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Xacual · 2009-10-03, 16:52

I did run vanilla WoW to completion. The thing you are forgetting that in Kel'thuzad room, those aren't windows. Those are portals, so of course they are portals to northrend where the scourge and reinforcements are. Also lets see, BC hit January 07, it was originally slated for a november release but got moved to december and then to january and had to be moved back 2 months because of beta testing going longer. I was in that beta and I also know blizz never stated any release date except for the november one. Original WoW had a life span of 2 years 2 months, so I don't see how BC was pushed back 18 months, that would mean it was supposed to come out before BWL? Your exaggerations don't make any sense. Naxxramas was announced before AQ had come to live servers, we got to play AQ at Blizzcon05, this was in Orctober of 05. The reason the patch was called "Shadows of the Necropolis" was because of the event with all the Necropolis flying above cities and attacking them.

Also Blizz has said multiple times that all of Icecrown will be on the PTR. Right now they had a bug with one of the 5mans or there would be 2 of the 3 on the PTR at this moment. Also normal like spellfiles are fine, but when boss / animation / item spellfiles get put in you can expect stuff coming out soon. Go to mmo-champion, you can see screenshots now of almost the entire raid zone. That is all from the PTR patch. There is no way Cataclysm will hit in a year from now. The starting zones for goblins and worgen are done, they were seen at Blizzcon. From screenshots we can see that most of the old zones have already been revamped. We're just at the start of October, 3 months until Icecrown, so maybe sometime in December, then 4-5 months for that content before Cataclysm comes. Maybe a month with Cataclysm patch on the live servers before it gets released for real. I can't see a day beyond June for it. WotLK was beta tested for about 3 months. BC about 5 months.

I just realized what I typed might sound harsh, sorry I just don't like exaggerations about Blizzard and their developement times. WoW has gotten much better about speedy releases, of course they've lost quality since we see tons of errors on patch days.

Quzor · 2009-10-04, 00:34

So I had this whole long post written out, then I hit the wrong button and BAM!...it was gone.

Basically I realize that I over-exaggerated, and so I'm sorry for that. A bit of the information I iterated, I had misconstrued in my memory (announcement of BC v. release date announcement for BC). Essentially, I probably talked a little bit about things I didn't have direct knowledge of, especially since I didn't go to Blizzcon back then. So, sorry about that.

All that being said, I still think it's going to take them a good deal of time to get Icecrown out. I'm speculating that the release of 3.3 will determine the player-base that continues on into Cataclysm. As such, I would imagine that Blizz wants to make sure when 3.3 is implemented, it is as bug free as possible. Consider also, that so many of the enemy models are not even implemented yet, and that many that are implemented are not the final models. Consider also, that a good portion of the Icecrown raid bosses are going to have to undergo testing, which was a month long for Ulduar.

Overall, I want to share your optimism, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'd love to see 3.3 in 3 months, but I really don't think it's going to land for about 4 or 5. ToC is still fresh for a huge percentage of the player-base, who've not even come close to completing Heroic. While I'm sure they sense the urgency to get some new content to us, I'm sure they're also considering the awful state that 3.2 landed with, and working to avoid a repeat of that incident.

Jaden · 2009-10-05, 07:53

Well, it's still possible that there will be a 3.4 with more wotlk content, Icecrown doesn't have to be the end. Just like killing Illidan wasn't the end in BC, they might roll out some suprise raid instances again.

Or they could fail and resurrect more old content. Onyxia is such a joke, I really hope that won't become a trend.

Xellos · 2009-10-05, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaden

Or they could fail and resurrect more old content. Onyxia is such a joke, I really hope that won't become a trend.

I believe they only redid Onyxia to celebrate the anniversary of the original. They intended it to be a loot pinata and not progression.

Quzor · 2009-10-05, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

I believe they only redid Onyxia to celebrate the anniversary of the original. They intended it to be a loot pinata and not progression.

Even GC said this, directly.

As for Illidan and the end of BC, that was never the intention. Kil'jaedan was always intended to be the final raid boss of BC, though their timing in releasing that dungeon was sub-par in comparison to some of the earlier releases.

