2014-03-15, 04:29 | Link #3061 | ||
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Then, another factor before was that Manaka is just ultra-quick. Not even a split second passes before she's ready intervened. In the case of Tsumugu's boat getting dragged under water she could waste a second or two to look at the sea and scream Tsumugu-kun without another person jumping ahead, as the two quick hitters (Hikari and Manaka) had already jumped. Quote:
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2014-03-15, 05:21 | Link #3062 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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mmm, how many replies ... i couldn't read them all, but I had to stop here to pointing something out.
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So to me he was the opposite of a safe place. He became the safe place later, when the world Chisaki knew collapsed leaving her alone. When she needed him to be her safe place. Tsumugu has always given waht Chisaki needed. Despite what Chisaki thought about that. So even against her will. Like when he said how beautiful she was, but that wasn't enough. So I'd say that she feels comfortable around him despite that. Anyways, here my two cents about Tsumugu, Chisaki and the other guys. I strongly believe that almost everything between Tsumugu and Chisaki happened before the time skip. We had 4 key moments, the first one I said above in which he scolded her. In that event he first "taught" her that lying is a bad thing and at the same time he stood out from the "safe place" guy. In fact Chisaki replied to him saying something about he wasn't the good guy she thought he was. He went against her. Kaname didn't. That was the very moment they "saw" each other I think. Even for Chisaki. Then we got the moment in which Chisaki collapsed and Tsumugu took her to the sea. Before a beautiful scenery they had another confrontation in which Tsumugu went against her. She was saying that she had to change for the wrong reasons, again due to Hikari's. And he without hesitation criticized her behavior and even went further saying how he didn't dislike her as she was. At that point Chisaki said that she hated Tsumugu. Isn't that one of those magic words that in anime implies something else? That was the point from which was clear things could have worked out. They have the chemistry. She was again all tsundere. Then we got the city trip, in which beside the blush moment, the most important event happened on the train going back home. They had a brief conversation in which for the first time Chisaki was interested about something involving him specifically. Then he asked about how he felt something different about her voice and she replied affirmatively but without being explicit about it. And even making a reference on how girls don't like perceptive guys. Letting aside my read of that last sentence specifically, the level of their understanding at that point was already far over the level of every other possible couple around. Except Akari and Itaru. I really liked that moment. Finally that emotional ending. During the ceremony finally Chisaki was able to address those feelings. She dove into the water. Ops, sorry she screamed Tsumugu's name with a tragic expression on her face and then dove into the water. And once on the boat again she hugged him with closed eyes. Now, in your standard romance anime that would mean a sole thing, and I think that was the intent of the author also. BUT, since this is not your standard anime, the moment Chisaki embraced Tsumugu, and figuratively herself ... from that specific moment onward her world suddenly started collapsing around her. First, the guy who confessed to her went MIA because of her. He saved Tsumugu, the guy who she was embracing before Kaname eyes. Then all the other friends disappeared. Her parents also hibernated. She was left completely alone in a unknown village. Living in a stranger new home. And so the time skip happened. So, the grounds of their relationship happened before the time skip in my opinion. And another point I want to make is that the time skip worked against them, not in their favor. Say, it not that if the time skip never happened Kaname could have had any chances. He never had one. Different thing is if Hikari had reciprocated her feelings. But here the difference between Hikari and Tsumugu would have been again the depth Tsumugu and Chisaki already reached against a genuine but shallow crush Chisaki had. Chisaki despite that probably would still had chose Hikari by the way. But here I'm going to far away Anyways the show itself made it clear that the time skip froze everything. And despite that, Chisaki was shown to blush before Tsumugu during that period. But then boom. Grampa's happened. Every time Chisaki was to the point to move a bit something happened. Then everybody returned. And from that point onward everything started to move again, but Chisaki at that point had already regressed to square one. Despite all her changes. She was in denial. And again the moment she asked Tumugu he didn't hold back the truth, despite that was not what Chisaki wanted to hear. So no safe zone there. And still she is so comfortable with him. Another little note I want to make, the sole thing to live in a home for many years doesn't make that home Your Home. So the fact that Chisaki feels Tsumugu's home like her home, as it seems, is very relevant for their picture. Just one last thing. Among Tsumugu, Hikari and Kaname (well Kaname never had a chance, dspite everything he could have done) the show was quite clear which relationship was most beneficial for Chisaki from the very beginning. As I said, she was ready to lie for her crush, then to change for the wrong reasons and after the time skip that crush is still dragging her down. In comparison of Tsumugu's which has always been a push to grow up. For that reason Chisaki had to let it go. And for that same reason i think that now it is just an excuse to not let her past go. Because that's how that crush has always affected her, in a bad way. And to make it clear, that's has nothing to do with Hikari. mmm, I wrote a bit too much I think. Now I'll keep on reading.
