Infinite Stratos Character Creation and Fanfiction Discussion

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by SRW-Otaku

How much damage would a Neutron Beam deal ?

- How long is a piece of string?

Lasers and some Particle accelerators can do huge amounts of damage or just give you a nice tan. The question here is how much power is going into the weapon, how efficient the weapon is (ie beam diffusion over range, focus point, atmospheric conditions), the nature of the material (Tungsten is dense and a neutron reflector, so a Neutron Beam will probably have a tough time affecting it), how thick the material is, how long the beam weapon is trained on a particular spot, etc. This goes back to why particle beam weapons are good against electronices but not really effective as a conventional weapon--the time it takes to actually cause damage with a laser or particle beam is not instantaneous, or else requires a HUGE amount of power to be able to do something.

...and don't tell me it's powered by a G-Stone and the hot-bloodedness of the hero or I'll just thwack you.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- How long is a piece of string?

Lasers and some Particle accelerators can do huge amounts of damage or just give you a nice tan. The question here is how much power is going into the weapon, how efficient the weapon is (ie beam diffusion over range, focus point, atmospheric conditions), the nature of the material (Tungsten is dense and a neutron reflector, so a Neutron Beam will probably have a tough time affecting it), how thick the material is, how long the beam weapon is trained on a particular spot, etc. This goes back to why particle beam weapons are good against electronices but not really effective as a conventional weapon--the time it takes to actually cause damage with a laser or particle beam is not instantaneous, or else requires a HUGE amount of power to be able to do something.

...and don't tell me it's powered by a G-Stone and the hot-bloodedness of the hero or I'll just thwack you.

Noooo...THAT is for rocket punches. THIS one is for a certain real robot from SRW 4. Power source is a Ultracompact Fusion Reactor with enough power to push a 70 tons piece of machinery (with weight distribution in roughly humanoid form) around Mach 1. Beam diffusion is around 80-90 kilometers, focus point with a diameter around or above 16 inch (or 40.6 cm for non-americans) and used in aerial and space combat, with slight decrease in efficiency in underwater environment. Duration is around 7 or 5 seconds. Yes, I'm speaking science.
Also, if tungsten too thick, try something more conventional like ceramic armor or steel armor in scaled formation.

[wavehawk]

I'm not a Physics or Chem major, anyone with access to a library can do research on this.

You mean, running speed is mach 1? So it runs as fast as an EVA?

That aside, I'm not interested in the mech, I'm interested in the weapon itself.80-9 kilometers means that you've got a firehose effect--you're spraying the entire battlefield with particles that may do damage to unprotected infantry but not much of anything against armor of any sort. Exactly this happened in one of the Gundam manga--the (very very obsolete in UC0153) ZZ Gundam tries to use it's High Mega Particle cannon against a horde of enemies and basically becomes a giant flashlight.

Unless you mean range before diffusing completely. Or range before the focus point grows to larger than the 40.6cm. Particle weapons behave differently in atmosphere, in vacuum, and underwater. Remember, these are not laser beams (which also behave differently underwater) but particle throwers. A charged particle weapon will not work well in space, while it may just electrocute everyone underwater. A Neutron Particle thrower on the other hand works well in space (a prototype can be seen at the Smithsonian Air and Space museum) and I imagine would work well in atmosphere, but be severely hindered underwater.

It's not that Tungsten is thick. It's that Tungsten is one of the types of materials used in radiation shielding. A sufficient amoutn of neurton particles will still do damage, but not as much as it would do against other materiel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_reflector

[ZeroXSEED]

That must be exceptionally powerful cannon, dirty too, every nation would be go their way to fucking kill you, rape your family, and torture your grandma.

See, when neutron hit anything, even air, it will irradiate them, turning them into dangerous isotope. By the way, air have half-value of 1.5 km, that means the radiation reduced to half every 1.5 km. Every path the cannon pierced now release radioactive air literally everywhere.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

That must be exceptionally powerful cannon, dirty too, every nation would be go their way to fucking kill you, rape your family, and torture your grandma.

See, when neutron hit anything, even air, it will irradiate them, turning them into dangerous isotope. By the way, air have half-value of 1.5 km, that means the radiation reduced to half every 1.5 km. Every path the cannon pierced now release radioactive air literally everywhere.

Yaeh, and Gilliam destroyed countless universe WITH ONLY ONE MECH. Granted, it's one hell of an Eldritch Abomination dimension-jumping mech, but still...
And to wavy:
No, it doesn't run at Mach 1. It FLIES (or hovers) at Mach 1, because this is a GESPENT MUTHAFOOKA, DO U USE IT?!
And yes, I DO mean the range until the beam grows larger. I have to thanks SRW OG Inspector for that little information.

