AnimeSuki Forums

Honoakari · 2014-10-26, 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

In the end I have to agree with the discussion from before that there should be a restriction on the amount of characters from the same series to compete in one tournament, Saki's case is really off-putting and does not encourage other series' growth. And then if KanColle is any strong next year, it would be a disaster. Also there should be a ban on champion series not to compete in at least 2 years after they win it all, but could make exceptions if there are new contestants to the tournament from the same series.

Problem is, Saimoe is already drowning in all sorts of rules and regulations. More of those will just alienate the fanbases and reduce the number of voters even further.

Team Rocket Elite · 2014-10-26, 03:11

Characters should advance based on merit not because everyone stronger than them was removed from the tournament. If a character wants to take a Top 32 spot from a Saki character, they should have to earn that spot by beating the Saki character. If you want to claim the title of number one during a year, it should be because everyone else was eliminated through the tournament not because the Puella Magi were banned for being too strong.

MartianMage · 2014-10-26, 03:35

Well yeah they need to win by their own merit but a series being able to bring as many participants like Saki is absurd. IMO JAST Saki is the prime example of people voting for it simply because of the series and not the character themselves.

BloodyKitty · 2014-10-26, 03:48

I have no problem with top-tier Saki characters being strong, but weaker Saki characters who have a lot less screen time and importance than those strong characters yet keep winning against other series just because they're from Saki is what's broken to me and discouraging towards new competitors, which also made more voters lost interest and left.

And over-dominant series (directly aimed at Saki and Madoka Magica) are what people have been complaining since 2ch put restrictions of gaijin votes as what butchers the tournament's excitement. Since that point on we can't see really see anyone else besides them taking the top spot of Saimoe again. One of the good things from J-Saimoe (even before "gaijin's influence") is how they promoted newcomer series each year, and this aspect has severely dinimished under the existence of long-time over-dominance. Look at how at the start of the tournament this year there are different preliminary groups for newcomers and veterans, and now we only have 3 newcomers surviving. If the staff truly cares about this problem (judging on the new changes to the tournament they try to make at the start, they do care), either open to let everyone play again (which I doubt they will), or more brutal methods are conducted to keep those series in check.

Triple_R · 2014-10-26, 07:04

Perhaps J-SaiMoe should do something similar to Nova/Stella in ISML.

Break down blocks and competitions to ensure that half of the final 32 are "veterans", and the other half are "newcomers".

Eisdrache · 2014-10-26, 07:34

How would that solve the problem? It would just result in 16 sakis and 16 newcomers.

Triple_R · 2014-10-26, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

How would that solve the problem? It would just result in 16 sakis and 16 newcomers.

No it wouldn't. I'm almost positive that the 5 main Puella Magi would make up 5 of the 16 "veterans". That knocks Saki down to 11 at most. And it may well be less than 11 due to some other strong veterans like Railgun.

BloodyKitty · 2014-10-26, 08:59

^ I don't think MadoMagi will show up again for at least the next 2 years because up until now no new anime material has been announced, and Railgun also, but Saki would show up again in 2016.

And I personally do not want any more over-dominant factions like Saki and MadoMagi to show up in next year, because I want to see how a J-Saimoe without them would truly play out in current circumstances.

Triple_R · 2014-10-26, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

^ I don't think MadoMagi will show up again for at least the next 2 years because up until now no new anime material has been announced, and Railgun also, but Saki would show up again in 2016.

Well sure, but by then KanColle will also be a "veteran" (at least if you limited "newcomers" to mean "very first year of competing in J-SaiMoe").

My point was that if a Nova/Stella sort of system was going on right now in J-SaiMoe, it would leave Saki with a maximum of 11 of the 32 finalists, due to the PMMM impact alone.

And in the future, I doubt Saki would ever get all 16 veteran spots. With any luck at all, there'd be at least one other strong veteran group/contestants involved, even if PMMM isn't involved.

Team Rocket Elite · 2014-10-26, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Well yeah they need to win by their own merit but a series being able to bring as many participants like Saki is absurd. IMO JAST Saki is the prime example of people voting for it simply because of the series and not the character themselves.

I'd say the exact opposite. Since they have so many characters, they cover the entire spectrum of character strength. They have strong characters, medium strength characters and weak characters. There is no guarantee of strength just because you're a Saki character. A prime example of this is Someya Mako. She is a member of the main character team and is among the upper tier for total screentime. She can't even make the main bracket since her characters isn't popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

I have no problem with top-tier Saki characters being strong, but weaker Saki characters who have a lot less screen time and importance than those strong characters yet keep winning against other series just because they're from Saki is what's broken to me and discouraging towards new competitors, which also made more voters lost interest and left.

