Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Anita]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I dunno... To be honest, yes 1 is better, but...

...looks around nervously...

...the mental image of Alaemia stepping out of the moonwell in traditional robe...

I saw Hayate and shrugged, but when the greatest blessing of Elune stepped out, I dropped my [Black Ice] in amazement, and didn't even notice Umbreon tugging on my [Aged Winter Cloak] to retrieve it.

Oh did I mention how Towpok and Alaemia met? The failed-Knight-of-the-Silver-Hand-turned-hunter was looking to tame a bear...

*MANGLE'd*

Thanks for the wellwishes. If only you guys could come to my party. ^_^

Now to settle things...

*shifts back into Catform, drags stunned hunter away by the collar and restealths*

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Underground connections as a double agent... FAR more experience than I expected (and very slippery tightrope there... suddenly having Sam Fisher flashbacks), but all well for the mission profile I initially had planned (note that this is a draft):

Essentially, said rogue scientist (yet unnamed) is trying to get rid of his... competitors in the field so to speak, hence he's trying to eliminate every known advanced cyborg in the field. Eventually, with the TSAB closing in on his trail he decides to test out Venti's anti-magic abilities on them too by eliminating intelligence operatives. Enter Mai, who just happens to be available to partake in this mission to determine the motive behind the attacks, and capture said mastermind...

Since it's her first mission, and using stealth no less, Mai's gonna need ALOT of pointers from Eden to survive this one...

Eden is a very dark character compared to the Nanoha cast. It's a leftover from her old profile as a NOD agent. Unlike many of the Nanoha cast, she has zero problems shooting to kill. In fact, she does so in her introduction chapter.

And it should be a perfect chance for Eden to get involved. If that scientist is trying to get rid of his 'competitors' then there would be lots of people who'd want him dead. Criminals pasting bounties on criminals, especially high ones, draw attention.

Originally Posted by JamesEdwards

Ah, I forgot about that, since we haven't seen him in ages or the rest of the One Piece cast with the recent Go Rescue! Ace arc. Not to mention, I tend to only remember Usopp's INSANE Hit Points, High Evasion, and his ridiculous comeback kid perk. The guy spends most of his time running away or taking nasty hits, and then suddenly, he figures out a plan to kick arse. Freakin' nuts.

The only time that didn't happen was against Perona, and THAT was a hilarious fight.

"I'M ALREADY NEGATIVE!!"

"!!!?"

That one was brilliant. I liked the fight against the mole-men way back when too "Ussop pound! Pound! Pound! Pound! Pound! Pound! Pound! Wagooooomu!"

.... Ah, who am I kidding? Every fight with Ussop is a hilarious one. XD

Originally Posted by Anita

Thanks for the wellwishes. If only you guys could come to my party. ^_^

Now to settle things...

*shifts back into Catform, drags stunned hunter away by the collar and restealths*

So do we. Have fun playing with your hunter.

[stormturmoil]

Keroko: problem, if Eden is such a dark character, and more importantly, so good at counterintelligence/espionage/related shenanigans...

then Either Due would have killed her (threat to the mission), or she would have killed Due (same reason...).

I can't come up with any explanation for this not happening that doesn't make both of them look like complete and utter dolts.

[Keroko]

Simple answer, Eden was nowhere near Due. Eden was looking for external threats, not internal ones. She was out in the field probing the people who benefited from Jail's presents for locations on Jail, and searching for possible sources of Relic trade to snatch them before Jail could. Likewise, Due was nowhere near Eden, and had no reason to even know of her existence. There must have been dozens of investigators committing research on Jail and Relics, why would she so clearly note Eden out of all others? For that matter, why would Eden be a bigger threat than... say... Verossa?

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Simple answer, Eden was nowhere near Due. Eden was looking for external threats, not internal ones. She was out in the field probing the people who benefited from Jail's presents for locations on Jail, and searching for possible sources of Relic trade to snatch them before Jail could. Likewise, Due was nowhere near Eden, and had no reason to even know of her existence. There must have been dozens of investigators committing research on Jail and Relics, why would she so clearly note Eden out of all others? For that matter, why would Eden be a bigger threat than... say... Verossa?