All told, BC was the more appropriately handled expansion of the two, in my opinion. Plenty of release content available, so that they could take Black Temple, give it some time, and release it with a quality drop. Also, even though it took a while, Sunwell Plateau released with very few issues, and was a general success in both difficulty and availability.

Wrath has been a bit of a cluster-bomb dropped on Azeroth, as far as I'm concerned. They started getting too antsy about releases, and forgot about the quality. Both 3.1 and 3.2 launched with MASSIVE issues, starting with just being able to log into the game. I am quite sure that Blizzard does not want a repeat of those incidents, and I'm hoping that they're doing everything they can to avoid them, even if it means pushing back the release of the patch.

As for Icecrown, it's the end of WotLK. After all, the expansion is called Wrath of the Lich King, and Arthas is the Lich King. Once he's dead, there's nowhere for that story to progress. Consider also that Cataclysm is going to drop in 2010 (whenever it does, it's still slated to drop next year). I'm sure IC will be far big enough to keep even the most avid guilds occupied, via hardmodes and achievements, for whatever time remains before the next expansion drops.

Ithekro · 2009-10-05, 14:32

And now for something completely different.....

Patch 3.4...."Bring out your Undead"

Phase revamp to post Icecrown where those that have killed the Lich King need to clean up his mess in Northrend and the Plaguelands. Or is there a new Lich King controlling the Scourge? Adds some of the WoW 4.0 changes early to Northend and the Plaugelands. New Instance...um...Balargarde Fortress. Raid..."Naxx III"/Malykriss: The Vile Hold duels Acherus: The Ebon Hold...everyone will be busy cleaning up all the level 82+ elites in the Eastern Plauglands.....

Just to be silly.

Clarste · 2009-10-05, 15:16

They've stated that they intend the Lich King to be the final boss of the expansion. No need to speculate, they've told us directly. They've also told us that they want to release expansions more often, so I wouldn't be surprised to see their development cycle speed up.

Last Sinner · 2009-10-05, 18:19

Well, Brewfest was pretty good for me. 4 mounts, 5 remote and 6 tankards across the toons I did it on.

Spoiler for brew-fast:

Ithekro · 2009-10-05, 18:28

I did the bare minimum to get the achievements. Only one Direbrew run (almost had to con my way into a group, though I was telling the truth, I'd never done the quest before)...All five drops were trinkets..One of them twice. Since everyone else in the group was going for probably the tenth time, I was allowed to pick up all but the duplicate...not that they'll all be useful (What Warlock needs an increased dodge rating or a attack power bonus on weapon hit chance) The spell power bonus on spell hit chance is sort of nice and the other one with the +170 Stamina might be useful...if I wanted to drop my engineering trinket that provides spell power and a shield bubble.

Clarste · 2009-10-05, 18:33

I only killed Direbrew once, for the achievement. All his drops were worthless to me, so I never bothered.

Quzor · 2009-10-05, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

the other one with the +170 Stamina might be useful...

I have both of those trinkets on my warrior. I actually wear them for tanking, because many of the tanking trinkets suck, especially when compared against 340 extra stam/3600 extra health.

gummybear · 2009-10-06, 17:17

Quote:

As for Icecrown, it's the end of WotLK. After all, the expansion is called Wrath of the Lich King, and Arthas is the Lich King. Once he's dead, there's nowhere for that story to progress.

I have a big feeling that he won't die, he's going to pull a "escape with 1 hp" thing and you loot his stash

Xacual · 2009-10-06, 19:12

Nah he is going to die, the roster of strong npcs that are coming with us, seems to point to a resolution in his story. It also makes sense too because to be honest the Lich King might be strong but he isn't even in the top 10 of the Warcraft universe for villiany, he is just the most immediate current threat. I mean if you get right down to it, Yogg-Saron was a bigger threat then Arthas. Next Expac we're going to see three threats, Deathwing, Azshara, and most likely the old god that turned the highborne into Naga. All of those according to the RPG books I believe rank higher then the Lich King in strength.

