2010-01-06, 07:09 | Link #6602 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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2)install someone you trust (or geassed) to continue the peaceful reforms as ruler in your place 3)kill yourself 4)??? 5)profit
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2010-01-06, 07:22 | Link #6604 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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EXACTLY
the problem is that it makes him out to look like a prick he drags the entire world into a war, kills countless people, and abuses the hell out of the entire human race - because of his ego. and THAT (in addition to other things) is why lelouch went from being my favorite character in ep 21 to a character i disliked by the end of ep 22, and utterly hated by the end of ep 23 if i was suppose to be sad when he died, then i'm sorry to say that i wasn't i just stopped liking him by then.
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2010-01-06, 07:32 | Link #6606 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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nothing "justifies" what they did.
to justify doing something you have to have a good reason for doing it the fact that lelouch chooses to do this because his ego wont let him choose any other path (confirmed by side material) does not justify it it in fact, condemns it all the more, because its motivated by ego rather then necessity
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2010-01-06, 11:21 | Link #6608 | |
The black angel
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In Dalaran making laps around the city.
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Consider for a moment that after Lelouch died certain things he did were revealed to the public AND got a really bad PR spin on them to make him look as bad as possible. This is the way the public might see it. Suzaku was the knight of Zero, so it was probably under Lelouch's orders that he nuked Japan and killed 35 million people. Maybe they reveale Geass to the world too. Suddenly you can blame Euphie killing all those Japanese on Lelouch as well. Schneizel nuked the capital of Britannia. Well of course they tell the public that Schneizel did that to try to stop Lelouch. He told Lelouch he would blow up Pendragon if he didn't surrender, Lelouch said go ahead. Obviously a great deal of that is TOTALLY false, but that's how I would spin it if I wanted to blame stuff on him. They may have even found a way to blame Lelouch for some of Charles's actions, make him out to be the evil mastermind behind all the world's suffering. Combine that with a bit of abducting people that speak up against him then spreading false rumors of them being killed, and you have an instant super tyrant! Who knows, maybe Lelouch even coached Suzaku on the sorts of things to say about him. That way Zero himself can be the on to shift all the blame to Lelouch. Thus him being the worst tyrant ever would be just another lie, typical Lelouch deception and manipulation.
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2010-01-06, 12:00 | Link #6609 | ||||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Now, you don't have to agree with him, especially since this specifically includes Zero Requiem, but it at least proves that Lelouch was not intended to be a mere villain. And if a lot of people don't see him as one on the grounds that have already been stated here over and over, that's perfectly legitimate. Quote:
If Lelouch is an evil prick, then Suzaku is a suicidal one. Episode 5 shows how similar they are - partly, they are doing what they're doing for exactly the same reasons, and partly, they have selfish desires and serious issues that make them do stupid things. Suzaku looks more like a stereotypical hero than Lelouch at first glance, but in the end, he's not even one step closer to being a moral authority than his best friend. Quote:
The average Britannian is no more of a moral authority than Clovis. Quote:
Just because it could be worse, doesn't mean it's all right. I highly doubt Zero killed as many innocent people as Britannia did, and he certainly didn't condemn them to a life that might just be worse than death. Those oppressed supported Zero - or at least, about half of them, which is certainly something -, and those not oppressed used to totally fangirl Clovis. While I can't blame them for having taste, it doesn't make them look especially good in this context.
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2010-01-06, 13:54 | Link #6610 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2010-01-06, 14:02 | Link #6611 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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season 2 starts with japan being turned into a giant work camp its people forced to work to the bone, fight to the death to amuse britannians, and even used as merchandise and all because "losers have no rights" this isn't an individual thing, its the way the japanese people are viewed as a whole i may judge lelouch harshly myself but there is no time in which i dont consider britannia to be much worse then him in fact, much of what i dont like about him, may well be a result of the fact that he is a PRODUCT of that society
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2010-01-06, 14:22 | Link #6612 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I guess I specifically focused on season 1, because that's where most of the focus on Britannian tyranny is, even though they become even worse about it in R2. I also could've mentioned Suzaku's moral and empathic myopia that reared its ugly head in R2. And to say that Lelouch was the way he was because of Britannia, past and present, is the understatement of the century. To add to the Zero Requiem discussion, it happened because Lelouch was a broken man. A dangerously uninhibited broken man at that, but a broken man nonetheless. |
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2010-01-07, 00:15 | Link #6614 | |||
Zeonic
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How did Britannia compare to other in universe nations? What little we saw of the EU seems to indicate that they were arrogant cunts, the Chinese as I recall were infamous for essentially being a third world nation, pre-invasion Japan had what may have been an iron fisted military dictator hell bent on taking his entire nation with him in a blaze of glory. As you can see it was a real contest of shining stars...and the real world sure as hell have a pretty spotty record IRL too. Quote:
Britannia was a cruel, uncaring, and nationalist evil Empire cliche, but until it is revealed that it's eco-friendly cities were actually powered by number burning furnaces, I'm pretty sure it's not comparable to NAZI GERMANY. Quote:
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2010-01-07, 00:36 | Link #6615 | ||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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China had poverty as a problem, but they weren't nearly as bad as Britannia. Japan didn't have an iron-fisted ruler, just a prime minister who people followed. And if you find this unusual, know that real-world Japan was almost exactly the same in WW2 (except those "to the last man" elements weren't running the show. Quote:
It was mafia hangout, but Britannian agents were sitting in the middle of the damn thing and didn't give a shit, so it still counts.
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2010-01-07, 04:17 | Link #6616 |
Kalulu YES WE CAN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CALIFORNIA!!
Age: 37
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btw i just realize the word of God
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod Said that Lelouch was dead haha! Wow I am finishing writing my anime paper for the blog but after that i am writing about "Lelouch and the Canon Finish!" haha! |
2010-01-07, 04:29 | Link #6617 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Age: 33
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Don't go there. It will be hell if we debated whether Lelouch is alive or not. Lelouch is dead, unless the creators wants to remake the last arc (I have no problem with R2 except in the last arc), then he is dead. Deader than death itself.
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2010-01-07, 16:28 | Link #6618 | |
~Hi -mi- tsu des~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 39
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Britannia may not be powered by Number burning furnaces, but look at the two massacres in season one. Did any Britannian so much as bat an eyebrow at the thought of razing Shinjuku Ghetto or slaughtering the people in the SAZ? Their methods and reasons differ for sure, but comparisons to wholesale slaughter of civilians can be made. |
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2010-01-08, 00:47 | Link #6619 | |||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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The closest from Charles' description could be that it's direct democracy AKA Switzerland (As it's run by the mob) but that's impossible to do for massive populations. Quote:
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In fact all of them sound bad except for maybe the EEU but they barely had any presence or say in the series. Ironically, while it was Britannia that went all gung-ho against the world and brought war and destruction, it was the only thing that could save the world and bring peace. I mean how screwed up is that? They started out as the "bad" guys and then Lelouch comes in and next thing you know they're the "good" guys. You gotta give the guy credit. In the end, a government's only as good as the guy/girl running it. In each nation there were dozens of guys that fought for what was right (specifically in Britannia where we saw Rolo assassinating many of those senators and others who fought for Numbers' rights) Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2010-01-08 at 01:01. |
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2010-01-08, 01:13 | Link #6620 | |||||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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