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View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 34 26.15%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 53 40.77%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 22.31%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 6.92%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.31%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.77%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.77%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-01-20, 05:51   Link #81
Skane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
Spoiler:
Shiori's subsequent visits were a result of her desire to see Yuuichi, but what I am trying to point out is that her first visit was for her sister, Kaori.

That was her initial purpose.

The story between Shiori and Kaori is pretty vital to Shiori's arc, and it will be played out in the scenes to come. While Yuuichi is an important main character in Kanon, he is not the end all, be all, central figure in all the scenes. This holds even more true in Shiori's case since her history with him is the briefest of them all. Kaori is the more important character in the resolving of Shiori's arc.

Shiori's objective for coming to school changed when she got to talk to Yuuichi again at the school courtyard. She found him... 'interesting', especially since she enjoyed their initial encounter. That memory will be important and serve its' role in a later scene for a greater purpose; but it is not the reason why she appeared at the school courtyard at first.

As for her reason for acting mysterious, if you have already watched Toei's version, then you should know her reasons for doing it. That reason is part of her quirks( or charms, if you want).

Cheers.
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Old 2007-01-20, 05:57   Link #82
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A thought about why Shiori got a remix of the OP song for herself - i think the lyrics fit her situation quite a lot... especially the last two lines - "She already knows the strength it takes. To smile untill the end..." ... these words describe her current situation so precisely it hurts T.T
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Old 2007-01-20, 06:07   Link #83
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
A thought about why Shiori got a remix of the OP song for herself - i think the lyrics fit her situation quite a lot... especially the last two lines - "She already knows the strength it takes. To smile untill the end..." ... these words describe her current situation so precisely it hurts T.T
You could probably twist things around and make those lyrics relevant to any of the girls.
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Old 2007-01-20, 06:37   Link #84
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I'm trying to say that there's no reason for Shiori to go to school to meet Kaori. It doesn't make sense, especially on that day. She does, on the other hand, have a reason to want to meet Yuuichi. She knows what school he goes to, so she was probably hoping for the small chance that she could. That doesn't mean she was expecting to though.
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Old 2007-01-20, 07:33   Link #85
guuchan
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Shiori's first visit was to see someone, she said so herself, and U1 did ask her who she's trying to meet. This is what she said:

Shiori: ...actually, I don't really know much about that person either.
U1: ...eh?
Shiori: I don't know that person's name, and I don't know which class of which grade that person is in.
U1: You've never met that person before?
Shiori: That at least I have.

So it's definitely not Kaori. Given that she just "bumped" into Ayu and U1 the day before, she was obviously there trying to see if she could run into U1.
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Old 2007-01-20, 09:30   Link #86
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Pretty nice episode, with excellent development on Nayuki's and Ayu's part, especially the latter. I like how different interpretations of what really happened to Ayu's mother or whatever happened to her before because of that could be derived from her worry about Akiko's fever.

Shiori was never one of my favorites, but the way they showed her spending time with Yuuichi and the things she say imply of her desire to spend time with friends like 'normal' people.

It doesn't surprise me now about how Kaori thinks of Shiori. I'm guessing it's just part of human nature, that she would naturally want to reject and refuse the existence of something that seems only to make her hurt. Her words seem to imply a forced rejection of Shiori, especially after that emotional display wonderfully accentuated by the falling snow. In any case, while Yuuichi can be a 'in-between' who might help resolve the situation, whether it ends well or terribly for the three of them also depends largely on how Kaori acts near or during the time where Shiori finally goes forever...
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Old 2007-01-20, 09:35   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
I'm trying to say that there's no reason for Shiori to go to school to meet Kaori. It doesn't make sense, especially on that day. She does, on the other hand, have a reason to want to meet Yuuichi. She knows what school he goes to, so she was probably hoping for the small chance that she could. That doesn't mean she was expecting to though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
Shiori's first visit was to see someone, she said so herself, and U1 did ask her who she's trying to meet. This is what she said:

Shiori: ...actually, I don't really know much about that person either.
U1: ...eh?
Shiori: I don't know that person's name, and I don't know which class of which grade that person is in.
U1: You've never met that person before?
Shiori: That at least I have.

So it's definitely not Kaori. Given that she just "bumped" into Ayu and U1 the day before, she was obviously there trying to see if she could run into U1.
Argh! Tell you what, guys. I'll wait until Shiori's arc is over before I come back to this point. Just keep in mind on who do you think Shiori considers to be the more important person to her.

