2006-08-25, 16:45 | Link #61 | |
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2006-08-25, 17:25 | Link #62 |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Is it that difficult to comprehend the fact that people have preferences?
I seen Zeta Gundam before I was exposed to SEED. And I can't say I apprecaited the show. Is it a bad show? Most certainly not. I did not like it due to the fact that Tomino went on a killing spree, most of which were extremely pointless. Its like colonies getting blown up by the dozens in Gundam Wing. Was Tomino trying to convey to me the horrors of war? If he was, then he failed utterly, since I was made numb, not sympathetic. "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." Joesph Stalin If I only get to have SEED and Zeta to choose from, then I'd probably go with SEED. It had characters -I- cared about. Although both series (Seed/Destiny) suffered from a messed up ending (only to be remedied later), the overall character development in both series weren't bad (but it could use an improvement, especially for Shinn). That, and I am not particuarly keen on the 'sacrifice yourself for the greater good' thing. If I was the protagnist, and I worked the butt off, then dammit, I expect to be rewarded! But if Zeta is your thing? More power to ya. If I don't like it? I don't like it. What more is there to say? Oh, lastly... dom33 "cagalli: a failed version of relena." If I was Cagali, I'd take that as a compliment. Relena doesn't do jack except opening her mouth. If it wasn't for Heero and her brother cleaning up all the mess she created, she would not have survived the show. Wanna open your mouth? Fine, rally God's wrath behind you before you do so. Cagali learned that lesson the hard way, but she learned it. Instead of crying to stop a war, bring some Murasame, or better yet, get in a Akatsuki, lead a strike team, and send the traitors back to hell. Go girl! - Tak |
2006-08-25, 17:39 | Link #63 | |
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Tomino does have some strange issues regarding the role of women and children and death in conflict, which is really the only issue I have with his works, he's definetly not altogether there and it shows sometimes in his work. For the most part though Zeta was a great sci-fi epic, but I can't even see a Gundam fanatic like myself calling Gundam an accurate portrayal of war, its a show thats there to entertain and make us think a little bit about some of the issues regarding war, some do a bit better than others. We've got to understand though that the main driving force behind Gundam is to sell model kits, but Tomino and the Hajime Yatate team were capable of turning into so much more a lot of the time. Oh and For the record to dom33, Cagalli is actually one of if not my favorite Gundam Girl, so, I can't side with you there, she actually has guts. To me an argument is instantly lost once you start trying to insult the things that people like as your more likely to have them come back swinging with a vengeance. The only way to lose an argument quicker is with the Hitler comparsion. |
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2006-08-25, 17:57 | Link #64 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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The quote is simply there to illustrate how numb I was while watching Zeta Gundam and Tomino's killing spree. I didn't care, therefore, its not a 'tragedy'. It was a mere 'statistic', with people getting bombed left n' right. They were mere numbers, nothing for me to be sympathetic or sorry for. Unless Tomino wanted to show us some 'creativity' in the art of mass destruction, though I doubt that was the goal he tried to attain. Lastly, instead of comparing Lacus to some random Gundam character, compare her to Lin Minmei instead. I personally see her as a mix of Lin Minmei and Misa Hayase, but thats just me. - Tak (and if there is a better war drama than Gundam? Always look for Macross) Last edited by Tak; 2006-08-25 at 19:21. |
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2006-08-25, 19:22 | Link #65 | |
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Oh and Macross was far more character driven than any Gundam series. There were entire sets of episodes at a time where the Zentraedi decided to leave them alone and the characters sat back relaxed and we learned more about them. I would have loved to be on the Macross's journey. It wasn't really a war though, just people trying to survive against an overwhelmingly powerful enemy. Also Uncle Joe, never heard Stalin called that before. |
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2006-08-25, 19:41 | Link #66 | ||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
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Location: MURICA!!
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Sure, SEED made some of the same mistake. A lot of people died meaninglessly, but it surprised me completely with the death of the three Astray pilots, gotta give 'em credit for pulling that on me. Moreover, the depressing death of Natarle was, imo the best 'death' in the series, because it had style. Despite this, they did not overdo the deaths. Zeta overdone it for me. As for Macross, it was first and foremost a war. The conflict itself might have been totally unfair for the humans, but that did not mean the humans were ready to give in. Instead, they took up arms and resisted. That is a war. After all, what happened in Macross shall forever be known as 'Space War I'. Quote:
- Tak |
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2006-08-26, 01:43 | Link #67 |
The Tall One
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I'm watching it right now, I'm right after Amuro meeting up with the people that were stranded on Earth and he crashes the freighter into the MS (ep. 15ish). So far I've only seen Kamille's parents, Roberto, Monte Blanc, some titans and some grunts (not in that order neccesarily) die. The first real death that actually hit me as solid (other than Kamille's parents, but they died to set up the story).
