Medaka Box [Manga]

[Tenchi Hou Take]

Originally Posted by MD84

Well, not everybody. Just the characters that get any focus. Heck, even some that do get focus can't do that -- aside from her Canary Cry Kikaijima doesn't have any notable physical ability relative to the other Council members. Okay, she's a good swimmer, but that hasn't come up too often.

Any physically inclined character, as is the same with any shounen ever. Obviously you wouldn't be seeing a random grandma down the street doing it. If Kikaijima actually did any real physcial fighting she'd be doing it too.

[Last Carpet]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Zen's mother was Abnormal.

In what chapter was that confirmed?

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by Last Carpet

In what chapter was that confirmed?

I don't remember where exactly, but yeah she is an abnormal.

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take

Any physically inclined character, as is the same with any shounen ever. Obviously you wouldn't be seeing a random grandma down the street doing it. If Kikaijima actually did any real physcial fighting she'd be doing it too.

I get what you're saying. It's just that other series at least make token efforts to justify it -- some series use ki, others magic, and in some it's just mentioned that humans have much, much greater physical potential than they do in real life. Until we get a deeper explanation of the source of the various superpowers in Medaka Box, I'm just going to assume the third one is in play.

[Takigashima]

Kumagawa winning would be a pretty big shock to the school due to the fact he never wins.
This is just an opinion but him winning could further loosen the seal on Ajimu due to the win being something momentous and happy.
A plot that was put in motion by Ajimu to hasten her release (she did tell munakata to watch kumagawa)

Just a thought

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Takigashima

Kumagawa winning would be a pretty big shock to the school due to the fact he never wins.
This is just an opinion but him winning could further loosen the seal on Ajimu due to the win being something momentous and happy.
A plot that was put in motion by Ajimu to hasten her release (she did tell munakata to watch kumagawa)

Just a thought

Frankly Ajimu is already scary enough without her powers. She's done more damage to the Council than any of the previous antagonists through entirely pacifistic means. She even sowed the seeds of the Medaka/Zenkichi conflict by giving "Parasite Eyes" to Zenkichi when she was still a spirit sealed off from reality.

She's like Medaka's polar opposite. Medaka believes in humanity's ideals and happiness but can't really relate to people as individuals without defeating them first and letting her Abnormality work its magic. Ajimu doesn't care one bit for humanity or human values like happiness, sorrow, good, evil, hate, love etc. but understands individuals well enough to manipulate them.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Takigashima

This is just an opinion but him winning could further loosen the seal on Ajimu due to the win being something momentous and happy.
A plot that was put in motion by Ajimu to hasten her release (she did tell munakata to watch kumagawa)

Just a thought

That's a good thought, and it probably already came true, since Kumagawa did something as cool as sacrificing himself for the sake of a girl.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Takigashima

Kumagawa winning would be a pretty big shock to the school due to the fact he never wins.
This is just an opinion but him winning could further loosen the seal on Ajimu due to the win being something momentous and happy.
A plot that was put in motion by Ajimu to hasten her release (she did tell munakata to watch kumagawa)

Just a thought

He never wins in how we would normally consider a win, but if you think about things from his perspective, he's won by losing quite a few times. Hurts the brain to think about it, but once you've kinda grasped it you realize why he's one of the strongest and most dangerous characters in the manga, and why he was able to be such a threat to Medaka. In fact you could argue he set all of that up just to be near Medaka because he knew Ajimu would be returning.

There's a whole piece of missing information that the writer is blatantly (and obviously intentionally) ignoring:

1. Kumagawa supposedly did something terrible to Ajimu.

2. No one really has any memory of this for some reason, except a select few.

3. She was supposedly Zenkichi's girlfriend, and yet we've seen that his devotion to Medaka goes all the way back to childhood.

4. Zenkichi's mother knows something about the incident.

5. There were "two" Ajimu's in the alternate reality - the one Kumagawa meets and the one Zenkichi meets.

6. It's never explained how she "escaped" from that reality other than a simple "seal is starting to break" line.

7. Ajimu admits to being behind the flask plan. When? Wasn't that the headmasters project? Completely unexplained.

--

Lots of mysteries left to unravel, imo.

