miria's attack, and her apparent death, is also likely to be in a very similar position. Probably lower down, actually, since he's merely in charge of the troops, whereas our first lackey is conveying messages among the top leaders. The troop leader is similarly uninterested in pursuing excellence; he just wants to do his job and get out of there, to get away from all these experimental freaks (the Claymores) who just chopped up one of their own like hamburger. He'd be absolutely terrified if they turned on him (and probably felt like they were about to, when he saw their bloody faces stare at him so coldly), so keeps up that front of always making sure they know they have to follow his orders.
Anyway, back to the conversation.
Rubel's his usual sly self. His concern was clearly about Teresa, from page 1, but he masks it with curiosity and probing questions. Dae's asking Rubel if he has any objections indicates, I think, that he understands some might have slightly different opinions to his own and is at least willing to entertain such notions, but at the same time I think he trusts his own understanding of the 'strengths' of the Claymores far more than anything else. Rubel, however, seems to have a subtler understanding of 'true strength', but obviously doesn't want to push things that way.
Rubel then deflects suspicion by asking the (admittedly obvious) question about Cassandra. His doubts can then be seen to be directed at the 'physical deficiency' aspect of the explanation, rather than the 'three strongest' aspect.
The question about the second gruesome death was slightly odd. There was almost a sense that Dae was also aware that Miria didn't die, given his question about who confirmed her death. It's fairly easy to guess that Rubel knows that Miria is alive. What we're missing is the intonation of his response.
If done in a slightly mocking manner, one could suspect that they're co-conspirators. If done in a slightly different manner (which I can't think of the words to describe) then it would give the impression that even he wouldn't doubt Miria's death, and that he'd consider it silly that anyone else did.
Ah! now this is a chapter with plot points i've been waiting for for some time...
Now going on what Dea said i find it interesting that (at least in the translation i read) there is the threat of 'rejection' that he is monitoring, now for organ transplants that's fine, but he also mention yoki being filled or something.
Now this raises an interesting point i think in that the claymores have different levels of compatibility to their donor material, which may explain why some are strong and others week. (at least partially)
Also looking at Dea's lab i can't help but think this is the guy who provided the Abyssal Eaters. I know it was said they were made with Awakened material but looking at Cassandra's hacked up rear view i'm back to doubting that the Abyssal Eaters weren't zombies. I.e. claymores that had already died, the scant armour/clothing just covered up the death wounds.
Which makes me wonder since Dea has an idea about the amount he can revive just what is gonna be the monster of the week, next week.
__________________
Everything i've said up to now is speculation... remember that.
Biki Biki Biki Biki... (raaarrrggghhh!!! i need some coffee!)
Now this raises an interesting point i think in that the claymores have different levels of compatibility to their donor material, which may explain why some are strong and others week. (at least partially)
I so called this years ago, but now we have some actual in-setting discussion on the matter.
This will boil down to opinion Gooral, you and several others simply don't believe that the events that led to Miria's survival are plausible, while many posters here think they are perfectly acceptable.
On the flip side, a LOT of people found the events that led to Miria's death to be ridiculous (myself included), but others (such as yourself) found it perfectly acceptable.
You got a follower right here. Still I must say that she got a lot of lucky because of her troll move ( going out there)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics
There was almost a sense that Dae was also aware that Miria didn't die, given his question about who confirmed her death.It's fairly easy to guess that Rubel knows that Miria is alive.
I said before that dae seems to be very arrogant. The type of man that thinks that he is the only one that knows how to do the stuff right. I think that both of them thought that miria was dead, the only difference is that dae saw potential of this warrior( because of the destruction) and was bitching around trying to see if he had some room to get her corpse.It also seems that rubel word would allow this…. ( that why dae was so honey about )
Yeesh.. 100 more posts to go through already, and I haven't even had time to do my own review.
In any case, what I found most interesting this chapter was not Miria, but the conversation between Rubel and Dae at the start, as well as the lackey delivering the message from Limt.
There's a curiosity in the different levels of physical deterioration amongst the MiBs. Dae is clearly way far gone, whereas the lackey (never named, I don't think) looks pretty normal. This leads me to speculate about their origins, and particularly about the early setup of the organization.
Giving it some thought, this is how I see it playing out:
The original idea for the Claymore warriors was devloped by a small group of scientists, intelligent, and dedicated to their cause (at least insofar as they could get funding for their research). This was approved as a preliminary measure, and these scientists and a few close assistants were sent to this hidden continent to test their work.