After Roberto died Char, excuse me Quattro, gave a good mini-sermon to Kamille, about how this is war, he feels bad that Roberto died, but the time for crying is later (something along those lines) and they need to respect his memory by going to space. That I think is what the deaths that I'm hearing about are supposed to mean, its trying to get the viewer to see what it's like to fall into a shell to protect yourself from death.
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2006-08-26, 02:24 | Link #68 |
System/Web developer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Zeta Gundam isn´t bad at all. But it´s not the masterpiece people always claim it to be.
The big plus for Zeta in my opinion would be the interesting characters. /Kamille excluded but Char was great in Zeta and Amuro was handled in a good way.) And the mecha designs are nice aswell. The last few episodes are really good aswell. The big minus is the randomness of the show. Battles, encounters and defections aswell just occur too random. I feel the stupidiest thing in Zeta is when Kamille just walks into the base to talk with Four... And you know. Compared to Char Kamille doesn´t really grow throughout the show. It´s pretty much Char that steals all the spotlight. Kamille remains the same throughout the show. And until the last few episodes the battles are far too easy too read. They begin the same and end the same. So the battles didn´t become really exciting until the end. My favourite Gundam shows would be. SEED, 08th MS Team and Turn A Gundam.
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2006-08-26, 10:44 | Link #69 |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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^ Worse, despite the fact that Karamel awakened from his coma in ZZ, he didn't even return in Char's counterattack. For shame!
And speaking of Char's counterattack, its one of those Tomino murder movies People-just-keep-on-dying-to-the-point-of-numbness (not that its a bad movie, mind you. Love the fights) I think he is trying to change that (his bitterness), evident with that whole 'New Translation' movies. Lastly, I love MS08. Its the closest thing to a war drama for Gundam. - Tak |
2006-08-26, 11:16 | Link #70 |
Hello there
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
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CCA is dumb for what it did to Char after everything he learned in Zeta. I hate that aspect of the film immensely as Char, Amuro and Bright are the only reasons worth watching UC for besides interesting battle choreography. I will blast Zeta till the cows come home because it was an infinite let down, but I do respect the development of Quattro. CCA version of Char, code named "Hey! I'm a bad guy again!" pissed me off so much. Besides that I think it was a decent film and I like the ending to the Federation vs Zeon story line.
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2006-08-26, 16:43 | Link #71 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I don't know how much of a role the order one watches shows in has to do with how much one likes that show. For example, Turn A is the very last Gundam show I have seen so far, but it's still my second favorite (if it hadn't messed up the ending, it would have been my favorite). I think that this criteria is more dependent on temperament. Some people put a lot of stock on originality, and may feel as if a later work is intruding upon their memory of a treasured favorite. Others may not give a damn, and only care about how well a show is executed. It's probably easier to simply put the difference of opinion on Zeta on a case of personal opinion.
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By the way, Obi-Wan, my favorite Gundam show is Victory, and it seems as if it's your least favorite – why haven't we ever had any issues over that?
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2006-08-26, 19:15 | Link #72 | |
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Apparently I'm in good company since I'm told the Victory Gundam DVD set in Japan comes with a foreword by Tomino saying not to watch it.
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2006-08-27, 08:13 | Link #74 |
Pat:TAISAAAAA!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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@mao if you haven't noticed every one has low securitymeasures in a gundam series.
@obi-wan do we have to go thru this again? if you see the last 1/4 of zeta gundam you'll see hints for his actions in cca. i'll talk about char in cca but that's gotten old.
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2006-08-27, 09:21 | Link #75 | |
~Night of Gales~
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Frankly, Char acting the way he is in CCA can be viewed in a skewed way, judging from how his fortitude of pursuing his ambitions of Spacenoids seems secondary to his bitchfight with Amuro. Even so, why the hell he intends to bring Lalah and his Amuro hate into the mix post-Zeta is another thing to ponder about. But that's off-topic. |
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2006-08-27, 11:43 | Link #76 |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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I really did not like Char in CCA. He went completely backwards from Z. I thought he'd learn something, but apparently he didn't.
CCA is another one of Tomino's kill-em-all productions. But the most embrassing 'end' in CCA gotta be Char's. After all, he spent close to a quarter of the movie in Amuro's mercy. - Tak Last edited by Tak; 2006-08-27 at 21:35. |
2006-08-27, 23:28 | Link #77 | |||
Senior Member
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However, Quattro's most significant character growth was to bury the hatchet with Amuro. By the end of Zeta, if he had learned anything, it was that a feud over Lalah was childish, and was better left in the past. To regress a character without providing any explanation is just a sign of terrible writing. Quote:
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