Cheers.
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Old 2007-01-20, 09:37   Link #88
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Originally Posted by Skane View Post
I am... feeling rather ambivalent about this episode. I am a little upset that KyoAni has more or less 'killed' off Mai and Sayuri, and Shiori's arc has always been my 2nd-least favourite( not to say I don't like it, I just don't find it as compelling as Mai's, Ayu's and Nayuki's arcs respectively( and yes, Makoto is dead last( heh... dead last ))).
As you may know by now I feel the same about the arcs, yet Shiori as character is intriguing, making the best out of her situation. And the episode had lots of cute scenes, such as Shiori hitting Yuuichi with every snowball while missing every single animal in that game. Aside of the "Mai blunder" this was a great episode given the story they have to tell. (In the Toei version Kaori had a bit more motivation for opening up to Yuuichi, which is one of the small differences that I like that version for.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
As Nayuki caressed her pink mug, I visualised her imagining that mug to be Ayu's chubby little neck. That imagery brought a smile to my face. Go ahead, rewatch that scene and pretend that the pink mug is Ayu's neck.
"If I apply pressure using my thumb..."
So where has the "Ayu & Nayu best of friends and sleeping on the same futon" gone so suddenly? It's interesting how these two girls differ: Ayu openly tries to befriend every other girl (she even tried that with Makoto, she likes Mai, and now she encourages contact with Shiori) while Nayuki remains in the background but provides helpful support every now and then (such as the usagi ears for Mai and playing in the snow with Makoto on that girl's last day). Being Kaori's friend she has a plausible role in the Misaka arc as well - I hope she'll be more active this time (making Yuuichi aware of her own values in the process).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Mai and Sayuri 'wrote' themselves out of the story. I'm not happy here, KyoAni! I was hoping that you would expand more on the connections between Mai and Ayu, but you are failing me here. How will this be any better than Toei's version where Mai just disappeared off the face of the Earth until the Ep14 special?
I saw it coming. Making Mai the healer didn't allow her to stay in the scenario. (Looking at the issue from this angle Toei did have a better chance to improve that aspect, so it's a pity they didn't do that.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
There are still 10 episodes to go, but I am already starting to get depressed from the absence of Mai.
Yeah, me too. Nayuki was meant to fill this gap, but given her development so far... and Ayu's overly childish reaction about Akiko didn't significantly improve her character either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
At first I thought Mai was talking about Ayu when she told Yuuichi to 'support her', but then I realised that the context was wrong, and that Mai was not looking at Ayu, but looking away from the both of them. Mai was actually talking about Kaori, a girl who was running away from her problems; and how she would be unable to help Kaori save Shiori because her powers are currently gone. WOW! Mai didn't even need to see Kaori this time. KyoAni has truly made her into an Oracle. On the next episode of Mai's Agony Aunt Special, Mai will instruct Yuuichi to stop being a jerk towards the girl that has always been there for him.
Ouch... you're right, I didn't see that. But isn't this kind of insulting the audience if the story writers introduce such an oracle telling you where to look at next? 2k2 was more surprise&fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
If Akiko's jam doesn't kill him, Ayu's cooking will.
Nothing will kill Yuuichi. Remember he's the 2k6 super hero onii-chan fixing every last problem (I wonder how many girls he will have to marry in the process... who said Kanon 2006 isn't a harem game? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Speculators ahoy! Imprint into memory the scene where Shiori is talking about her first meeting with Yuuichi and Ayu. It is a very important clue that WILL come into play later on in the conclusion to Shiori's arc.
But again we didn't see the thingy that fell out of Shiori's bag, right?
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Old 2007-01-20, 09:48   Link #89
Meophist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
Argh! Tell you what, guys. I'll wait until Shiori's arc is over before I come back to this point. Just keep in mind on who do you think Shiori considers to be the more important person to her.

Cheers.
I was thinking of suggesting that myself. We've seem to have hit a dead-end to this arguement, so let's adjourn this.

That aside, this episode makes me somewhat envious of Shiori.
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Old 2007-01-20, 10:40   Link #90
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Well, time to catch your breath after the previous epsiode before going on to the next episode. I loved Yuuichi & Shiori's 'date' and snowball fight, and I suspect we will see her portrait of Yuuichi eventually.

Ayu's panic over Akiko and how Yuuichi came in to find a sleepy Ayu with her head in Akiko's lap, and mumbling 'oka-san'.

But the scene with Yuuichi and Kaori was exquisite. Yuuichi in the light and Kaori in the dark - very symbolic! But oh! That snow!

You know, I hate this series. It keeps making my eyes leak...
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Old 2007-01-20, 10:46   Link #91
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Originally Posted by Meophist View Post
I was thinking of suggesting that myself. We've seem to have hit a dead-end to this arguement, so let's adjourn this.
One last point regarding Shiori's appearance at the school in episode 2, I feel that this quote from her in episode 16 (from the Static Subs/Eclipse sub) exactly expresses why she was there:

Quote:
"The doctor told me I shouldn't, but there was a dream that I wanted to make come true no matter what.