[The 48th Ronin]

You know guys, sometimes I wonder. What's the point of melee weapons for IS? Aside from the cliched cool factor?

[ZeroXSEED]

Neutron beam, positron whatever. SRW treat it not anymore better or worse than generic beam stuff. Don't make one thing special without treating everything else with the same view, that's my suggestion.

If you're concerned with the physic, don't go half-hearted about it.

Originally Posted by Captain Orange

You know guys, sometimes I wonder. What's the point of melee weapons for IS? Aside from the cliched cool factor?

Cool? No, I.S. can dodge bullet. When something can consistently dodge bullet, melee suddenly becomes viable again.

Because you really want to hit harder than your enemy, simply as that.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

Cool? No, I.S. can dodge bullet. When something can consistently dodge bullet, melee suddenly becomes viable again.

Because you really want to hit harder than your enemy, simply as that.

Or when you're THE SWORD THAT CLEAVES EVIL that can cleave ships in half with ease. ZANKANTOU! IKKI TOUSEN!

[MeisterBabylon]

Swords can do more damage to an IS because that shield can take quite a bit of punishment from bullets, where as a sword hit is often depicted at being more effective.

And then there is the problem of an IS being able to dodge dumbfire projectiles and cut down missiles. Since IS cored missiles are an impossibility, the only solution is to use the IS itself as a missile, while necessitates swords and close combat.

Perhaps I'm quoted Gundam 00, but given how canon depicts swords, it appears that in the end the sword is most effective against other IS because of the way it interacts with the shields. While being utterly useless when you walk into an army which can suppress you all day long.

This is assuming that we have an AVERAGE pilot at the helm, not some Schwarzehase superhuman, and a typical Rafale, not the IS-001. IE, the other 255 IS units in the world today.

But once someone works out how to increase shield damage, the favor will shift back towards guns. I'm currently fooling around with the following for 3 most common rounds for IS primary weapons:

-- hyperkinetic penetrators not unlike modern tank rounds
-- gyrojet munitions (basically, automatic grenade launchers)
-- good ol particle beams (a 3rd generation luxury).

While they remain somewhat useful against other IS, they perform way better when shooting at something else.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Swords can do more damage to an IS because that shield can take quite a bit of punishment from bullets, where as a sword hit is often depicted at being more effective.

And then there is the problem of an IS being able to dodge dumbfire projectiles and cut down missiles. Since IS cored missiles are an impossibility, the only solution is to use the IS itself as a missile, while necessitates swords and close combat.

Perhaps I'm quoted Gundam 00, but given how canon depicts swords, it appears that in the end the sword is most effective against other IS because of the way it interacts with the shields. While being utterly useless when you walk into an army which can suppress you all day long.

This is assuming that we have an AVERAGE pilot at the helm, not some Schwarzehase superhuman, and a typical Rafale, not the IS-001. IE, the other 255 IS units in the world today.

But once someone works out how to increase shield damage, the favor will shift back towards guns. I'm currently fooling around with the following for 3 most common rounds for IS primary weapons:

-- hyperkinetic penetrators not unlike modern tank rounds
-- gyrojet munitions (basically, automatic grenade launchers)
-- good ol particle beams (a 3rd generation luxury).

While they remain somewhat useful against other IS, they perform way better when shooting at something else.

Yeah, but swords have one major drawback: It require skillz (that's why only Rishu Togo and Sanger Zonvolt can use the rocket-powered Type 0 Zankantou and the Grungust Type 0 AT ALL). If you're a mook (like most non-gundam pilot Gundam character in SEED and Zeta), then you're toast. Without butter.
Hyperkinetic penetrators that is similar to tank rounds... Sooooo, battleship cannons? OH! KANCOLLE XOVER!!!!!
Gatling grenade launcher. Try installing it onto a hammer. For Oum's sake
Particle Beams, eh? As long as you don't use "Photon Rifle" (literally "Flashlight with a gun shape"), then theoretically, we should be fine. But please be careful with Neutron Beams, otherwise you might end up like Gilliam after "Hero Senki".

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by SRW-Otaku

No, it doesn't run at Mach 1. It FLIES (or hovers) at Mach 1, because this is a GESPENT MUTHAFOOKA, DO U USE IT?!

- If it flies, then the main powewrplant (the Fusion Reactor) has no influence except weight. The flying speed is determined by the flight engines. Unlike an aircraft, which uses the jet engines for both propulsion and to generate power to the aircraft's systems, a mech's main powerplant is concerned with powering the mech's main body and systems. Flight would have to be achieved either by adding jet engines separately to the machine--or you could go the Gundam 00 route and have it be a very exotic powerplant that powers the mech and gives it flight. A Fusion Reactor will not give you flight.