Of course eventually we'll have to likely fight Kil'jaeden again, and this time when he isn't half summoned and likely Sargeras right after that....

Also as an aside, ToGC10, 49 attempts remaining because of a stupid faction champs wipe nooooo!!

Clarste · 2009-10-06, 19:25

Arthas is almost cettainly going to die. Vashj, Kael, and Illidan all died, and Arthas really isn't any more important than them. However, it seems likely that his death will be accompanied by a scene where an important character finishes him off, rather than merely dying at the hands of 25 random heroes.

Kyero Fox · 2009-10-06, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Arthas is almost cettainly going to die. Vashj, Kael, and Illidan all died, and Arthas really isn't any more important than them. However, it seems likely that his death will be accompanied by a scene where an important character finishes him off, rather than merely dying at the hands of 25 random heroes.

thus why i hate WoW's PVE, you're just pawns pretty much. I want to see a cutscene of my character finishing off a big boss. Aion,ToR, Final Fantasy XI are MMO's that do this

Well aslong as the Ashbringer is the one who takes him down, if its anyone else... I'll suicide bomb Blizzard studios

Xacual · 2009-10-06, 20:14

Really? I prefer seeing a named npc get the killing blow because I don't really agree that our characters should be strong enough to do that.

Ithekro · 2009-10-06, 20:54

Well there is a fair list of potenal npcs in this fight. Varian and Thrall. Maybe Jaina and Hellscream. Bronzebeard (Frostborn King) wants to have a few words with Arthus. That Dreadlord wants revenge on the Lich King. Plus the Ashbringer and the Ebon Blade's got some unfinished business with the Lich King.

Arthus is dead....but then he is already dead. It won't be about Arthus...this is about Frostmourne.

RWBladewing · 2009-10-06, 20:55

I think for the first time in the history of the universe I am going to agree with Kyero Fox. Yeah, maybe it's stupid storywise if the mighty Llegolazz of <Your Moms a Horde> is the one to kill Arthas and they don't have to make it canon, but at least as far as my game experience goes I want to be the one to do it. It's lame to just be a pawn who softens him up for someone else. Not to mention, player characters are already legendary heroes who have beaten Nefarian, C'thun, Vashj, Kael'thas and Yogg-Saron without someone else interfering, so a precedent has been set. I don't want my characters to just be some random scrubs who are only able to weaken Arthas because that's all they "should" be able to do.

Quzor · 2009-10-06, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Arthas is almost cettainly going to die. Vashj, Kael, and Illidan all died, and Arthas really isn't any more important than them. However, it seems likely that his death will be accompanied by a scene where an important character finishes him off, rather than merely dying at the hands of 25 random heroes.

LIES! Tempest Keep was merely a setback!!!

Sorry, I had to =P

...IN THE MOUNTAINS!

On topic; who do you suspect is going to "do in" Arthas? Fordring? Mograine? Someone else?

Ithekro · 2009-10-06, 21:03

Well...judging by the way the quest chains go in Icecrown..."You" are the hero now. Unlike before were it was, "go fo this"...."oh you're done...good...here's some coin and a nifty pair of boots...now get out of here, you bother me"....now, the npc's cheer for you everytime you are nearby. The main NPCs even call you "the hero".

While the players, may or may not deliver the final blow...they will be recognzed by the NPCs this time.

But as they said...no one gets Frostmourne...one assumes it will be destroyed, either at the climax of the fight, or right afterwards...no new Lich King......

...."Hail to the King, baby."

