Fate/ Series Q&A

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Would a D-ranked F-15 be considered in a special category? It seems a B-rank in the average of a Noble Phantasm (minus those with special effects, merely raw power [Lancer's Gae Bolg and Tsubame Gaeshi (a skill with the power to match a NP comes to mind])

Spoiler:

However – no matter how extraordinary the Heroic Spirit may be, the 12,000 rounds-per-minute of the pride of America's General Electric, the M61 autocannon, presented an unmanageable amount of shots. Worse yet, as a weapon carrying the properties of a Noble Phantasm due to Berserker’s prana, a single shot would instantly be fatal.

His weapon of choice is Arondight, which is an A+ Noble Phantasm weapon that increases all of his parameters.... and an tree branch (which took form in his other Noble Phantasm, Knight of Honor: any object which is conceptualized as a weapon becomes a D-ranked NP which he mastered).

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Would a D-ranked F-15 be considered in a special category? It seems a B-rank in the average of a Noble Phantasm (minus those with special effects, merely raw power [Lancer's Gae Bolg and Tsubame Gaeshi (a skill with the power to match a NP comes to mind])

Rank /= power. The rank of a Noble Phantasm is more of a measure of the strength of its "concept". A rank E Noble Phantasm can still be more destructive than a rank A one. The only time rank matters is when it is a direct clash of concepts, like with Berserker's God Hand.

[DaItalianFish]

Can Servants sense Magi/Masters? Like normally a Magus can tell if another person is a Magus. So would a Servant (excluding caster) be able to do the same? Along the same lines, can a Servant tell if a person is a Master even if that person isn't a Magus?

Also this is kind of a random question, and contains spoilers for Fate and UBW

Spoiler:

Do you think Archer would be surprised to see Shirou project Caliburn and use it properly with Saber, like how they did against Berserker? Considering we know little of how Archer's version of the Grail War went down, I also question how he would react to seeing Saber and Shirou so close (like, romantically). Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, thanks for the help earlier everybody.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by bhl88

His weapon of choice is Arondight, which is an A+ Noble Phantasm weapon that increases all of his parameters.... and an tree branch (which took form in his other Noble Phantasm, Knight of Honor: any object which is conceptualized as a weapon becomes a D-ranked NP which he mastered).

You know what I meant, why the hell would you bring Arondight into this? Why would you tell me all this stuff I never asked about? I -thought- his weapon of choice would get upgraded to B rank, I guess I was wrong about that, -that's all I wanted to know-.



Jeez.

Originally Posted by DaItalianFish

Can Servants sense Magi/Masters? Like normally a Magus can tell if another person is a Magus. So would a Servant (excluding caster) be able to do the same? Along the same lines, can a Servant tell if a person is a Master even if that person isn't a Magus?

Hard to say and depends on the individual servant, but in general, either they can't, or they can sense a master as well as a normal magus without a command seal can. It partly depends on what their abilities with magic were when they were alive.

Originally Posted by DaItalianFish

Also this is kind of a random question, and contains spoilers for Fate and UBW

Spoiler:

Do you think Archer would be surprised to see Shirou project Caliburn and use it properly with Saber, like how they did against Berserker? Considering we know little of how Archer's version of the Grail War went down, I also question how he would react to seeing Saber and Shirou so close (like, romantically). Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, thanks for the help earlier everybody.

Spoiler:

It's possible the Archer actually did the same thing back when he was Shirou. We know he isn't from any of the canon timelines, but at the very least it's very likely that his timeline had many similarities to the Fate route.

[Brother Coa]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Spoiler:

It's possible the Archer actually did the same thing back when he was Shirou. We know he isn't from any of the canon timelines, but at the very least it's very likely that his timeline had many similarities to the Fate route.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

But didn't Archer said in UBW that by Shirou meting him he is already set on path of not becoming Heroic Spirit Emiya?
So Arher is in fact not Shirou from Fate/Stay Night at all but from some other reality.

Also, this could also be explained by Archer simply knowing who Saber is, it's not hard projecting a legendary weapon if you know how it looks like and you have ability to do so.

[Dengar]

Do you... Understand the meaning of "Many similarities"?

[Brother Coa]

I know, that is why I think that he is some reality where nothing happened like we saw in all three routes but totally different instead.

[Dengar]

Well, it makes sense to me for Archer's "Route" to be a lot like the Fate scenario. But I'll at the very least admit it's hard to tell since even Word of God is inconclusive.