Just about every Saki character that made Round 2 isn't a minor character. The only real exception is Yumeno Maho who has really weak opponents in Round 1. I guess there's also Tsujigaito Satoha who will be important later but not at the current point in the anime. Voting based on non-anime material is a different issue, though.

Aya Reiko · 2014-10-26, 14:45

Images

Corrected Brackets

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

A good part of Team Saki's strength comes from most of the competition being fairly weak. The same also applies to Team Madoka as well. Excluding Saki, Madoka, and Railgun, only a tiny fraction of characters in the tournament this year are someone who would be remembered next year.

FractalFusion · 2014-10-27, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyKitty

Look at how at the start of the tournament this year there are different preliminary groups for newcomers and veterans, and now we only have 3 newcomers surviving.

There are actually 5 newcomers left right now. Chitoge, Alice, Karen, Sharo and Chino.

Reminder that the draw for the playoff round (FL) is tomorrow.

Eisdrache · 2014-10-27, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No it wouldn't. I'm almost positive that the 5 main Puella Magi would make up 5 of the 16 "veterans". That knocks Saki down to 11 at most. And it may well be less than 11 due to some other strong veterans like Railgun.

Even if that were the case, there is still everything wrong with this. Half of the top32 would still be from only 2 series and the winner would undeniably be one of them too. Let's face it, JSaimoe has degenerated into a 2ch popularity contest and the overwhelming majority of these voters are either in the PMMM or Saki block. The time when JSaimoe was something worth actively following has passed very long ago, but there will be always people who will defend the tournament until death.

FractalFusion · 2014-10-27, 11:15

Draw (schedule/groups) for playoff round:
http://pastebin.com/UhJEYMeu

Spoiler for Draw for playoff round:

BloodyKitty · 2014-10-27, 11:46

Split votes everywhere, Saki is the series who suffers the most out of this kind of match. It's inevitable when you're making half the competitors though.

But split vote between Homura and Sayaka? Funny that we already had the Rebellion movie foreshadowing this. Thing is, who will the MadoMagi choose to get the job done this time? I don't think they could try to go for 1st and 2nd finishers if that Madoka-Homura-Ayase match last year is any indication, and Saki has their chance to take at least one magical girl down in the hand of Satoha, even when she is not among the strongest Saki reps.

Same goes to Saki, since they got pretty strong opponents at this point.

Sad for me that Yui might be the one who will be throw under the bus right after she climbed back up from repechage

.

Hachiko · 2014-10-27, 12:17

Odds have been posted on my blog, as per usual.

hinakatbklyn · 2014-10-27, 12:41

Hmmm..... with only one vote per group, I can see a bunch of splt voting.

Spoiler for Top 32 Estimated Predictions:

TnAdct1 · 2014-10-27, 16:19

If the pairings of the final 32 (which pretty much sets things up for a possible sweet 16 consisting of just Madoka Magica and Saki characters) isn't enough proof of the massive changes that are needed to save SaiMoe, then any chance of saving the tournament in future years is hopeless.

Ithekro · 2014-10-27, 16:28

Or perhaps those are the most moe characters to the Japanese on 2ch. They've sort of progressively excluded everyone else.

ion475 · 2014-10-27, 16:45

Random prediction...

Spoiler for Prediction:

2014-10-26, 03:11	Link #1042
Team Rocket Elite Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	Characters should advance based on merit not because everyone stronger than them was removed from the tournament. If a character wants to take a Top 32 spot from a Saki character, they should have to earn that spot by beating the Saki character. If you want to claim the title of number one during a year, it should be because everyone else was eliminated through the tournament not because the Puella Magi were banned for being too strong. __________________ A miracle that you believe in when you know it won't happen......... is hope.

2014-10-26, 03:35	Link #1043
MartianMage Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006	Well yeah they need to win by their own merit but a series being able to bring as many participants like Saki is absurd. IMO JAST Saki is the prime example of people voting for it simply because of the series and not the character themselves. __________________ Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world! Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute. Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves! Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions. Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you! Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

