Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Justin_Brett]

But then why kill whole villages? I really doubt they need an entire society's worth of kills for six people.

Really, if anything deserves to be nitpicked, it's this damn virus, which probably won't happen in satisfactory detail anytime soon.

[Akiyoshi]

If i remember correctly it was implied that they work part-time as mercenaries, probably they're on a job? Probably they don't have any reason at all to kill those villagers but the person hiring them probably does. They don't care about people's lives, so being sent as mercenaries to anhilate towns would be the same for them as go to the green fields to collect tomatoes.

[Justin_Brett]

That merc thing, too - elaborate on it further than one line.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

BIIIGGGGG difference, it was explained that the escort ships didn't have magic in the walls while the flagship does.

They are floating ships of ice! They can't be made of anything but magic! There are even magical ice constructs coming from the walls! What is-! I! You-!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

*huff huff*

That series never fails to fry my brains.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Plus, Imagine Breaker never made water disappear, that one's on Force

To be fair, all Force showed was a giant ice mountain shattering. It never shows it disappearing entirely.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Why would they have? So far the Huckebein family's shown they don't like to kill unnecessarily.

They blatantly told him they would have killed him. To his face. Right before asking him to join them. I'll take the words of the guys in question over any crazy theory we can cook up.

[fukarming]

After the most recent chapter, I think it is quite obvious that Tsuzuki is opening the route for befriending. The huckebein who stabbed Hayate basically say things that only good guys say. About the huckebeins killing innocent people, so far it is only hearsay - we never actually see the huckebeins slaughtering innocents in action.

[Yasanagi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Someone didn't read chapter seven.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that being offered a place in the Nakajima family constitutes as destroying lesbian ships and curing female homosexuals.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

They blatantly told him they would have killed him. To his face. Right before asking him to join them. I'll take the words of the guys in question over any crazy theory we can cook up.

Honestly, i'm waiting for Karen and Arnage to talk. Fortis, Veyron and Cypha sounbds very unreliable about their true intentions as anyone of them launch a different verion of the concept of their group. As a cheeful and caring leader, i'll think Karen will be more honest about the truth.

Originally Posted by fukarming

After the most recent chapter, I think it is quite obvious that Tsuzuki is opening the route for befriending. The huckebein who stabbed Hayate basically say things that only good guys say. About the huckebeins killing innocent people, so far it is only hearsay - we never actually see the huckebeins slaughtering innocents in action.

That's why i say they're unrelaiable. Veyron tease Tohma about the possibility of being culprit of destroying his village, Fortis deny that, Cypha gloat about salughter an entire village population by herself but we didn't get confirmation about it, we still didn't get Karen's dialogue so it's hard to tell what her intentions are but Arnage at least looks to be worried about Tohma and show to be too entusiast in convincing Section Six that they're unable to help him(like if she was jealous or something). Still can cut the befreinding check for some of them, but Arnage, veyron and KAren apaprently know more about than the rest.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Keroko

They blatantly told him they would have killed him. To his face. Right before asking him to join them. I'll take the words of the guys in question over any crazy theory we can cook up.

Perhaps I'd have to go back and re-read it, but the way I figure it from what I remember, their telling him that they would've killed all of them, him included, was if they themselves attacked the village--which they didn't; they only came after the fact. So I'm assuming had they did find him after the fact, they wouldn't have killed them. Hell, that'd have gotten their hands dirty in the deed regardless of their initial innocence in the incident.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

But then why kill whole villages? I really doubt they need an entire society's worth of kills for six people.

They are mercs. I can imagine that if they were on a secret job, and a village found out about it, they'd kill the entire village so the secret wouldn't be revealed. All that matters is the job.

And yes, hopefully we'll get more information on the virus later on.

Originally Posted by Keroko

They are floating ships of ice! They can't be made of anything but magic! There are even magical ice constructs coming from the walls! What is-! I! You-!

Ice does float. ;p

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Honestly, i'm waiting for Karen and Arnage to talk. Fortis, Veyron and Cypha sounbds very unreliable about their true intentions as anyone of them launch a different verion of the concept of their group. As a cheeful and caring leader, i'll think Karen will be more honest about the truth.

Really? Because I'd think that if you want to get someone to join you, the only reason you'd tell them you would have killed him would be if you were totally honest.

Cause, y'know, telling the guy you're trying to recruit essentially "we would have killed every man, woman and child and scoured the village for any survivor" doesn't really sound like a good way to recruit someone.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Perhaps I'd have to go back and re-read it, but the way I figure it from what I remember, their telling him that they would've killed all of them, him included, was if they themselves attacked the village--which they didn't; they only came after the fact. So I'm assuming had they did find him after the fact, they wouldn't have killed them. Hell, that'd have gotten their hands dirty in the deed regardless of their initial innocence in the incident.

Which kinda still means they would -by their own admission- have killed unarmed civilians. Children included.

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Ice does float. ;p

Ships. Of. Ice. Bows of eyes, stern of ice, windows of ice, cannons of ice, sails of ice, how in the hell can that all work without magic!?

[Justin_Brett]

Really, being honest in that situation is probably not a good idea. It's somewhat telling he thought that was a good plan.