Well, I believe, we can ultimately chock this up to the infantile, amateur writing of 7Arcs. If they had a Tom Clancy-level fella on the team, Verossa would have come to blows with some "seedy" element sooner or later. If Due is also the Counter-HumanInt portion of Jail's operation, she should have zero'd in on Verossa ASAP and got rid of him. In which case, Eden would have some unexpected company too, at some point.

It's okay to leave alone the small fry who aren't getting anywhere, since leaving a trail of bodies to follow is an insane faux pas unless you have some equally insane plan. It's the big fish you want to fry.

But guess what folks, hardcore military tactical espionage action isn't a hallmark of the canon Nano-verse.

On the other hand, as a writer with high standards, I believe, stormturmoil has a damn valid point. Intelligence is an ugly business. Finding secrets and keeping secrets is all part of the same coin.

[stormturmoil]

mostly a matter of perception.

Verossa, for all his posturing, is definitely 'good cop' material, and is more in line with the Saint church than the STAB proper, to boot.

As a result, he's unlikely to be in on any of the dirty secrets of the Bureau.

Eden...she has the kind of background that strongly suggests (even if untruly) that she would have made it a point to know all the dirty secrets of the STAB whether she was supposed to know them or not!

as a result, she gives off the aura of a person who may know too much!

[Keroko]

Another option would be that Due had a cover to maintain, and therefore couldn't afford to simply off every other investigator that went after Jail. The brains don't just allow anyone to provide maintenance, so she would have to have been a regular there, gaining their trust to the point where they didn't even stop talking about top-classified stuff while she was there.

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Another option would be that Due had a cover to maintain, and therefore couldn't afford to simply off every other investigator that went after Jail. The brains don't just allow anyone to provide maintenance, so she would have to have been a regular there, gaining their trust to the point where they didn't even stop talking about top-classified stuff while she was there.

Uhh, she doesn't have to go kill Eden, personally, you know. Assassins. Various methods of indirect assassination. Contract hitmen / women. And if all else fails, call in Cinque and Sein plus a horde of the stealth camou gadget drones. In fact, since she has access to all that info, she should frankly be able to assign hit squads with extreme impunity and get away with it absolutely scot free.

[stormturmoil]

That's true, to a point. The important issue would tend to be degree of threat to her own mission, rather than to Jail.

as a result, if Due suspects Eden suspects something concerning her mission, a confrontation becomes likely.

everything really hinges on just how much Eden knows.

Does she know or suspect about the Brains (I'm damn sure she suspects a 'power behind the throne' type deal, but does she know anything about the nature of it?)

does she know anything about Regius and his backbiting (which tangentially also involves Due?)

does she know or suspect a link between Jail and the STAB?

if the answer to any of the above is yes, then there's a potential threat to Dues cover that needs to be assessed and possibly dealt with.

This is why I mentioned the part about making them look like dolts; they ARE going to be highly suspicious, that's given.

[JamesEdwards]

Actually, slightly off-topic, how the hell would a guy like Verossa avoid getting off'd? He's just too memorable and flashy, not to mention he's a third party / outsider in the biz, like seriously!

[stormturmoil]

That may be his protection: he'll instantly be missed, leading to massive retaliation.

also, Infinite hunting hounds: Verossa is instantly aware of anything his potentially invisible, unlimited in number scout force is.

Hard to sneak up on.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

I actually need the clean copies so I can examine them. (I know they're around...)

Mainly it goes like this.

Power is determined by the number of Focal Points. Plain and simple. The more focals you have, the more power you have.

Efficiency is determined by the Semmetry of the item. 100 percent efficiency is where all focal points have direct paths to all other focal points in the shape. Direct paths are considered any straight line, whether it passes through a focal mid way or not. Efficiency is lost to bleed any time a flow has to make a turn to reach a focal point, AKA, make a 'hop'.