The initial experimentation was a tentative success, though with issues. A few male Claymores were sent to the battlefield (as seen in Miria's explanation flashback). There were problems, but the government could see enough promise in the project to increase its funding and support. Instead of an experimental project, it became a full-fledged research program.
Along with the funding came the 'support' of more personnel. Expanding the scope of things required more hands, more people, among whom was our lackey from this chapter.
The problem is that he will -always- be a lackey, and knows it. He may be highly placed in the Org, to be delivering messages from Limt himself, but he also knows he will always be second-tier. He's not one of the great geniuses of the Org, like Dae. Rather, he is that dread creature known to businesses throughout the world: the Middle Manager. It's extremely clear from the way he conveys the messages, demanding a timeline for completion, and ordering Rubel to attend an all-hands meeting, that he's frustrated by his own personal lack of power within the Organization.
It also makes me think that the disfigurments of the top echelon of MiBs are due to that transition period, when the project was still experimental. Lack of support personnel meant they had to do all the dangerous work themselves, and the scars are likely a remnant of when things went wrong.
Along those same lines, the guy who was ordering the Claymores around during Miria's attack, and her apparent death, is also likely to be in a very similar position. Probably lower down, actually, since he's merely in charge of the troops, whereas our first lackey is conveying messages among the top leaders. The troop leader is similarly uninterested in pursuing excellence; he just wants to do his job and get out of there, to get away from all these experimental freaks (the Claymores) who just chopped up one of their own like hamburger. He'd be absolutely terrified if they turned on him (and probably felt like they were about to, when he saw their bloody faces stare at him so coldly), so keeps up that front of always making sure they know they have to follow his orders.
Anyway, back to the conversation.
Rubel's his usual sly self. His concern was clearly about Teresa, from page 1, but he masks it with curiosity and probing questions. Dae's asking Rubel if he has any objections indicates, I think, that he understands some might have slightly different opinions to his own and is at least willing to entertain such notions, but at the same time I think he trusts his own understanding of the 'strengths' of the Claymores far more than anything else. Rubel, however, seems to have a subtler understanding of 'true strength', but obviously doesn't want to push things that way.
Rubel then deflects suspicion by asking the (admittedly obvious) question about Cassandra. His doubts can then be seen to be directed at the 'physical deficiency' aspect of the explanation, rather than the 'three strongest' aspect.
The question about the second gruesome death was slightly odd. There was almost a sense that Dae was also aware that Miria didn't die, given his question about who confirmed her death. It's fairly easy to guess that Rubel knows that Miria is alive. What we're missing is the intonation of his response.
If done in a slightly mocking manner, one could suspect that they're co-conspirators. If done in a slightly different manner (which I can't think of the words to describe) then it would give the impression that even he wouldn't doubt Miria's death, and that he'd consider it silly that anyone else did.
Now that post is worked out nicely. The stuff about early stages and lackeys is rather convincing, though I would like to add that it doesn't have to be quite so distant a past with the disfigurements - Dae might have lost half his face where Raphaella lost her eye i.e.
Anyways, while I appreciate the speculation on Rubel/Dae, I fear this will be moot till we have a much clearer translation also spelling out multiple word meanings/ambigueties , that is, gernots As you said the intonation is hard to gauge.
Still, I would rather think that these two are clearly antagonists. Based on your own reasoning of the early days, Dae has invested too much to side with a traitor, furthermore, his perverse frankenstein dedication to his work seems to be what truly drives him (it's unlikely this is just an act for Limt/Rimuto imho) so he would loose his purpose in life (research&creation of perfect warrior/monster hybrid) if he sided with Rubel. There is also the fact that before this chap, upon Dae's return, Rubel remarked that this guy was "troublesome". Clearly that is because Rubel is aware of Dae's sharp and quick mind. Also, as a scientist, Dae seems to be somebody who does not feel encumbered by protocol and etiquette or hierachy - that is to say for Rubel, Dae is dangerous simply because he is probably the most unpredictable of the whole lot.
What did the two of them talk about than, and WHY was Rubel there?
As I see it, it might be Rubel just wanted intel, by praising Dae, and by following Dae's topics of conversation he wanted to get as much as possible out of him.