After the most recent chapter, I think it is quite obvious that Tsuzuki is opening the route for befriending. The huckebein who stabbed Hayate basically say things that only good guys say. About the huckebeins killing innocent people, so far it is only hearsay - we never actually see the huckebeins slaughtering innocents in action.

Hm? Could you elaborate?

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that being offered a place in the Nakajima family constitutes as destroying lesbian ships and curing female homosexuals.

Well, that one panel with Veyron cupping Touma's chin in his hand, grinning...and Touma is a shota at the time...

I didn't mean anything in that chapter ruined gayness, just that he can be equally gay.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

They are floating ships of ice! They can't be made of anything but magic! There are even magical ice constructs coming from the walls! What is-! I! You-!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

*huff huff*

That series never fails to fry my brains.

Ahhh! But you see, the constructs from the escort ships were separated from the ships so they can have magic- and those coming up from the ground are from the flagship.

Besides, I said the walls and floors don't have magic, but that doesn't mean the other parts of the ship doesn't

As for floating ice, we all know that ice melts at 0 deg C under atmospheric pressure, but apparently "Under certain conditions however, the freezing and boiling point can be changed. There exists ice at 20 degrees Celsius and steam at 80 degrees Celsius." The 'ice' wouldn't be cold, and it wouldn't melt, and so it's also not slippery.

Originally Posted by Keroko

To be fair, all Force showed was a giant ice mountain shattering. It never shows it disappearing entirely.

If it's a mountain of ice shattering, isn't it possible to it shattered into tiny, tiny pieces of ice crystals where it only looks like it disappeared but they actually just evaporated?

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Ships. Of. Ice. Bows of eyes, stern of ice, windows of ice, cannons of ice, sails of ice, how in the hell can that all work without magic!?

Without trying to get into this too much, it depends on where the magic is. If it's on the bottom of the ship to help it float, the rudder to steer, and perhaps the sails, but nowhere else, you can pilot an iceberg fairly easily. Plus, the anti-magic is only in Thomas hand, so as long as he doesn't touch anything with it, he's fine. And it only affects a small area, too, not the entire ship.

But I'd be lying if I said Index was perfect. I think it's trying to get too complex for it's own good, and introduce too many things that aren't needed.

[fukarming]

So far the huckebeins are contradicting within themselves: If they are as evil and ruthless as they lead us to believe, they should have kill Hayate and Signum. If they are not, why are they gloating about killing innocents and stuff?

I am sure it will eventually be explained, but here is a theory of mine. They are a bunch of antisocial people that hate to explain themselves. I couldn't find a equivalent character in western fictions, so here is a fictional character from my hometown:

He is well known to be antisocial, arrogant, not hesitate to kill, completely disregard the standard moral code of the society, and extremely powerful. Because of his reputation, he is being framed for a murder he didn't commit. Instead of explaining to those who accused him, he chose to fight them, with a plan that he will only explain the truth to them once he beat the crap out of those who accuse him.

In a way, Sesshomaru (inuyasha) is similar in character.

[Keroko]

On the subject of befriending the Hucks, that was apparent in after the 4th chapter. The Hucks have a loli, after all, and first rule of Nanoha: The side with the loli will see befriending.

Might not work on everyone (Fortis at the moment strikes me at someone who could fit in with Precia and Jail as a person who chooses their goals over befriending) but befriending will come.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Really, being honest in that situation is probably not a good idea. It's somewhat telling he thought that was a good plan.

Yes, telling someone "oh, we would have killed you. Want to join us?" sounds like a great plan.

A good plan would have been to tell Touma "No, we weren't involved with that" and leave it at that. Maybe bait him with "but we can help you find out who did." That would have been a good plan.

[Justin_Brett]

That's...exactly what I said, Keroko.

And that doesn't really work, Fuka. Even an anti-social person wouldn't necessarily go 'fuck the police' in the way they have.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by fukarming

So far the huckebeins are contradicting within themselves: If they are as evil and ruthless as they lead us to believe, they should have kill Hayate and Signum. If they are not, why are they gloating about killing innocents and stuff?

Fortis explained why they kill and when, and outside of that, they don't like to kill. It's essentially a code they live by. It may seem a bit strange to us, but they do it.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That's...exactly what I said, Keroko.

Whoops, I thought you meant that Fortis was lying, and only told Touma they would have killed him because he figured that'd be a good idea.

[Justin_Brett]

Here's a thought - maybe Fortis was lying about them having a code at all? The only one who certainly hasn't killed people when she could have is Karen. Maybe it's just something she prefers, and they go along with it because she's the boss.

But not all of them might like it...

[fukarming]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That's...exactly what I said, Keroko.

And that doesn't really work, Fuka. Even an anti-social person wouldn't necessarily go 'fuck the police' in the way they have.

Think of it this way: If Inuyasha and company accuse Sesshomaru of something he didn't do, what would you think Sesshomaru would react? I doubt he will sit down and talk.

About the police thing, they are so anti-social that they do not acknowledge TSAB as police. Consider this, you are wrongly imprison for 20 years and recently released. You obtain the power of superman. You are wrongly accused again. Would you have talk? Or would you have beat the crap out of the police (knowing you can win for sure)?