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Solace

He never wins in how we would normally consider a win, but if you think about things from his perspective, he's won by losing quite a few times. Hurts the brain to think about it, but once you've kinda grasped it you realize why he's one of the strongest and most dangerous characters in the manga, and why he was able to be such a threat to Medaka. In fact you could argue he set all of that up just to be near Medaka because he knew Ajimu would be returning.

He only seems to be able to "win" if he doesn't really care about the outcome. When he really wants to win, he loses even if he should be able to win through ability alone. The worst part is that the issue is entirely in his head -- one of his opponents bluntly stated that deep down, Kumagawa can't ever imagine winning, so he can't win.

He's still dangerous since he can still devalue his opponents' victory, or make them lose as well.

[Clarste]

Well, that's the ideal behind Bookmaker, isn't it? "I can't win, so we'll both lose instead." That's what it means to be a Minus.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by MD84

She's like Medaka's polar opposite. Medaka believes in humanity's ideals and happiness but can't really relate to people as individuals without defeating them first and letting her Abnormality work its magic. Ajimu doesn't care one bit for humanity or human values like happiness, sorrow, good, evil, hate, love etc. but understands individuals well enough to manipulate them.

Yet, I think that they're both actually after the same objective though, think about it. Ajimu is a non-equal, she matches no one and refers to herself as an imperial being. Despite this, why would she come up the flask plan to raise humans into perfect beings when she doesn't care about humans in the first place? My thoughts about Ajimu is that she's simular to Medaka. Being rich with abilities, popular with all the students (from Kumagawa's flashback about her), but deep down lonely with as result that she tries to create people with a simular "powerlevel" who can accompany/ or share her ideas, in short "friends". Even though she has the advantage of understanding people's feelings, the part where she doesn't put any value into it is probably why she's so uncapable like Medaka who likewise, lacks the "understanding of people's feelings" but yet shows that she values them.

[Sol Falling]

Haven't seen you in this thread before, Solace. I've been rereading the manga a bit just recently myself, so with hindsight helping things along here are some answers to your questions.

Originally Posted by Solace

He never wins in how we would normally consider a win, but if you think about things from his perspective, he's won by losing quite a few times. Hurts the brain to think about it, but once you've kinda grasped it you realize why he's one of the strongest and most dangerous characters in the manga, and why he was able to be such a threat to Medaka. In fact you could argue he set all of that up just to be near Medaka because he knew Ajimu would be returning.

There's a whole piece of missing information that the writer is blatantly (and obviously intentionally) ignoring:

1. Kumagawa supposedly did something terrible to Ajimu.

Kumagawa ripped Ajimu's face off, at which point he supposedly still loved her. He also obtained All Fiction, came to dislike her, and sealed her away not long afterwards.

2. No one really has any memory of this for some reason, except a select few.

Zenkichi and Medaka seem to be the only ones who've been picked out as having forgotten specifically. It likely is the effect of one of Ajimu's abnormalities.

3. She was supposedly Zenkichi's girlfriend, and yet we've seen that his devotion to Medaka goes all the way back to childhood.

This was an unconfirmed translation issue. The word used in the raw was "kanojo", which they weren't sure whether referred to Zenkichi's girlfriend, Kumagawa's girlfriend, or simply "her" (i.e. noone's girlfriend). This late into the story, I think the last interpretation is the most obvious default.

5. There were "two" Ajimu's in the alternate reality - the one Kumagawa meets and the one Zenkichi meets.

The personalities were not any different, it was simply the location ("Zenkichi's heart/dream" vs. "Kumagawa's heart/dream"). This was the result of Ajimu's "Alibi block" ability that let her be anywhere.

6. It's never explained how she "escaped" from that reality other than a simple "seal is starting to break" line.

I think the story will have to get to why and how Kumagawa sealed Anshin'in before we can come to a solid conclusion on this issue. At the moment, my speculation is pointing towards what Kumagawa said about using a "mix" of Bookmaker and All Fiction in sealing her, and that Anshin'in in people's dreams had black hair (i.e. non-Bookmakered hair) and had full control of her abilities. Since Kumagawa always apparently only had one abnormality at a time, I imagine that All Fiction was the seal keeping Ajimu in her dream world, which he had to release her from (and subsequently put a Bookmaker seal back on again) when he traded them.