2009-10-03, 16:52	Link #4081
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	I did run vanilla WoW to completion. The thing you are forgetting that in Kel'thuzad room, those aren't windows. Those are portals, so of course they are portals to northrend where the scourge and reinforcements are. Also lets see, BC hit January 07, it was originally slated for a november release but got moved to december and then to january and had to be moved back 2 months because of beta testing going longer. I was in that beta and I also know blizz never stated any release date except for the november one. Original WoW had a life span of 2 years 2 months, so I don't see how BC was pushed back 18 months, that would mean it was supposed to come out before BWL? Your exaggerations don't make any sense. Naxxramas was announced before AQ had come to live servers, we got to play AQ at Blizzcon05, this was in Orctober of 05. The reason the patch was called "Shadows of the Necropolis" was because of the event with all the Necropolis flying above cities and attacking them. Also Blizz has said multiple times that all of Icecrown will be on the PTR. Right now they had a bug with one of the 5mans or there would be 2 of the 3 on the PTR at this moment. Also normal like spellfiles are fine, but when boss / animation / item spellfiles get put in you can expect stuff coming out soon. Go to mmo-champion, you can see screenshots now of almost the entire raid zone. That is all from the PTR patch. There is no way Cataclysm will hit in a year from now. The starting zones for goblins and worgen are done, they were seen at Blizzcon. From screenshots we can see that most of the old zones have already been revamped. We're just at the start of October, 3 months until Icecrown, so maybe sometime in December, then 4-5 months for that content before Cataclysm comes. Maybe a month with Cataclysm patch on the live servers before it gets released for real. I can't see a day beyond June for it. WotLK was beta tested for about 3 months. BC about 5 months. I just realized what I typed might sound harsh, sorry I just don't like exaggerations about Blizzard and their developement times. WoW has gotten much better about speedy releases, of course they've lost quality since we see tons of errors on patch days. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy Last edited by Xacual; 2009-10-03 at 17:18.

2009-10-04, 00:34	Link #4082
Quzor It's the year 3030... Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Spaceport Colony Sicilia Age: 39	So I had this whole long post written out, then I hit the wrong button and BAM!...it was gone. Basically I realize that I over-exaggerated, and so I'm sorry for that. A bit of the information I iterated, I had misconstrued in my memory (announcement of BC v. release date announcement for BC). Essentially, I probably talked a little bit about things I didn't have direct knowledge of, especially since I didn't go to Blizzcon back then. So, sorry about that. All that being said, I still think it's going to take them a good deal of time to get Icecrown out. I'm speculating that the release of 3.3 will determine the player-base that continues on into Cataclysm. As such, I would imagine that Blizz wants to make sure when 3.3 is implemented, it is as bug free as possible. Consider also, that so many of the enemy models are not even implemented yet, and that many that are implemented are not the final models. Consider also, that a good portion of the Icecrown raid bosses are going to have to undergo testing, which was a month long for Ulduar. Overall, I want to share your optimism, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I'd love to see 3.3 in 3 months, but I really don't think it's going to land for about 4 or 5. ToC is still fresh for a huge percentage of the player-base, who've not even come close to completing Heroic. While I'm sure they sense the urgency to get some new content to us, I'm sure they're also considering the awful state that 3.2 landed with, and working to avoid a repeat of that incident. __________________

2009-10-05, 14:32	Link #4086
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	And now for something completely different..... Patch 3.4...."Bring out your Undead" Phase revamp to post Icecrown where those that have killed the Lich King need to clean up his mess in Northrend and the Plaguelands. Or is there a new Lich King controlling the Scourge? Adds some of the WoW 4.0 changes early to Northend and the Plaugelands. New Instance...um...Balargarde Fortress. Raid..."Naxx III"/Malykriss: The Vile Hold duels Acherus: The Ebon Hold...everyone will be busy cleaning up all the level 82+ elites in the Eastern Plauglands..... Just to be silly. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2009-10-05 at 14:47.

2009-10-05, 18:19	Link #4088
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Well, Brewfest was pretty good for me. 4 mounts, 5 remote and 6 tankards across the toons I did it on. Spoiler for brew-fast: __________________

2009-10-05, 18:28	Link #4089
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I did the bare minimum to get the achievements. Only one Direbrew run (almost had to con my way into a group, though I was telling the truth, I'd never done the quest before)...All five drops were trinkets..One of them twice. Since everyone else in the group was going for probably the tenth time, I was allowed to pick up all but the duplicate...not that they'll all be useful (What Warlock needs an increased dodge rating or a attack power bonus on weapon hit chance) The spell power bonus on spell hit chance is sort of nice and the other one with the +170 Stamina might be useful...if I wanted to drop my engineering trinket that provides spell power and a shield bubble. __________________

2009-10-05, 07:53	Link #4083
Jaden Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Well, it's still possible that there will be a 3.4 with more wotlk content, Icecrown doesn't have to be the end. Just like killing Illidan wasn't the end in BC, they might roll out some suprise raid instances again. Or they could fail and resurrect more old content. Onyxia is such a joke, I really hope that won't become a trend.