Go to the same school as Onee-chan, eat lunch in the courtyard together, take the long way home, and talk about what happened that day at home.

Though she laughed when I said that to her... She said it's a small dream."
A small dream that Yuuichi is helping her to acheive...

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Old 2007-01-20, 11:50   Link #92
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Nice epi, I loved when Yuuichi said ~Uguu to Shiori during there conversation and Ayu wasnt there, she's rubbing off on him.

Dang that snow scene at the end was brillant! I watched it twice just cuz I loved the effect so much!
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Old 2007-01-20, 12:44   Link #93
Skyfall
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Originally Posted by Sorrow-K View Post
You could probably twist things around and make those lyrics relevant to any of the girls.
Hm...i don't know.

Mai was not acting happy, was she ?
Makoto...well, given her mental state in the end i find it hard to relate this to her easily.
Nayuki... well, too early to comment, but she is not exactly smiling much as of lately.
Ayu... too early to comment as well, but i think she is going to fit those lines.

With some twisting - yes, it probably is possible to relate them to any of the girls... but as far as we have seen by now - Shiori's case does not require any twisting to relate those words to her directly
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Old 2007-01-20, 15:05   Link #94
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Old 2007-01-20, 16:11   Link #95
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My vote is for..

Spoiler:


Of note, our favorite poster gave this one a "4".
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Old 2007-01-20, 19:21   Link #96
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I gave it a 9. I didn't like how conveniently Mai and company have written themselves out so conveniently of the next few episodes, but the Shiori-Yuuichi date was very sweet.

She was low on my list of favorites in Kanon, but she's done well in this version.

I'm on the side, that believes she was first seen at the school to see Yuuichi. Her conversation to him, makes me believe that at least.
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Old 2007-01-20, 20:41   Link #97
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The Mai and Sayuri sidelining at least made some sense (considering the medical damage) .... to me the faux pas was the total lack of bandages/splints on Mai. This made her hospitalization curious (what exactly are they treating? Her skin discoloration? I would have guessed fractures and nerve damage amongst other issues) --- and I can sign up for her powers being out of whack after that climax for quite a while...

Shiori's date with Yuuichi was quite enjoyable to watch - not much more to say without spoiling her arc.
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Old 2007-01-20, 21:04   Link #98
orion
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The Mai and Sayuri sidelining at least made some sense (considering the medical damage) .... to me the faux pas was the total lack of bandages/splints on Mai. This made her hospitalization curious (what exactly are they treating? Her skin discoloration? I would have guessed fractures and nerve damage amongst other issues) --- and I can sign up for her powers being out of whack after that climax for quite a while...
Well she did take a sword to the abdomen, maybe there's some residual damage that needed healing then she's transferred to the psych ward for therapy. (the real reason for her stay.)

I wouldn't classify that as a date. More like feeling sorry for someone and spending some time with them.
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Old 2007-01-20, 22:25   Link #99
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Of note, our favorite poster gave this one a "4".
Without stating his reasons for it, once again. As cowardly as ever, I see.


Well, so I've finally figured out why exactly it is that I'm always behind the loop when it comes to downloading new subbed episodes; apparently, being located in Singapore entails being located in a "black hole" of European Net data distribution. Which means it doesn't matter how I'm getting it, I'm going to have to deal with slow DL speeds in any case. Just my luck, huh?

Anyway, finally finished watching Episode 16. And as once again, everyone else has snatched my lines, there's not much else left for me to say. Still, some thoughts:

About the Shiori arc. While Shiori's story isn't exactly my top favourite amongst the five (actually, I don't really HAVE one. ), it's the kind of story that I do have a soft spot for. You see, my first forays into Asian "tragic stories" were through works that more or less used the same theme: girl with terminal illness about to die, male protagonist does his darndest to make her last days comfortable and, most importantly of all, happy. It first started with the Korean drama serial "Autumn in my Heart", and then one fine day, I found the VN "Kana: Imouto".

That was a life-changing experience, it was. Catalyzed by the impact that "Kana" had on my life, I started from then on to look out for similar storylines; "Narcissu" was my next find, one in which I'm incidentally still waiting for the release of the sequel. After that, I watched the Korean movie "My Girl and I" when it aired in Singapore; it was this movie that drove me to search for the source material that it was adapted from, leading to the discovery of the spectacularly good "Sekai no Chuushin de, Ai wo Sakebu (Crying Out Love In the Center Of The World), and "Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu (Be With You)". But even then, I remembered while I was reading a review of "Kana", there was someone who mentioned it and "Kanon" and "AIR" in the same breath. Intrigued, I went a-searching for it....to come up with the fact that those two VNs were untranslated, and thus out of my reach for the moment.