[DaItalianFish]

Well in terms of similarities to the other routes, there is no doubt the end result would have been similar to the Fate route.

Spoiler:

This is kinda obvious seeing as Shirou ends with Rin in UBW, whereas Archer didn't even know that the person who saved him was Rin. And Heaven's Feel is self-explanatory. So Fate is pretty much guaranteed to be the most similar.

At the same time, that doesn't have to mean the actual events of the war were similar to Fate.

Spoiler:

A big key thing to understand is that Nasu has said the chances of Shirou becoming Archer from ANY of the known routes is basically zero. So the real question is: why is that? If we only look at the Fate route, the most likely reason would be Shirou's love for Saber. But there could have been other reasons as well. Like if the speculation that Shinji was the one who betrayed Archer in life is true, that would be another difference from Fate, and might've also played a part in Shirou's transformation into Archer.

[Brother Coa]

Spoiler for Spoiler:

We know Archer cannot be Shirou from Fate route as he ends up with Saber in Avalon after he dies.
In UBW Rin took care of him so he presumably never becomes Archer there.
Haven's Feel is self-explanatory, aldo I suspect he is mostly from there but then again...

As I said, aldo he bares similarity from Fate route he is in fact from some entirely different one. One that have no connection to the three ones established in F/SN. Giving that in Fate universe the multiuniverse theory is correct and for each decision another universe is made we can only guess what Shirou is he from endless different universes.

You just got to love Japanese and their Visual Novels with different ending that are all canon...
Multiuniverse theory is God here it seems.

[Dengar]

But... I never said Archer came from Fate route, where are you getting this idea from?

[Brother Coa]

Sorry, to me 'very likely' and 'guaranteed to be the most similar' is the same as "it is".

[Dengar]

That... doesn't even make sense. If something is "similar" it automatically means it's "different". Else it would be "identical".

[DaItalianFish]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Sorry, to me 'very likely' and 'guaranteed to be the most similar' is the same as "it is".

'Guaranteed to be the most similar' is not the same as 'it is'. It just means that it is the MOST similar out of the three routes, which honestly could mean anything. If the other two routes are incredibly different, Fate being the most similar could just mean as little as 'Shirou ate breakfast on Tuesday both times'.

And like you said, his route would bare similarity to the Fate route. Which is exactly what I said, just worded differently...

[Sansker]

Well now we are discussing semantics and really that phrase can mean anything so there is no answer, and no question. Making this an argument best suited for the thread of the series itself

[Dengar]

It matters when people are refuting arguments I never made. I severely despise word twisting just so you can"be right".

[Brother Coa]

I never said that you said that Archer came from Fate route, I just said that he may come from some other universe tied with Fate but totally different than what we saw in Visual Novel.
And as I said when someone tells me "similar" or "mostly" I take that like it is 100% like that. But I am just like that and sorry if I upset you but I never twisted your words as you say ( if you read my comment you will see I used the same word as you 'similar' ).

In the end we can all agree on one thing:

Spoiler for Archer:

Archer is not Shirou from any of the Fate routes. For all that we know his life and his Holy Grail war could be totally different than any of the three routes.

Witch reminds me... I have forgotten... how did Shirou became Archer at all?

Spoiler for Archer past:

I know he formed a pact similar to a way Saber formed hers. But did he did it because:
-His ideals betrayed him in the end and he want to kill Shirou before his ideals betrayed him?
or:
-Did he abandoned his ideals only to regret it later and become heroic spirit to correct his mistake and also to kill himself before he betrays them?

[GDB]

Neither. He did it because he failed to save people and making the pact allowed him to save them. That's why he's stuck as a Counter Guardian while Saber isn't, since she never obtained the Grail.

[Dengar]

Archer never actually abandoned his ideals. His ideals abandoned him. And I do believe he actually only became so jaded after his ascension to legendary soul. Because he started to believe that any effort he makes is in vain. Each time he was summoned, the world was about to be destroyed. Apparently, Counter Guardians aren't really heroes who fight evil. They're more like the cleanup crew who makes sure the world doesn't fall apart after humans made a mess of things.

[Brother Coa]

I see, thanks for your answers.

About his jadedy - I still don't know how he do not see it coming? It is a fact that no matter how import you are or how strong your ideals are - in the grand scheme of things ( when compared to entire species for example ) you are just one individual and as such can only have limited influence ( unless you are that special one like Jesus, witch Shirou obliviously wasn't ). It get's even worse when time progress forward and everything spread - you became more and more insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Interesting theory, I like it