Mathematic complexity is determined by the number of connections each focal point has.


Thus, the basic triangle is considered perfect efficiency. All points can directly flow to all other points. But it lacks power because it only has three focal points.
The core belken triangle without all the frills is still 100% Efficiency. You have three points which are focals, and a center one. They interconnect and all of them have three connections. There is only a slight increase in power because of the extra focal point, and a minor increase in mathematical complexity.


Now, the difference for the mathematical value skyrocketing in the shapes is because you not only have to think about the direct linear connections to the far side of the circle, but you have to account for the formulae that have to be used for all points between.

The Belken full triangle, while less efficient than a Mid Childan Circle, is less mathematicly complicated because you don't have straight lines passing through everything resulting in compounded equations. Thus, we have a decent enough reason why Belkan mages, with older generation equipment, can handle them.

I think I have clean pictures of the summoning version somewhere
Let's see if I can find them

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

mostly a matter of perception.

Verossa, for all his posturing, is definitely 'good cop' material, and is more in line with the Saint church than the STAB proper, to boot.

As a result, he's unlikely to be in on any of the dirty secrets of the Bureau.

Eden...she has the kind of background that strongly suggests (even if untruly) that she would have made it a point to know all the dirty secrets of the STAB whether she was supposed to know them or not!

as a result, she gives off the aura of a person who may know too much!

To which I then ask three things: One, why would Due even know this? As I said, Eden doesn't shout her connections from the tallest tower. She keeps a lot of them a secret from pretty much everyone, so unless Due is well versed and in constant contact with the underworld, which is doubtful, she had no way of knowing just how deep Eden's connections go.

Two: Assuming she does know by some way, how will she act? As I said above, she is undercover herself. She can't just pop out and start killing investigators, especially when they haven't even begun to start finding out the truth. That would not only compromise her own position, but also create holes in the Brains cover as a whole. Not to mention that Eden is out in the field, not in the main base. How will she go out and find an undercover operative who doesn't want to be found in the field?

Three: Why would she act? Eden had not even come close to discovering the truth for the longer duration of StrikerS (it wasn't until the final weeks that Eden started to gather some clues as to where Jail may have been hiding). Why act on a threat that has found nothing? Why create holes in a cover where there are none? Like it or not, killing an investigator will leave trails, trails which risk leading back to her. If Eden hasn't found a trail of her own yet, why would she create one for the rest of them?

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

Does she know or suspect about the Brains (I'm damn sure she suspects a 'power behind the throne' type deal, but does she know anything about the nature of it?)

As far as I am aware, nobody but the 3 Admirals, Regius and their own maintenance crew knew about the brains. And even then the 3 Admirals weren't in on the whole Jail plan either.

You have to remember that Eden searches and eliminates external threats. She doesn't perform investigations on her own allies. She spends most of her time in the field, away from the TSAB headquarters.

So I'll answer the question with a question, why would she even suspect a power behind the throne to begin with?

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

does she know anything about Regius and his backbiting (which tangentially also involves Due?)

Yes, but she doesn't see a relation between that and an unknown organization funding Jail. It's just politics Regius preaches, and as all people craving political power do, Regius backbites.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

does she know or suspect a link between Jail and the STAB?

She knows someone must be financing him, and she knows that people who had seen to much tended to disappear or die. However, Jail had many sponsors and connections in the criminal world as well (Toredia, for example), so she was hunting those links rather than suspect her own organization to be the source. Which, let's face it, is a natural reaction. An unknown group of criminals? Or a group you trust and work for?

Eden is dark, not paranoid.

Originally Posted by JamesEdwards

Actually, slightly off-topic, how the hell would a guy like Verossa avoid getting off'd? He's just too memorable and flashy, not to mention he's a third party / outsider in the biz, like seriously!

He'd get offed. He even admitted himself that combat was not his forte. If due were to confront him, he'd be dead meat unless he ran for it.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

That may be his protection: he'll instantly be missed, leading to massive retaliation.

also, Infinite hunting hounds: Verossa is instantly aware of anything his potentially invisible, unlimited in number scout force is.