7. Ajimu admits to being behind the flask plan. When? Wasn't that the headmasters project? Completely unexplained.

The headmaster is merely managing the project as the current headmaster. Ajimu is a 200+ year old being who was in fact the founder of Hakoniwa Academy.

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Yet, I think that they're both actually after the same objective though, think about it. Ajimu is a non-equal, she matches no one and refers to herself as an imperial being. Despite this, why would she come up the flask plan to raise humans into perfect beings when she doesn't care about humans in the first place? My thoughts about Ajimu is that she's simular to Medaka. Being rich with abilities, popular with all the students (from Kumagawa's flashback about her), but deep down lonely with as result that she tries to create people with a simular "powerlevel" who can accompany/ or share her ideas, in short "friends". Even though she has the advantage of understanding people's feelings, the part where she doesn't put any value into it is probably why she's so uncapable like Medaka who likewise, lacks the "understanding of people's feelings" but yet shows that she values them.

And Zenkichi is stuck in the unenviable position of being stuck between them.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by MD84

And Zenkichi is stuck in the unenviable position of being stuck between them.

Yeah, but if you think about it .. Lummie theory would also explain why Najimi choice Zen for the flank plan.

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by Solace

3. She was supposedly Zenkichi's girlfriend, and yet we've seen that his devotion to Medaka goes all the way back to childhood

A bit of a judgement call on my part, that might just be a translation error... or not, so let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

[Lummie]

Originally Posted by Soji

Yeah, but if you think about it .. Lummie theory would also explain why Najimi choice Zen for the flank plan.

Zen is at this point nothing but a tool for Ajimu, and the 5 on Zen's side are just accessories that come along with using him. She already mentioned that she gathered enough data about Medaka, now if she can create a being who can defeat said person, it'll fulfill the point of the flask plan and Zen won't be necessary to her plans anymore since she can recreate millions like him anyway.

[MD84]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Zen is at this point nothing but a tool for Ajimu, and the 5 on Zen's side are just accessories that come along with using him. She already mentioned that she gathered enough data about Medaka, now if she can create a being who can defeat said person, it'll fulfill the point of the flask plan and Zen won't be necessary to her plans anymore since she can recreate millions like him anyway.

The sad thing is, that alone makes Zenkichi closer to Ajimu than any other human right now. Thankfully, Zenkichi has no illusions about what Ajimu wants from him. Which is even sadder because it means he has a deeper and more honest relationship with Ajimu than he did with Medaka.

[Soji]

Originally Posted by Lummie

Zen is at this point nothing but a tool for Ajimu, and the 5 on Zen's side are just accessories that come along with using him. She already mentioned that she gathered enough data about Medaka, now if she can create a being who can defeat said person, it'll fulfill the point of the flask plan and Zen won't be necessary to her plans anymore since she can recreate millions like him anyway.

I know that.
What I thought was more in line with what you said before.
After all, we know that Zen can bind better with people .... is enough to see the 5 that are with him.

Originally Posted by MD84

The sad thing is, that alone makes Zenkichi closer to Ajimu than any other human right now. Thankfully, Zenkichi has no illusions about what Ajimu wants from him. Which is even sadder because it means he has a deeper and more honest relationship with Ajimu than he did with Medaka.

What's really sad is it not only concerns with medaka but with all the student council, want I mean is even if ironic and sad this thing, the relationship that Zen have with Najimi is better than the one he had with Medaka (as you said), Akune, Misogi and Kikaijima.(and he thought of them as friends.)
I honestly do not know whether to laugh or feel sorry for him for this situation.

[[HearT]]

Originally Posted by Kurosu

A bit of a judgement call on my part, that might just be a translation error... or not, so let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

nah, not necessarily a translation error, the word '彼女' or 'kanojo' was used, that can be translated to either 'she' or 'girlfriend', so it's still up in the air which one it really is until we get more background information のヮの

[Odd]

Not once have I seen Zenkichi refer to anyone on the Student Council as his friend, I mean he barely interacts with them unless he's forced to. The only people who are his friends (he acknowleged them as) are probably only Munakata, Emukae, Tsurubami and Shiranui (Hansode).