However, I also did find a mention of a Kanon anime series that had aired years ago; the anime series I would later come to learn of as Toei's 2k2. So, I watched that one...and while it was a fine enough watch on its own, its storyline didn't particularly stand out to me. Having had some experience in these kinds of storylines, I was puzzled; the Kanon anime seemed to be a fairly generic, not particularly outstanding story to me, so I was wondering; how could it be that with such a storyline, Kanon could receive such accolades as I've seen everywhere on the Net? I could only shrug, and move on to my next find; which incidentally was "Ichi Rittoru no Namida (One Liter of Tears)", a story whose impact was only multiplied by the fact that it was a real story.

Guys, see the pattern in my viewing habits yet? Anyway, not long after that I heard something that made me exceptionally happy; the announcement of a remake of Kanon by Kyoto Animation, complete with 24 episodes and the promise that they'll recreate the story faithfully as it should always have been. Only then did I realize that the Kanon I watched back then, the one by Toei, seemed generic and even mediocre, because it was made that way by Toei.

So, I waited with everyone else for the coming of Kanon 2k6, with high expectations. Expectations that KyoAni would deliver the story faithfully, and that the original storyline was indeed as good as it got all those accolades for.

I wasn't disappointed. Not yet, so far.

As it were, having had a background knowledge of all the storylines through Toei's Kanon, and my own research which turned up a FAQ on the Kanon game itself, I finally had an idea what the original story was supposed to be like. And of all these stories, I liked them almost as equally....but Shiori's story occupied a soft spot in my heart, for it was her story that came the closest to what I had experienced before. A cynical one might say that it just proves a lack of originality (although even that point could be debated), but as for me, I'd say that Shiori's arc holds nostalgia within it for me. And more than anything, that is what I like about it.

In any case, for this episode? I'll give it no less than a 9; the abrupt termination of Mai's involvement in the rest of the story is just too big a flaw to ignore. But otherwise.....excellent.




On another note, we were debating in Episode 14 whether the sisters in Sayuri's flashback were in actual fact the Misaka sisters, were we not?

Well, there was one who said that could not be the case since the younger one looked too much smaller than the older one to justify only being a year younger. And when I said that it's entirely possible due to

Spoiler:


someone else said that her illness only worsened one or two years ago, as far as he remembered, so there's still some doubt about that.

Anyway, both Shiori and Kaori confirmed that the former has had a weak body since birth....which meant the illness had been ravaging her throughout her life. And while I'm no medical expert, and in fact my theory is based entirely on what I knew from "Kana" and "Narcissu", my theory is that having a chronic illness this severe in one's early life has a direct impact on the said sufferer's growth. Both Kana from "Kana: Imouto" and Setsumi from "Narcissu" are said to look smaller and younger than their actual ages no matter what age they were at that time, so I'm thinking it's entirely possible that the same applies to Shiori as well. Therefore, why she looks so much smaller than Kaori in Sayuri's flashback (if indeed it was them), why she looks the youngest of all the other girls in Kanon (despite being only one year younger than most of them), and quite probably why she'll remain small and loli-like when she grows up to be of adult age.

If she survives, that is.

Yes, people. Unlike Toei 2k2, this time I'm not entirely sure that Shiori will survive this time round. Personally, my belief is that Shiori's story is structured in a way that it would become more poignant and full of meaning if Shiori doesn't make it.....it is for the same reason that I believe Ayu would survive, incidentally, for on my part, I believe Ayu's story is structured such that it would sound better if she actually survived.

This would be my personal opinion, so your mileage may vary. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, I'll be happy to oblige...but not here, not in this thread, not now.
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Old 2007-01-20, 22:55   Link #100
panzerfan
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I have seen a total script of Kanon, although it is in Chinese. (The Makoto arc puts me into tears just reading through it) I did go back to it and compare the script to KyoAni variation from time to time. There are some changes here and there even within the Shiori arc, down to Shiori's response to Yuuichi's comment in her classroom. As said by posts above, due to having all the paths done, the chronology in-game cannot really be applied to the anime. Yuuichi in-game used even less tact regarding Shiori's picture... hehe, but anyway.

I can't wait to see what role Nayuki will take in the next episode. I am in agreement with the prior posts that she and Kaori's relationship should mean that she will invariably be involved. Mai and Sayuri being sent off to the hospital makes me feels rather sort of inevitable here, and this is a minimum that could be done for a transition of any sort. (Mai should be getting psychological counsellings... and Sayuri's not looking that bad out of the bloodbath, phew. Again, the worst thing to see would be everybody getting together in the hospital...)
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