[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Fair enough, but for the very reasons you brought up, I wouldn't trust a single word of it as gospel like I would other parts.

Yeah you rather trust and interpret literally what a demented Eva said before her death.


Anyway I don't really need to trust EP7 tea party at all to conclude that Eva never got that gold

1) The position of the gold was explained in EP7, BEFORE the tea party and I've always argued that it had to be near and not on the kuwadorian.
2) The whole area including the Mansion, the chapel, and the guesthouse exploded leaving a huge crater behind. This isn't something that should be questioned.
3) There is evidence that Eva wasn't swimming in gold soon after the incident and for the following months.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Hmm, I've been thinking a bit bout Bernkastel's game.
Didn't Virgilia (I think ..) say in ep 5 that the players can only manipulate the pieces in a manner that was natural/possible for them to act? Like someone mentioned before you couldn't get Nanjo to build a nuclear reactor.

How could Bern create a game where the characters acted entirely unatural for them?

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

leaving a huge crater behind. This isn't something that should be questioned.
3) There is evidence that Eva wasn't swimming in gold soon after the incident and for the following months.

She would still inherit lots from Kinzo, no? He still had plenty of money, even without the gold.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty

She would still inherit lots from Kinzo, no? He still had plenty of money, even without the gold.

Apparently Krauss managed to waste it all.

[AuraTwilight]

Yeah you rather trust and interpret literally what a demented Eva said before her death.

Yea, but it's her word versus Bern's.

Anyway I don't really need to trust EP7 tea party at all to conclude that Eva never got that gold

1) The position of the gold was explained in EP7, BEFORE the tea party and I've always argued that it had to be near and not on the kuwadorian.
2) The whole area including the Mansion, the chapel, and the guesthouse exploded leaving a huge crater behind. This isn't something that should be questioned.
3) There is evidence that Eva wasn't swimming in gold soon after the incident and for the following months.

1) Granted, but we don't know if it's close enough to Kuwadorian to avoid the blast radius or not.
2) Granted.
3) To be fair, all that gold is illegal tender and Eva doesn't have Kyrie's or Krauss's black market connections; even if she had that gold, trying to use it would just make things worse for her in the media's eye. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it didn't blow it up and she did take it and/or has access to it, she doesn't have much reason or ability to use it.

Then again, she's compared to Kinzo in the way she grew back to power, so she might've done the "single bar of gold" trick.

Didn't Virgilia (I think ..) say in ep 5 that the players can only manipulate the pieces in a manner that was natural/possible for them to act? Like someone mentioned before you couldn't get Nanjo to build a nuclear reactor.

How could Bern create a game where the characters acted entirely unatural for them?

For what it's worth, it wasn't a game; it was a show.

And it's not so much "what is possible for them" so much as "what is believable." The idea is that if the readers can't BELIEVE that the characters would act this way, they're not gonna swallow it. After all, just look at Kinzo; he can be treated any possible way, and they all contradict.

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Apparently Krauss managed to waste it all.

On a resort on the moon, no less.

(Well, that wasn't his latest blunder, but it was still beyond stupid.)

[Mcjon01]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

On a resort on the moon, no less.

(Well, that wasn't his latest blunder, but it was still beyond stupid.)

Just you wait, When They Cry 5 is going to be about murders in a moon resort, with references to how its construction was funded by a visionary Japanese businessman a few decades earlier who tragically died before he could see the fruits of his efforts.

It would be too perfect.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

3) To be fair, all that gold is illegal tender and Eva doesn't have Kyrie's or Krauss's black market connections; even if she had that gold, trying to use it would just make things worse for her in the media's eye. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it didn't blow it up and she did take it and/or has access to it, she doesn't have.

Granted. It is possible that she simply couldn't use the gold.
However the other two points stand.

Then again I guess you could say that Eva still saw herself as the possessor of 10 tons of gold particles scattered around a 1km wide crater on an island that was sealed of by the police. And technically she is... so Ange did inherit that gold. But the point remains that Ange never saw an ounce of that huge mountain of gold and therefore she doesn't have any certainty of its existence.

[Renall]

I'm still not firmly convinced it existed at all, especially if red can be contextual and details can be changed on the fly.

For the sake of argument, if it did still exist, it would probably have just barely survived in the tunnels. Who knows? Maybe a passageway collapsed and it's there, but inaccessible. Eva could've gotten it out eventually, but it would have required a lot of suspicious contractors.

And if it does still exist and is accessible, Eva doesn't seem to have bothered to tell Ange how to get to it. So unless Okonogi knows, it'll be forgotten about.

[AuraTwilight]

Granted. It is possible that she simply couldn't use the gold.
However the other two points stand.

Then again I guess you could say that Eva still saw herself as the possessor of 10 tons of gold particles scattered around a 1km wide crater on an island that was sealed of by the police. And technically she is... so Ange did inherit that gold. But the point remains that Ange never saw an ounce of that huge mountain of gold and therefore she doesn't have any certainty of its existence.

But then, Ange jumped off a building and then started running from mobster families to go on a crazy adventure to Skull Island, so it's not like she could've sat down and picked up her inheritance even if this gold was in some safe somewhere.

[unsuspectingvisitor]

its possible that eva took one or two gold bar as she escape.

[Jan-Poo]

Unlikely since she was found by a rescue squad. It's not like he could hide the gold bars. Unless she hid those in the kuwadorian and retrieved them later.


As I side note. I just realized that in EP4 it's stated that Eva had Kinzo's ring and Ange is now wearing it. And it is even said that the artisan that made it confirms it is the one. However I don't think this was mentioned at all in chiru.