Originally Posted by Captain Orange

You know guys, sometimes I wonder. What's the point of melee weapons for IS? Aside from the cliched cool factor?

- Well to start off with, Japan is more a sword culture than a gun culture. That aside, most IS battles are now duels one on one, not against massed opponents. So there's more of an advantage to an IS having an individual weapon as opposed to an area of effect weapon in some cases. Second, most IS have a melee weapon but also have ranged weapon (Akatsubaki), so it's more a case of weapon balance than anything. Most Is will have melee capability as well as ranged capability but usually specialize--Cecilia's Blue Tears may have a close-combat knife for melee but it's pretty much useless to her since she's specialized for ranged combat.

Byakushiki starts off with zero ranged capability but later gains it in the form of Reiraku Byakuya. It still is more of a melee IS than a ranged combat unit, though.

Charl's Rafale Revive is probably the most balanced IS we've seen so far in terms of melee and firearms, and she can shift between both. Still more of a ranged combatant, but at least she has options.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Perhaps I'm quoted Gundam 00, but given how canon depicts swords, it appears that in the end the sword is most effective against other IS because of the way it interacts with the shields

- You're definitely quoting Gundam 00, but the argument still stands. Most ranged attacks chip away at the PIC shielding slowly, but a good sword attack can take down those shields as much as 3 or as little as 1 hit. If I remember right, Yukihira is one of those one-hit-kill sword attacks.

And yes, skill is a deciding factor in using swords. But skill varies even between 'normal' or 'average' IS pilots in 'Grunt' IS like Uchigane or Rafale. Obviously someone trained in the use of an Uchigane will have better melee skills (due to Uchigane default using a sword, and we see students training in swordsmanship with the Uchigane in some shots in the anime). But conversely, someone trained in the use of a Rafale will have better ranged weapons skills.

Unsurprisingly, most IS in world military use are Rafales. Uchiganes are used in IS Academy for trainees for many reasons (like trainign for duels), but one (that I don't think Izuru thought about but makes sense) is because the stock Uchigane only has a sword. So if a student gets irresponsible and tries to take an Uchigane and cause trouble, the instructors (armed with Rafales) will be able to take them down. Representative Cadets have access to more powerful personalized IS, but are usually held to a higher responsibility than the rest of the rank and file.

...usually. (glares at Rinny and Cecilia)

[ZeroXSEED]

I don't think world military employ stock Uchigane, just because it has abysmal performance doesn't mean they have not much use.

I mean, everyone and their grandma use F-16 instead of higher end jet fighter for a reason, and they can always be upgraded by new tech (Arab's F-16 Block 60 is bullshit). Rafael just had it easier due to modularity.

It's understandable for Uchigane to be most popular in the world because it's always stated to be very stable and easy to use.

On the other hand, we know that anime has USA using Rafael due to it's high performance.

And we still don't know what is #2 I.S. in the world.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

And we still don't know what is #2 I.S. in the world.

Probably a Gespent-type armor like in Hero Senki ( back when the OG Kamen Rider fought along side Amuro in Gundam Armor and Ultraman, with Gilliam in a Gespent suit the size of a human), considering we already got Trombe Laura and Cybuster Shirokishi in it.

[SRW-Otaku]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- If it flies, then the main powewrplant (the Fusion Reactor) has no influence except weight. The flying speed is determined by the flight engines. Unlike an aircraft, which uses the jet engines for both propulsion and to generate power to the aircraft's systems, a mech's main powerplant is concerned with powering the mech's main body and systems. Flight would have to be achieved either by adding jet engines separately to the machine--or you could go the Gundam 00 route and have it be a very exotic powerplant that powers the mech and gives it flight. A Fusion Reactor will not give you flight.

-[/i]

Yeah, I kinda forgot that the Gespent are lined with thrusters all over, and Gilliam's original Gespent (The black one) have flight capabilities due to the fact that it have gigantic Tesla Drive flight engine strapped to it back, while the MP Gespies can barely hover, let alone fly.
But still, there are some limits to the Tesla Drives. Give it a 100 ton extremely unbalanced mech and it'll help the damn thing stand and hovers...but no flying. Unless you plug another one in.

[wavehawk]

@SRW I think you should step back a moment before you go too far into this.

Remember this is the fanfiction thread. We're trying basically to get an idea how to explain abilities and concepts without dumping pointless technobabble or (worse) simply assuming that the people reading the fics already have all the necessary knowledge to just run with what you're writing.