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2014-03-15, 05:44 | Link #3064 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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One great applause for Arya who put it all together. I agree with all what you said and I'm so far not disappointed with the coherent direction the show is heading with Chisaki's storyarc.
There is another moment you forgot, IMO, also important. In Episode 2, Chisaki realizes Tsumugu is a real nice person and she thinks that he should stop being so kind because "Manaka already has Hikari." But she didn't want Manaka to have Hikari with her crush, so then...why she blushed red and thought this?
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2014-03-15, 06:07 | Link #3065 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: cloud cuckoo land
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But now, with Chisaki catapulted out of the original group, the roles have changed. Tsumugu is part of her inner circle now which at the same time put some wall between them that makes Chisaki unable to speak as frankly as before: At the end of ep15, it looks like she has something to say, but can't spit it out. In ep22 she denies her disappointment over Tsumugu leaving and it doesn't look like she gave an answer to Tsumugu's question why she thinks it's better not to love someone in ep23. It seems like there are two sorts of "safety": One is the safety a familiar environment or person provides (she thinks she's definitely lost that when she says she's scared to be in Shishio right after Tsumugu's confession). The other "safety" is to have enough faith in yourself and others, i.e. to be able to be your true self without fearing to lose the people dear to you (she shows that in the first cour, but back then, Tsumugu did not have the role he has now in her life).
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2014-03-15, 06:15 | Link #3066 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I'm also not disappointed with Chisaki story arc, even if the waiting has been frustrating as hell. But that still depends on how she will act from now on. Surely I'd like to hear from her something about the guilt she felt about Kaname fate, that's something has been left in the air. maybe the next episode. Maybe. I'm disappointed instead about Tsumugu story arc, he deserved a bit much than the way they explained her back history in two lines. I was expecting something more to be honest.
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2014-03-15, 06:27 | Link #3067 | ||||
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Lots of comments here since I posted last. I may address some more later, but right now, there's two I want to focus on.
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Basically, this much is definitely true: Tsumugu is important to her. He just about has to be - She's lived under the same roof with him for several years. His grandfather is like an adoptive father to her. But now, this begs a question - What exactly is Tsumugu to her? Closest friend? Brother? ...Boyfriend/Husband? You can say "Family", but that alone is a bit vague. People naturally like to define their relationships, especially their closest ones. But Chisaki's relationship with Tsumugu is undefined. It's very close, but undefined. Is it like siblings? Is it like BFFs? Is it like lovers? Chisaki is feeling her own internal pressure to define her relationship with Tsumugu. But then, to define it, she has to make a decision - Platonic or Romantic? To choose platonic, she has to deny her more romantic feelings for Tsumugu (and recent posts on this are correct - Chisaki has shown hints of that even pre-hibernation). To choose romantic, she has to accept real substantial change. I don't think she wants to deny her more romantic feelings for Tsumugu, but she also doesn't want (yet) to accept real substantial change. So, there's a real dilemma here. And that's exactly why Chisaki raced away in fear from Tsumugu after hearing him say "I love Chisaki" - Because now this dilemma is front and center and immediate, and she has to make a hard choice, and she's scared of that. Consider that Chisaki never raced away from Kaname when he confessed to her pre-hibernation - It's because there isn't as big a dilemma there. She knows she's not romantically interested in him. The only dilemma here is execution-based - "How do I let this guy down in a way that won't overly hurt him or ruin the broader friendship dynamic enjoyed by all four of us?" But with Tsumugu, the dilemma is more personal - She has to determine what she wants more for herself: To act on her feelings for Tsumugu, or continue to ground herself in her past and refuse to let it be the past. Quote:
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But just because you don't want to have to deal with change doesn't mean you should try to avoid it forever. To be frank, eventually you have to suck it up, and deal with it. The hibernation was very cruel to Chisaki, and pretty much the entire main cast of this show. But what she's dealing with now isn't cruel. It's just normal life. Accepting change is part of normal everyday life, and that's what Chisaki has to come to terms with. Quote:
The fact that Tsumugu challenged Chisaki is actually part of the reason why he's a safe place to her. A manipulative person tells people what they want to hear in order to curry favor with them. A person who gives you their honest opinion on you, an opinion that s/he knows you won't want to hear - Unless s/he's just being plain mean about it, it's a sign of sincerely caring about you. And I think Chisaki gets that.