Can we still consider this a fact? Because if this was true, we could conclude that Eva actually solved the epitaph in Rokkenjima Prime.

[FirstTwilight]

She was the one that did most of the epitaph-solving stuffs in the TP, wasn't she?
I guess, in the fragments where the adults find the gold she's always the most competent and determined, and thus she gets the ring... she solved it alone in ep III, after all.

Or she stole it from Krauss or Yasu body...

[Jan-Poo]

From the EP7 tea party there is no particular person that was acknowledged as solving the epitaph. Eva's contribution was instrumental in solving the epitaph but I don't think it can be said that it was more important that Kyrie's or Rosa's.

At any rate Beatrice doesn't recognize any particular person as the true solver, and more importantly: she doesn't mention the ring at all nor it is mentioned in any part of the tea party.

I wonder... did Ryuukishi just forgot about it? If Eva really came back with the head's ring on her finger Bernkastel would want to explain that fact in her story right?

[Jaden]

I always thought the 1995 Eva had gotten away from the island at least with the cash card, if not the gold. Because her family fortune at that point is pretty much gone, yet she keeps living like the bourgeois and is still able to maintain dignity as the head of the family.

Normally you'd think she would be in trouble with all the debt her family had accumulated, and with even the mansion that was used as collateral blown away...

She must've gotten the cash card and found her way to Kuwadorian somehow. Because she goes there, she probably knows about the bomb? Because she doesn't take her own family along and is crushed about their loss, her husband and son must be dead by that point?

The episode 7 tea party is hard to swallow, but I feel it must be close to the truth..it has very little contradictions at least.

[Thanatos of Crows]

Spoiler for about the ring, ep8 stuff included:

Eva could have solved the epitaph alone while "Beatrice" was in the room, and thus inherited the ring as the clear head of the family, but that rises the question of why did the explosion occur and why did Battler and Beato escape the island by speed boat while Eva hid in Kuwadorian? (I've not read ep8 so I have to rely on what I've heard here.) The escape and Beato's suicide refer to her killing atleast some relatives, doesn't it? That also contradicts the possibility of Beato knowing about Eva solving the epitaph (she'd have inherited the title) and for that reason her getting the ring from a corpse seems likely (but wasn't Krauss' ring a different one, the ring of the substitute head?), so we're faced with a complicated series of events, eh? Yasu was probably Beato only in Battler's eyes during the escape, after giving the ring away. Getting badly off topic here, but as said, to get the head's ring Eva must've received it from Beatrice, IMO.

[FirstTwilight]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

From the EP7 tea party there is no particular person that was acknowledged as solving the epitaph. Eva's contribution was instrumental in solving the epitaph but I don't think it can be said that it was more important that Kyrie's or Rosa's.

I got confused with shroedinger comic where she claims she solved it, alright.

At any rate Beatrice doesn't recognize any particular person as the true solver, and more importantly: she doesn't mention the ring at all nor it is mentioned in any part of the tea party.

I wonder... did Ryuukishi just forgot about it? If Eva really came back with the head's ring on her finger Bernkastel would want to explain that fact in her story right?

I really doubt that, he foreshadowed practically EVERYTHING of Umineko, i doubt he'd forget about it.

I think the body theory is most likely, after the duel with Kyrie she probably had time to go back and get things before everything blow up. Or Ep. III Ange and Eva are simply not Rokkenjima-Prime Ange and Eva. Evatrice getting the ring makes more sense.

[AuraTwilight]

Can we still consider this a fact? Because if this was true, we could conclude that Eva actually solved the epitaph in Rokkenjima Prime.

How else could she have gotten to Kuwadorian?

At any rate Beatrice doesn't recognize any particular person as the true solver, and more importantly: she doesn't mention the ring at all nor it is mentioned in any part of the tea party.

I wonder... did Ryuukishi just forgot about it? If Eva really came back with the head's ring on her finger Bernkastel would want to explain that fact in her story right?

Plothole in Bern's Tea Party #487.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by FirstTwilight

I really doubt that, he foreshadowed practically EVERYTHING of Umineko, i doubt he'd forget about it.

I don't share that opinion. I'm playing the PS3 version of the first 4 arcs at the moment and I keep noticing how many things do not fit with the only things that are (almost) certain about this story.
Just to name one Maria says in different instances that she learned how to write magic circles with Beatrice, but in EP7 it's revealed that she actually already knew those and she taught them to Beatrice.

That's just one... I could make a huge list but that's just not worth my time.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

How else could she have gotten to Kuwadorian?

Battler does as well (well the same tunnel). Eva doesn't need to have solved the riddle herself or alone, for example if she solved the riddle together with everyone else (like in EP7 tea party) that still would explain how she reached the Kuwadorian.

The ring would suggest that she solved the epitaph by herself and therefore became the new heir. Unless she just pried it from someone's cold hands... but I doubt the ring would ever pop up if someone didn't solve the epitaph anyway.

If Eva actually has the ring then I think it would be almost certain that someone solved the epitaph in Rokkenjima Prime.
Then again... that's probably true either way...

[UsagiTenpura]

Yeah I was thinking the arc 5 scenario is actually the most likely outcome of someone solving the epitaph (solving it and then showing the gold to everyone else, unlike what Eva did in arc 3), so as long as someone solves the epitaph most people if not everyone should learn how to go to Kuwadorian.

[AuraTwilight]

Just to name one Maria says in different instances that she learned how to write magic circles with Beatrice, but in EP7 it's revealed that she actually already knew those and she taught them to Beatrice.

She could have taught Beatrice some initially, then Beatrice taught her some.