2015-11-16, 18:00 | Link #7621 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
^That definition is stupid because that would make any form of non linear story telling a retcon. Giving new information, which effect past events, would be a retcon. Any form of flashback would be a retcon.
Is the relavation of 'shikai' a retcon because Renji used it before? Is 'turn back the pendelum' one huge retcon because it explain the past? Is 'getsuga tensho' a retcon because we only learn later what it was? Is Grand Fisher killing Masaki a retcon because we already knew she is dead? Is a movie like Pulp Fiction just full of retcons? |
2015-11-16, 18:27 | Link #7622 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2015-11-17, 00:50 | Link #7623 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
^So are the examples I given retcons? I'm asking because under the definition they would be. Also how is a flashback not a retcon, if it would provide new information which alter the status quo aka we would need to re-interpret character relationships or events in the overall story?
|
2015-11-17, 08:27 | Link #7624 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
A good example of a retcon from bleach is Zangetsu. We always thought he was Ichigo's sword, now we know he was a fragment of Ywach so when we reread the story we have to reinterpret all those scenes (assuming they work. I haven't gone back and done so myself). The only one of your examples that I definitely think fits is the Masaki vs. Grand Fisher one since we found out she was a Quincy who had her powers stolen that does change the story of Ichigo's mother simply being killed by a hollow. The current retcon involves Shunsui's swords not being a true dual wielding weapon from his own soul since we were already told about it and now it's different. |
|
2015-11-17, 10:52 | Link #7625 | |||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
Quote:
I understand that it is kind of nitpicking of the meaning of 'reinterpretion' but a) a definition should be clear on something like that and not open for interpretations *bad pun* and b) see below: Quote:
Quote:
Also, since when does the intention of the author play a role in this, if it fulfils the definition of retcon it is a retcon, by definition! Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
2015-11-17, 11:57 | Link #7626 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
You're all over the place so I'm going to bow out of this one. I'll just quickly add that saying something is a retcon doesn't mean that it's necessarily bad. If there aren't plot holes, it shouldn't be a problem in a long running series.
|
2015-11-17, 15:18 | Link #7627 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
Ok, but one last question. If there are not the same, could you explain what the difference between a 'retcon' and a 'plot twist' is according to this definition:
Quote:
|
|
2015-11-17, 15:36 | Link #7628 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
Quote:
Like you said, it also has to do with intent and setup. Since Shunsui's swords were never described as being anything but his own dual swords, the setup just isn't there for a plot twist. Instead we have to reinterpret someone having dual swords to mean that they can come from anywhere, not just the wielder of the swords. |
|
2015-11-17, 16:11 | Link #7629 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
Quote:
I'm asking because I don't see the difference. Quote:
|
||
2015-11-17, 16:20 | Link #7630 |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
|
Look at the TV Tropes line quoted above. A retcon requires a change in mind (or at least a settling of indecision) on the part of the author or authors. In order for any of this to be a retcon, Kubo has to have originally had a different idea of how it would go. The term itself is a concatenation of "Retroactive Continuity". It's the meta version of going back in time and changing history. We've seen enough foreshadowing to suggest that Kubo had at least some of these plot developments in mind from the beginning. Given how well it was written (how much it felt like the initial, executive meddling-free Soul Society Arc), the reveal of Masaki's Quincy nature was probably not a retcon. This development with Nanao and Shunsui feels the same, and has been well foreshadowed (Nanao and Lisa's similar appearances hinting at a former Shunsui love interest, Shunsui's flowered kimono hinting the same, Nanao's pointed lack of a Zanpakuto suggesting a special situation, and even Shunsui's often inconsistent Zanpakuto ability).
__________________
|
2015-11-17, 18:31 | Link #7631 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
^I don't know if there's a term for it, but sometimes authors will just make random choices with the intent of explaining it later. There's obviously no way to know for sure, but for example: "I'll draw Shunsui with a woman's kimono. Why? Who knows. I'll write about it 10 years from now."
|
2015-11-19, 08:49 | Link #7634 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Age: 32
|
I always thought that bleach timeline is a mess so for me nothing changes with current chapters
On a different note I think that Nanao having this holy sword and Kyoraku hiding it for centuries is really an asspull and KT just thought of it on the spot. Even if he had it in his mind for a long time and foreshadowed it this Quincy is way out of her league and just some magic sword isn't enough to beat him(he should be way too fast for her to even hit him) |
2015-11-19, 13:43 | Link #7637 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Quote:
I certainly don't disagree that Kubo sucks at foreshadowing, though.
__________________
|
|
2015-11-19, 15:39 | Link #7638 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2014
|
Not directly related to the chapter, but given that we have a litte more info on how old Shunsui is during turn back the pendelum, Yamamoto aged really badly:
One the other hand even 900 years can't tarnish true beauty: Oh Yachiru, you died far to young! |
2015-11-19, 19:08 | Link #7639 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
|
It seems that no matter how mediocre your shounen series can become you will always have a nicely done flashback.
EDIT: By the way, this is where Kubo probably got the Ise Family idea from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise_Grand_Shrine Last edited by MCAL; 2015-11-19 at 20:14. |
Tags |
bleach, chapter |
|
|