Essentially, if you just went and told me we were talking about a Gepenst (I don't play Super Robot Wars but I know what a Gepenst is), you would have saved me all the time trying to figure out how it could move at Mach 1, because I would have already known that it uses thruster and not its powerplant to fly. But if you were talking to someone who had utterly no idea, yeah this problem comes to fore. But that's not too much of a problem because this thread is exactly for discussing such things. The concern is when your finished product (your fic) assumes to much from your reader that you completely lose them, or bombards them with such information that they can't take it all in, then you've lost your readership. This is a problem I definitely have with my fic-writing: trying to make it accessible to people who have zero knowledge of the series, yet not making them feel like morons when they read my stories.

Let's step away from Super Robots and use Superheroes for an example. Superhero movies to be specific. Yes, superhero movies are made with the idea of pleasing the fans, but it should also be accesible enough that anyone who is not even remotely familiar with these characters can just jump in and enjoy themselves. When I read fics or books that assume I shoudl aready know about these characters it annoys me. But it also annoys me when they have to re-explain things in a boring manner just to bring me up to speed. What you have to do with your writing is to pull off that median line wherein new people can get the gist of the characters and established situations without technobabble or overexplaining, but without pissing off established fans who already know the ins and outs of the universe you're writing about.

NerdSync actually did a good video on how very little people who are not comics fans know about comic characters:
https://youtu.be/bhuvac0HWJY

[The 48th Ronin]

A hilarious idea. What if the countries decided to support their representatives in claiming Ichika's heart?

[demino_hellsin]

World war.

Now what if we got them all drunk and story starts ala Hangover with all of them in varying states of dress and all the girls pregnant with Ichika's child?

[SRW-Otaku]

@wavehawk Thanks for that. I'm still trying to find the line in the middle, but still no luck. And the fact that you know what a Gespents is w/o playing SRW means that you played Hero Senki. Damn bro, you ancient!
I asked for a way to introduce the Gespie into ISVerse because I though that since HS!Gilliam wield a human-sized Gespent as a suit of armor, what happen if one of the universes that he jumps in to is the ISverse.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

World war.

- And that's not even taking into account the people (like Phantom Task) who are more interested in gettign rid of Ichika to ensure that this specifically does not happen. Oh wait, somebody already did that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y:_The_Last_Man

Originally Posted by SRW-Otaku

@wavehawk Thanks for that. I'm still trying to find the line in the middle, but still no luck. And the fact that you know what a Gespents is w/o playing SRW means that you played Hero Senki. Damn bro, you ancient!
I asked for a way to introduce the Gespie into ISVerse because I though that since HS!Gilliam wield a human-sized Gespent as a suit of armor, what happen if one of the universes that he jumps in to is the ISverse.

- No, I haven't played Hero Senki. But I am hell older than you think. It's just that when you work in certain circles, you're surrounded by people who move across different circles as well. And when they try WAY TOO HARD to sell you on their hobby you end up not wanting it but still retaining a lot of info in your head that you don't need.

A power suit sized Gepenst...may work against IS, but you'll have to think through how it stacks up. On the one hand it has more obvious physical armor than an IS but on the other hand how much better or worse is it than the PIC system?

Not to mention how the world will react. The whole point of the IS being of such primary importance in the universe of IS is that it is the first truly usable exoskeleton mecha in that universe, and it already outstrips any other exosekleton/exoframe project in existence. Phantom Task will want it detroyed at any cost, and other coutnries will either try to bribe, steal, or destroy it in order to gain an advantage. I mena think about it: a powered suit that can do some (not all) of the things an IS can do and it isn't tied to your gender or accessible to Tabane's hacking...

[SRW-Otaku]

Yeah, the fact that during it's debut in HS, the original Gespie has gone up against the cyborg of Kamen Rider, aliens of Ultraman and human-sized Zeon stuff makes it quite the formidable foe. But still, the Gespie is nowhere near the capability of an IS, and is STILL capable of being destroy by tanks and such.
IS, on the other hand, is much closer to something like a Brain from Brain Powerd (no typo) or the mechas from Aura Battler Dunbine, heck even Jaegers- a hybrid robot, with the size and mass producy-ness of a real, but with the power and capabilities of a super robot.
The IS is also important for the fact that modern weaponry do jack-diddly-shit to one. But Gespies, on the other hand, lacks a barrier of any kind and would be heavily damage from a tank round and would be toast from a decently-aimed missile. The Gespent relies on dodging and sometimes taking a critical hit, while the IS relies on being OP as fuck.
But PTs, in my opinion, would be capable of being mass produce, something that the IS are incapable of. Judging by the fact that the Shadow Mirrors have over 3000 Gespie ALONE, it's pretty damn clear that these thing are cheaper than your regular Super Robots.