Hard to sneak up on.

Due can pose as Carim though. Or anyone he knows, really. You don't need to sneak up on people if they lower their guard.

That, or she waits until he doesn't have his guard up at all. Assassins choose the time and place of killing, that's what makes them so nasty.

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

That may be his protection: he'll instantly be missed, leading to massive retaliation.

also, Infinite hunting hounds: Verossa is instantly aware of anything his potentially invisible, unlimited in number scout force is.

Hard to sneak up on.

Ah, that's right. I forgot he had a veritable army of Unseelie Court "faeries" / Daemon Dog Avengers at his disposal. Tricky little bastard. Though I imagine there is some manner of weakness to him.

[Keroko]

All of this has given rise to a nice idea though... what if Due did send a few of the 'borgs to assassinate Eden? Would make a nice combat scenario.

Though at the same time, it'd create a plothole, since the Cyborgs weren't discovered as an enemy until episode 11, giving me a timeframe of at most a few weeks before the attack on the Ground Force HQ for such an attack...

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by Keroko

All of this has given rise to a nice idea though... what if Due did send a few of the 'borgs to assassinate Eden? Would make a nice combat scenario.

Though at the same time, it'd create a plothole, since the Cyborgs weren't discovered as an enemy until episode 11, giving me a timeframe of at most a few weeks before the attack on the Ground Force HQ for such an attack...

Eh, from my point of view, that's not a plothole. That's EXPANDED UNIVERSE / Scenario EXTRA. It happens all the bloody time in Gundam. And again, Due doesn't have to send the 'borgs. Again, contract assassins will do, or the stealth camouflage gadgets.

[Keroko]

Well, the plothole is that I can't situate the attack prior to episode 11, as the Cyborgs hadn't been identified as part of Jail's army back then, and Eden -being a Cyborg- would sure as hell recognize the Numbers as such.

And after episode 11 there is only a relatively short time before Jail attacks GF HQ, not much time to assassinate Eden, or use, since Jail's need for cover would be gone by then anyway.

[stormturmoil]

also, if Due's highly placed enough, she can potentially get Eden Reassigned.

Assuming Eden does not have reason to be overly suspicious of the orders (EVERYBODY suspects their boss a little bit; that isn't paranoia, it's common sense!), Due could set her up in an area that's going to be under serious attack by Gadget Drones/Zest and co/ Numbers/ contract killers.

at the end of which, Eden will know damn well something's leaked, at least, even if she can't prove it, or does not assume it's an outright set up.

on the other hand, she also has to stick to her orders.

so how does she simultaneously investigate a potential leak in the STAB AND pursue her external investigation into Jail's activities, given she's likely been put in the worst possible place for either By Due's scheming?

simple. She's just That good.

[JamesEdwards]

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

so how does she simultaneously investigate a potential leak in the STAB AND pursue her external investigation into Jail's activities, given she's likely been put in the worst possible place for either By Due's scheming?

simple. She's just That good.

I guess it is true. Spooks sleep with one eye open.

[Keroko]

Actually, Eden has an excuse for not suspecting the TSAB if she gets attacked by hired goons. Eden has a reputation similar to a bounty hunter. To her, being attacked by hired goons doesn't mean someone leaked information, it means that some crime lord doesn't like her and has decided to fork over the money to a group of goons to kill her.

That being said, I don't think Due's position alone could get Eden re-assigned without rousing suspicion. She's a maintenance officer for the brains, not their second in command. She has no authority over the investigation department. She would have to pose as an investigation officer to get such an order across. Hardly impossible for Due, but what's the point? Eden already spends most of her time in lawless areas anyway. Where would she assign her that would make it easier for a bunch of Drones (I doubt Zest would go with this, the Cyborgs have to remain secret until episode 11, hired goons are no reason for her to suspect anything, which leaves us the drones) to ambush her?