Or, mor likely actually, Rubel was there for the same reason he sent Clare to Riful/Renee: His keen eye immediately recognized the chance for supreme chaos: It would appear this was a project that was tabooed as too risky so far for a very good reason. Just as Rubel manipulated Clare to go see Riful, he might have been wanting to make sure Dae creates those monsters, monsters which Rubel expects to conveniently go on a rampage and destroy the ORG just the way he wants it to happen. Or in other words, he dropped by to gloat. He had a very predatory smile going just about from one ear to the other listening to Dae ...I tell you while Dae talked ...Rubel was inwardly envisioning the carnage this might very well bring forth for the ORG
Third option, also interesting: Rubel respects, maybe even fears Dae - he was there to gauge just how much Dae might know or suspect about Rubel. This might have been the seemingly playfull but deadly serious banter between
a) the traitor and the one he fears might decloak him and
b) the maniac scientist who has a hunch that the little shit in front of him is the guy constantly throwing wrenches in his plans from the shadows.
Personally I would prefer a mix of the later two reasons
The way that Miria managed to survive was outrageous. But honestly it's way more interesting that way! Now if Yagi could just Dues Ex Machina: the top three of Teresa's generation, the past generation of AO's and the 'components' of the destroyer back to life. Shit would be awesome!
But for now it's more likely that this rebellion will lead to a new balance/stalemate between powers namely: the org, the ghosts and the new AO's that those old number three corpses will become.
Pretty sure that blur was all of those Claymores turning around and taking heading out.
As for "freely walking around" its not like the MiB were doing a head count on the Warriors before sending them off to fight, they just gathered everyone up to give a big speech.
If the warriors were hiding Miria, it probably wasn't too hard for them to sneak her a fresh uniform while she recovered.
Oh right since Miria was "killed" and abandoned her teammates she (also Tabitha) never experienced the aura of anything stronger than an AO or the other new horrors. The rest of the ghosts survived or witnessed Priscilla, AFs, hell cats, infected Beth, the Destroyer and cannon fodder ABs... Crazy stuff. Miria was shocked when she sensed Riful, now she is going to sense super charged rank 1s. Not sure if they would be AO level given they would at least at first fight in Claymore form, but it's three at a time.
Which brings up the very exciting idea of being able to see Awakened forms of these revived warriors. Can they Awaken? If Teresa is revived and does Awaken I would be interested in seeing if her form is similar to Clare's form. We only saw Clare's arms and legs and of course Clare isn't a clone of Teresa. Though I hope they are at least slightly similar.
On the other hand the Awakening process at times seems to be described sort of like Lamarckism evolution in that useful traits can be acquired deliberately. Clare wanted to be fast and got really speedy legs so was it coincidental or did she will it? I would say that Jean and Duphs form also reflect their desires supporting this, but then this also could just be plot writing. I mean if it's not willed imagine Duph getting speedy legs or wings.
Anyways yeah if these warriors Awaken I'm sure their designs will be amazing. No reason they should have Katie's AB form.
All warriors are abyssal level – dae says it. he also says that Cassandra or something was half awakened ( pass her level). The real question is if Teresa may come back or not. At this point is all about liking that or not. I think its possible because only a small part of her has been used even if it is considered vital. Besides that she is the most powerful one ( mib perspective). I would say 50 % and I bet that until all have been show up we will have spoilers saying that teresa has come back.
All warriors are abyssal level – dae says it. he also says that Cassandra or something was half awakened ( pass her level). The real question is if Teresa may come back or not. At this point is all about liking that or not. I think its possible because only a small part of her has been used even if it is considered vital. Besides that she is the most powerful one ( mib perspective). I would say 50 % and I bet that until all have been show up we will have spoilers saying that teresa has come back.
interesting statement, if they already had a subject that was half awakened, wouldn't Rubel's whole goal of stopping the org finding out be redundant? unless dae couldn't experiment while she was dead or it was a case of a close call for Rubel.
I mean considering what we know this cassandra would have to be from atleast 50 years ago well before the time of the ghosts.
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
Quote:
Now we see if the whole organisation led by Miria (stronger than no 1 in team battles) can outdo an Abyssal one.
Not a chance; you can have an army of sheep, they won't stop a wolf.
And FYI, Miria isn't stronger then a No1 in a team; the words are, that she can take any team, and lead them to victory.
Obviously, that can end up being exaggerated quite a bit; against a No1, much less three, they're going to need quality not quantity.
If it was just one No1 warrior, the bulk of the battle will be Miria vs her, and the others can hopefully sneak in some hits...but against three No1's, they are all really better off escaping.
__________________
"You know, their are as many ways to live as their are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look."
Author
Y'd think that she'd had learned to keep from taking everything on herself from all their time in the North - that's Clare's job and looked where it landed her. 
(Thank you Lamia Loveless)
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Still I must say that she got a lot of lucky because of her troll move ( going out there)