2009-10-05, 15:16	Link #4087
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	They've stated that they intend the Lich King to be the final boss of the expansion. No need to speculate, they've told us directly. They've also told us that they want to release expansions more often, so I wouldn't be surprised to see their development cycle speed up.

2009-10-05, 18:33	Link #4090
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	I only killed Direbrew once, for the achievement. All his drops were worthless to me, so I never bothered.

2009-10-06, 19:12	Link #4093
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Nah he is going to die, the roster of strong npcs that are coming with us, seems to point to a resolution in his story. It also makes sense too because to be honest the Lich King might be strong but he isn't even in the top 10 of the Warcraft universe for villiany, he is just the most immediate current threat. I mean if you get right down to it, Yogg-Saron was a bigger threat then Arthas. Next Expac we're going to see three threats, Deathwing, Azshara, and most likely the old god that turned the highborne into Naga. All of those according to the RPG books I believe rank higher then the Lich King in strength. Of course eventually we'll have to likely fight Kil'jaeden again, and this time when he isn't half summoned and likely Sargeras right after that.... Also as an aside, ToGC10, 49 attempts remaining because of a stupid faction champs wipe nooooo!! __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2009-10-06, 19:25	Link #4094
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Arthas is almost cettainly going to die. Vashj, Kael, and Illidan all died, and Arthas really isn't any more important than them. However, it seems likely that his death will be accompanied by a scene where an important character finishes him off, rather than merely dying at the hands of 25 random heroes.

2009-10-06, 20:14	Link #4096
Xacual Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Really? I prefer seeing a named npc get the killing blow because I don't really agree that our characters should be strong enough to do that. __________________ I was influenced by a certain group overflowing with madness and started trying to write a story. Please give it a try. Crashed into Fantasy

2009-10-06, 20:54	Link #4097
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Well there is a fair list of potenal npcs in this fight. Varian and Thrall. Maybe Jaina and Hellscream. Bronzebeard (Frostborn King) wants to have a few words with Arthus. That Dreadlord wants revenge on the Lich King. Plus the Ashbringer and the Ebon Blade's got some unfinished business with the Lich King. Arthus is dead....but then he is already dead. It won't be about Arthus...this is about Frostmourne. __________________

2009-10-06, 20:55	Link #4098
RWBladewing Salt Levels Critical Join Date: Oct 2007	I think for the first time in the history of the universe I am going to agree with Kyero Fox. Yeah, maybe it's stupid storywise if the mighty Llegolazz of <Your Moms a Horde> is the one to kill Arthas and they don't have to make it canon, but at least as far as my game experience goes I want to be the one to do it. It's lame to just be a pawn who softens him up for someone else. Not to mention, player characters are already legendary heroes who have beaten Nefarian, C'thun, Vashj, Kael'thas and Yogg-Saron without someone else interfering, so a precedent has been set. I don't want my characters to just be some random scrubs who are only able to weaken Arthas because that's all they "should" be able to do.

2009-10-06, 21:03	Link #4100
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Well...judging by the way the quest chains go in Icecrown..."You" are the hero now. Unlike before were it was, "go fo this"...."oh you're done...good...here's some coin and a nifty pair of boots...now get out of here, you bother me"....now, the npc's cheer for you everytime you are nearby. The main NPCs even call you "the hero". While the players, may or may not deliver the final blow...they will be recognzed by the NPCs this time. But as they said...no one gets Frostmourne...one assumes it will be destroyed, either at the climax of the fight, or right afterwards...no new Lich King...... ...."Hail to the King, baby." __________________