2014-10-26, 03:48	Link #1044
BloodyKitty Raindrop Melancholy Join Date: Jul 2009	I have no problem with top-tier Saki characters being strong, but weaker Saki characters who have a lot less screen time and importance than those strong characters yet keep winning against other series just because they're from Saki is what's broken to me and discouraging towards new competitors, which also made more voters lost interest and left. And over-dominant series (directly aimed at Saki and Madoka Magica) are what people have been complaining since 2ch put restrictions of gaijin votes as what butchers the tournament's excitement. Since that point on we can't see really see anyone else besides them taking the top spot of Saimoe again. One of the good things from J-Saimoe (even before "gaijin's influence") is how they promoted newcomer series each year, and this aspect has severely dinimished under the existence of long-time over-dominance. Look at how at the start of the tournament this year there are different preliminary groups for newcomers and veterans, and now we only have 3 newcomers surviving. If the staff truly cares about this problem (judging on the new changes to the tournament they try to make at the start, they do care), either open to let everyone play again (which I doubt they will), or more brutal methods are conducted to keep those series in check. __________________ The fact that you cry The fact that you lose your temper The fact that you get angry The fact that you hate The fact that you scream The fact that you suffer The fact that you mourn The fact that you despair Or the fact that you come to a resolution Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12

2014-10-26, 07:04	Link #1045
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Perhaps J-SaiMoe should do something similar to Nova/Stella in ISML. Break down blocks and competitions to ensure that half of the final 32 are "veterans", and the other half are "newcomers". __________________

2014-10-26, 08:59	Link #1048
BloodyKitty Raindrop Melancholy Join Date: Jul 2009	^ I don't think MadoMagi will show up again for at least the next 2 years because up until now no new anime material has been announced, and Railgun also, but Saki would show up again in 2016. And I personally do not want any more over-dominant factions like Saki and MadoMagi to show up in next year, because I want to see how a J-Saimoe without them would truly play out in current circumstances. __________________ The fact that you cry The fact that you lose your temper The fact that you get angry The fact that you hate The fact that you scream The fact that you suffer The fact that you mourn The fact that you despair Or the fact that you come to a resolution Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12

2014-10-26, 07:34	Link #1046
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	How would that solve the problem? It would just result in 16 sakis and 16 newcomers.

2014-10-26, 14:45	Link #1051
Aya Reiko Cutengu Join Date: May 2006 Location: Shameimaru's lap	Images Corrected Brackets Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? A good part of Team Saki's strength comes from most of the competition being fairly weak. The same also applies to Team Madoka as well. Excluding Saki, Madoka, and Railgun, only a tiny fraction of characters in the tournament this year are someone who would be remembered next year. __________________

2014-10-27, 11:15	Link #1054
FractalFusion Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014	Draw (schedule/groups) for playoff round: http://pastebin.com/UhJEYMeu Spoiler for Draw for playoff round: Playoff Round Voters vote one character. Top two of each match advance to knockout stage. 2014/10/30 FL1 Alice Cartelet @ Kin'iro Mosaic OOHOSHI Awai @ Saki Zenkoku-hen ATAGO Kinue @ Saki Zenkoku-hen ONJOUJI Toki @ Saki Zenkoku-hen 2014/10/31 FL2 SHIMIZUDANI Ryuuka @ Saki Zenkoku-hen HARAMURA Nodoka @ Saki Zenkoku-hen NISHIKINO Maki @ Love Live! MATSUMI Yuu @ Saki Zenkoku-hen 2014/11/01 FL3 TAKAKAMO Shizuno @ Saki Zenkoku-hen UIHARU Kazari @ To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S SUEHARA Kyouko @ Saki Zenkoku-hen KAFUU Chino @ Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? 2014/11/02 FL4 MATSUMI Kuro @ Saki Zenkoku-hen KIRIMA Sharo @ Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? JINDAI Komaki @ Saki Zenkoku-hen YUKINOSHITA Yukino @ Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru 2014/11/04 FL5 MIYANAGA Saki @ Saki Zenkoku-hen KIRISAKI Chitoge @ Nisekoi KANAME Madoka @ Madoka Magica Movie: Rebellion Story NAKAGAWA Kanon @ Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai: Megami-hen 2014/11/05 FL6 MISAKA Mikoto @ To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S ATARASHI Ako @ Saki Zenkoku-hen SAKURA Kyouko @ Madoka Magica Movie: Rebellion Story AMAE Koromo @ Saki Zenkoku-hen 2014/11/06 FL7 KUJOU Karen @ Kin'iro Mosaic TOMOE Mami @ Madoka Magica Movie: Rebellion Story ATAGO Hiroe @ Saki Zenkoku-hen MIYANAGA Teru @ Saki Zenkoku-hen 2014/11/07 FL8 MIKI Sayaka @ Madoka Magica Movie: Rebellion Story TSUJIGAITO Satoha @ Saki Zenkoku-hen AKEMI Homura @ Madoka Magica Movie: Rebellion Story YUIGAHAMA Yui @ Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru __________________ Repository for Anime Saimoe Tournament 2014 Last edited by FractalFusion; 2014-10-27 at 14:49.