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2014-03-15, 07:31 | Link #3069 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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2014-03-15, 08:15 | Link #3070 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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@Kazu-kun, Thess
I think what Sigup was trying to say is that the reason Chisaki jumped for Tsumugu rather than Hikari was not only because she had feelings for him but also because he was the weakest in that situation. To be honest I think even if she had no feelings for him and had time to think I’m sure she would have gone after Tsumugu in that situation. In a situation where you have two important people who are in danger it’s almost an instinct to protect the weakest when the other one can protect himself. What made her react quickly though was because of her feelings. I don’t think Sigup was trying to say Chisaki didn’t have feelings for Tsumugu but that those two factors came into play because to be honest you both make it seem like she had almost no feelings for Hikari or that she had stronger feelings for Tsumugu at that time. This is like saying Chisaki has more feelings for Hikari than Tsumugu at the present time. Now I’m going to add a little bit more and talk about the reason Chisaki has been behaving the way she has so tell me what you all think. In my opinion before the timeskip Chisaki had stronger feelings for Hikari than Tsumugu and after the timeskip she has stronger feelings for Tsumugu than Hikari. The difference is that back then her feeling for Tsumugu were just blossoming and getting stronger while right now her feelings for Hikari are almost gone. I think this was the reason why she avoided him so much because she knew that those feelings for Hikari were almost nonexistent and that she no longer had anything important from her past. Maybe she was afraid that a confrontation with him would prove that. But the moment she admitted that she still liked Hikari it made her happy because even if those feelings weren't as strong as before she still had them. It was an important moment for her and I think she knew that she had to let go but still wanted to hold on to those feeling for a little bit longer. There was no reason to talk or see Hikari anymore as she was slowly letting it go. What she didn’t expect was a confession from Tsumugu. At that moment I think she ran away because she didn’t expect to let go that fast and this was very crucial since by finally accepting her feeling towards Tsumugu it would also mean finally letting go of her crush. |
2014-03-15, 16:04 | Link #3072 | ||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Late response but whatever...
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Of course it's also possible that she's both lying to herself about Hikari and in denial about Tsumugu. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
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2014-03-15, 17:05 | Link #3074 |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I would find Tsumugu to be a pretty boring partner. Chisaki needs to look elsewhere imo. Hikari has more life in him.
Not that I'm shipping Hikari and Chisaki. Why does she have to settle between those 2 when there are more guys out there in the world?
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2014-03-15, 17:24 | Link #3075 | ||
Rewrite of the Life
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Well because we wouldn't have this show I think there is more to Tsumugu than we see. |
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2014-03-15, 17:31 | Link #3076 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Lifemates are not the most 'exciting' people, those are called flings, but people you can get a future with. Now ask yourself, which one actually has a future with Chisaki? She already has a life with Tsumugu. She's no longer a kid, but nearly an adult (20 in Japan is the adult age) with responsibilities and a career while Hikari is a middle school kid who is worried about math homework (when the sea god thing isn't an issue). And that talk? She finds him and her group boring as hell in a normal life basis, that's why she left them with those cream puffs. She admits she preferred the coffee with Tsumugu. Why do you think she doesn't really spend time with Hikari unless there's some extraordinary quest going on? Their lifestyles are mismatched. Of course there are more than these two, but they aren't characters in this show and Chisaki is comfortable and content near Tsumugu. She teases and jokes around him a lot, just to show she's at ease. So while you perceive him boring, Chisaki most likely doesn't. She's not exactly fun personified. That's Manaka.
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Last edited by Thess; 2014-03-15 at 17:45. |
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2014-03-15, 18:09 | Link #3077 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
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I don't agree with Tsumugu being boring, though on top of what Thess said, it's also worth pointing out that one often shows more depth, charisma, and all-around richness of character around their romantic partner than they generally do around most people. "Boyfriend/Girlfriend Mode" can be a very different thing from one's typical baseline personality.
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2014-03-15, 18:11 | Link #3078 | ||
Senior Member
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Like Arya, Thess, yourself, etc... I think that she already loves Tsumugu. I think what's holding her back from fully accepting that is her issues with change in general (however you want to define that). That's the transition she needs to make, in my view - a transition that comes from accepting what's already there. Quote:
Finally, I agree with what Thess wrote about Chisaki. Chisaki's not a genki girl, and she doesn't give me a "partier" vibe. Some people like a smooth, easy-going lifestyle where comfort comes before excitement, and security comes before adventure. I think that's Chisaki, whereas Hikari may well be the opposite. Manaka really is a more compatible match for Hikari's high-energy/high-octane/"loud" approach to life, while Tsumugu's smooth confidence and steely surefootedness and sort of controlled passion is a good match for Chisaki.
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2014-03-15, 18:22 | Link #3079 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2014-03-15, 18:26 | Link #3080 | |
Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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Tsumugu best husbando. He's almost too perfect. If Chisaki ends up with him, she'll be the true winner of this show.
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drama, harem, love polygon, mari okada, p.a. works, romance, seinen |
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