2014-10-27, 11:46	Link #1055
BloodyKitty Raindrop Melancholy Join Date: Jul 2009	Split votes everywhere, Saki is the series who suffers the most out of this kind of match. It's inevitable when you're making half the competitors though. But split vote between Homura and Sayaka? Funny that we already had the Rebellion movie foreshadowing this. Thing is, who will the MadoMagi choose to get the job done this time? I don't think they could try to go for 1st and 2nd finishers if that Madoka-Homura-Ayase match last year is any indication, and Saki has their chance to take at least one magical girl down in the hand of Satoha, even when she is not among the strongest Saki reps. Same goes to Saki, since they got pretty strong opponents at this point. Sad for me that Yui might be the one who will be throw under the bus right after she climbed back up from repechage . __________________ The fact that you cry The fact that you lose your temper The fact that you get angry The fact that you hate The fact that you scream The fact that you suffer The fact that you mourn The fact that you despair Or the fact that you come to a resolution Cannot prove that you are right. ~Everybody Has the Right to Make Mistakes~ - Quoted from Kino's Journey Vol. 12 Last edited by BloodyKitty; 2014-10-27 at 12:14.

2014-10-27, 12:17	Link #1056
Hachiko The Akita Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Long Beach, CA	Odds have been posted on my blog, as per usual. __________________

2014-10-27, 12:41	Link #1057
hinakatbklyn Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009	Hmmm..... with only one vote per group, I can see a bunch of splt voting. Spoiler for Top 32 Estimated Predictions: (1) Toki > ...... Alice? (Awai and Kinue doesn't appear to be that strong and Saki might want to keep Toki from getting eliminated which means Alice may have gotten a lucky break) (2) Nodoka > Yu Matsumi (Not even close to enough votes for Love Live after Maki advanced. Don't think Maki can take advantage of split Saki voting) (3) Shizuno > ??? (Shizuno should be able to advance. The second choice is too close to call. Suehara Kyouko is not that strong, but might have a lucky draw because Uiharu has to worry about Railgun vote sniping after Ruiko and Kuroko were sniped in repchange and Chino benefited from not losing too many votes in repchange in addition to the Railgun vote snipe.) (4) Kuro Matsumi > Yukino? (A Split between Kuro and Komaki might help Yukino..... although I would rather see Sharo advance with Kuro) (5) Madoka > Saki (If Madoka did help Chitoge advance to the top 32, she can just as easily betray her as well.) (6) Sakura Kyouko > Ako? (Kyouko should be able to advance. Even with a Saki split, I don't have that much faith in Mikoto taking advantage thanks to Ruiko and Kuroko being vote sniped in the group finals and repchange. And the weird thing....... I don't want to see any of the 4 eliminated. ) (7) Mami > Teru? (Hiroe doesn't appear to be that strong, so the Saki votes will likely go to Teru, which doesn't help Karen's chances in advancing. Then again, if I think Alice can break through a Saki split, I should think the same way for Karen.) (8) Homura > Sayaka (I think there are too many PMMM voters for Homura/Sayaka to worry about a split in voting)

2014-10-27, 16:19	Link #1058
TnAdct1 Honya-kun Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clinton, Maryland	If the pairings of the final 32 (which pretty much sets things up for a possible sweet 16 consisting of just Madoka Magica and Saki characters) isn't enough proof of the massive changes that are needed to save SaiMoe, then any chance of saving the tournament in future years is hopeless. __________________ Joseph Klemm My banners at animemusicvideos.org

2014-10-27, 16:28	Link #1059
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Or perhaps those are the most moe characters to the Japanese on 2ch. They've sort of progressively excluded everyone else. __________________

2014-10-27, 16:45	Link #1060
ion475 にこにこにー Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: 国立音ノ木坂学院	Random prediction... Spoiler for Prediction: FL1: 2x average Saki girls, Toki (Who's not as strong as she was) and Alice...I'm picking Toki and Alice FL2: Nodoka and Yuu...next group FL3: Shizu and Suehara. Both defeats strong opponent, and Railgun is going to get shafted. FL4: Yukinon and Komaki. Just b/c they're both Hayamin girls... FL5: Madoka and Saki. Goddess with a Daimaou, leaving Chitoge behind FL6: Kyouko and Koromo. Similar to FL3, I just don't see Railgun going anywhere after they start taking away votes again. FL7: Mami and Hiroe. Hiroe is too strong for Karen IMO FL8: Homuhomu and Yuigahama. Too bad it's not Yukinon here, would like to see a Hayamin girl repeating history __________________